francis1967, you're bein called out.....

brettw22

Francis,

I've received several PM's from people indicating that they have received PM's from you telling them that they are receiving scratched up and damaged product from Fry's (and those of us that have gone out of our way to get these guys some deals) all so that you can sell off some of your speakers. You've also told them their stuff is not covered under warranty. You'd be wrong on all counts.

I don't give a flying FU$K what you have to sell, and when you start acting like this behind the forum's back you can bet your a$$ that you will be brought out in public for this behavior.

Don't you EVER use the flea market as a tool for you to slam other members and their transactions, and if you don't have the balls to sell your stuff like everyone else, keep your $hit at home.

If there's anything in this post that you're not comprehending, you let me know HERE (not PM) and I'll make it CRYSTAL clear buddy......

pjdami

francis,

If this is true (and sounds like it is) then this is not cool. Myself and others stuck our necks out to defend you after one of your very first posts.

What's the deal?

madmax

Seems like a likeable fellow to me. How could this be? There must be an explanation.
madmax

edit: just thinking about it and we have been talking (PM's) recently over the past week about mods. He never said anything like that to me. Actually never mentioned the deal at all. Seems to me he would have if that were his line.
Weird...

Strong Bad

The first one:

John,

I did get a pair from Fry's on these lsi7s and I have to tell you that they are not new a-stock, but refurbished units and the ones that I bought had scuff marks on them. You don't get the 5yr warranty anyways, because you are not buying from an authorized dealer. So there I am with these and BLAH, it doesn't feel good.

I have a pair of brand new A-stock lsi-7s that I can sell you for $290.

I even have some lsi-9s, new that I can do $600. Now that is a speaker with some serious quality. The lsi7s are really nothing compared to them. Honest, the 7s don't have the extension in to the deep end, and they just sound high pitched and thin. Sorry, but have to warn you so you don't get dissappointed. I have owned 3 pairs of lsi7s plus the ones that I am offering you here (they were my stored that I was going to use if I ever got a bigger house with a small private den..).

pjdami

Roger that madmax. Francis and I had a couple of pms a while back and he seemed friendly enough. I am very surprised by this.
Confused as well

Strong Bad

I also have a very nicely used lsi-c center channel speaker.

Let me know if you would like to work something out. I live in CA 92120 and I do UPS Ground shipping at actual cost. Don't charge extra for anything.

I can accept paypal and money order. I am an honest polkie and my Ebay ID is live_to_trade if you want to check out my long list of positive feedbacks.

I am not a seller of Polk, though, and these units are not giving me any profit, at these prices I take a loss. I am now unemployed and need to move stuff for bill-time. I actually bought the lsi-7s for $450 and I thought that I got the great deal back then. The 9s I bought for $900.

Thnx, Mike

Strong Bad

No matter what they tell you on the lsi7s, you won't know what you are getting until they are out of the box and playing.

Not trying to scare you, but want to tell my story about mine that I got at Fry's in San Diego. Luckily they let me return them for full refund even though it was a sale item.

Let me know if you want a pair -stock or my lsi9s. I am very motivated to get these on the road.

Regardless, have a good day.
Michael.

madmax

Well that could just be his experience with Frys couldn't it? I do wonder why he didn't warn me if that was the case though.
madmax

Strong Bad

So, anyone care to elighten me as to who this guy is?

To go on record, there is nothing wrong with the pair of Lsi7's I received from Brett. They look new and play just fine. Very good sound from a small speaker. They're built solid as a rock. Actually, I'm surprised how well built these things are. I hooked them up last night to my system and pumped some juice from my Carver m1.5t power amp into these things. Not a damn thing wrong!

I'll be registering them online for my warranty. Perhaps Micah can shed some light on the Fry's and warranty controversy that seems to be creeping up here.

Brett did a great job in my book!


John

RuSsMaN

I've been through several pairs from Fry's and passed them on to other members.

All were new in box (Polk has not done any 'refurbs' on the 7's per my discussions with Micah). Fry's IS an authorized dealer, and probably just 'stated' these as refurb, so they could make them a loss-leader to get people in the store, and not violate their 'contract' with Polk by discounting the product.

If what has transpired here is true, that's about as **** as it can get.

Cheers,
Russ

madmax

In any case though Brett checked them out before he shipped them. Had they been scratched up he would have taken them back or asked us what we wanted to do. I haven't opened up the second box yet but I'm confident they are fine.
madmax

Strong Bad

Just noticed this:

The lsi7s are really nothing compared to them. Honest, the 7s don't have the extension in to the deep end, and they just sound high pitched and thin. Sorry, but have to warn you so you don't get dissappointed. I have owned 3 pairs of lsi7s plus the ones that I am offering you here (they were my stored that I was going to use if I ever got a bigger house with a small private den..).

Why would you buy 4 pairs of speakers that you thought sounded high pitched and thin with no deep bass extention?

Something that made me say...hmmmm


John

madmax

I just opened up the second box. Oh man, there is a big freakin hole in the back. WTF!

















Oh, yea, that's the power port.
madmax

warviper

I got a pm too I dont know him never talked to him and not going to buy from him. Ill wait for Brett to get tired of his so he can sell them to me for half off.;)

francis1967

Let me get one thing off my chest really quickly because I have just read through this thread and then showed my wife this and we are appalled by Brett22's mean-spirit and loss of respect for others, especially people that are basically strangers where one needs to tread carefully and respectfully in order to get to know them.

Brett22w, you owe me an apology for your very inappropriate and obscene language in your post and that you have begun this flaming of me and my personality and my way of business. You don't even know me.

Anyway, to all you others:

1. I am very new to this forum for "higher learning" with regards to audio equipment. I am home all day every day struggling with a nasty chronic Lyme Disease and I am spending my time trying to learn more about audio and all its aspects. An interest I have, but have never had time to do anything with until now, when I am involuterily stuck at home.

2. I am a very honest fella, 36 yrs old, an active religious family father of high morals and I do try my best to respect my fellow men.

In business, I have done some trading on Ebay and my standing there is perfect through about 400 transaction with all positive feedbacks where people say that I have done everything possible for their experience and items to be completely 110%. I would have given you my Ebay ID so you could see for yourself, but now I am afraid it would be abused by some people here out to hurt an amateur fellow-polkie.

3. As an amateur I try to learn as much as possible and I think that all you folks have seen my questions here and that I have fair and honest in my email and dealings.

I have asked Madmax if I can buy one of his mods if he ever has another for sale in the future. I also told him that I bought one today from another source because I have no player. I also told hime that I would keep my word to him and still buy one from him if he ever got one for sale.

I have bought some subs here from another Brett...I think he was SuperBrett. He had two for sale. I talked to him today and I have already written out the check for mailing tomorrow.

I have asked only fair pricing for all my Lsi speakers.

There is nothing in my appearance that, when fully understood, is wrong or dishonest. NEVER THINK YOU KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT SOMEONE - MAKE SURE YOU KNOW, NOT THINK. ASK ME...

4. Yes I did pm several people on a thread where another polkie was selling two pairs of lsi7s. Reason: there were more than 2 people interested and brett22 didn't have enough pairs to satisfy all as they were already sold when they posted their replys.

Here is what happened to me with FRY's Electronics in San Diego.

I bought my set of LSI speakers way before the Fry's extravaganza. Earlier I had purchased what I thought was an awesome set in 2 lsi9s 4 lsi7s (one pair in storage for that day when I could get into a bigger house..) and the lsi-c that you all know I have for sale. I got them home and I can't play them the way I want. If I play at low levels, these lsi's just won't blossom the way they are meant to...if I play too loud my neighbors complain (thus my thread about asking you guys for help and I got GREAT tips on what to do..). My lsi7s sound flat and lifeless. Sorry fellas. They do!! Perhaps they need more break-in but I have had them up now for about 10-15 hours and they still sound boring and not even close to their bigger brothers...the lsi9s. The lsi9s sound beautiful and are probably some of the best speakers I have ever had the honor of owning. The lsi-c just doesn't allow for it to spring to life because I can't play it loud enough.

Herein lies my experience with Fry's....

After having listened to several of you, I decided that I might try using two lsi7s for center channel and I ran down to Frys to get a set on this sale and when I got them home and opened the box, they were scuffed...well, correction, the left one was scratched on the piano glossy top plate. I went back to Fry's and complained. That is when I was told that they were sold as refurbs of course and that it was common that refurbished products could have cosmetic blemishes etc. I BET THIS GUY HAD NO IDEA ABOUT IF THEY WERE NEW WITH REFURB LABELS OR NOT. He did his job to the best of his knowledge and I didn't know better either at the time. I told him that this was not acceptable and I got an in-store credit. Yeah, that's right guys - I didn't get my money back, only a credit towards future purchases because Frys state that refurbs can be scuffed up. Besides, THIS IS THE GUY THAT SAID THAT THESE POLKs WERE NOT COVERED BY WARRANTY LIKE NEW ONES...this isn't something I have made up. If he was wrong, so have I been and for this I apologize. I acan only assume that the employee selling Polk has been made aware of policies concerning the products he is selling. Besides, if I understand correctly, one has to fill in the warranty card and send it in or fillon out online for the warranty to be valid? DOesn't really matter. I was told there was no warranty and I was also told by another Polk dealer that Fry's were not authorized dealer of Polk. Now I have to think that he was only trying to push his own products on me and dissing Fry's.

So I bought some R50s but they are too boomy so I am still looking around and hopefully I have found some RT1000i's that might work for me.

ANYWAY, this meant I have to sell my initially purchased lsi's and thus I posted them here. I have the balls to list them and I have done so fairly. Read them for yourselves. My unused pair of lsi7s are A-stock. I paid close to $500 for them. My lsi9s have only the 10-15 hours I put on them as I bought them from a guy that said they were never used, just stored, and I took his word for it.

5. This should explain why I had two pairs of lsi7s and why I wanted a third pair as center ch speakers.

Yes, I did warn in my pm's that these lsi7s sold at Fry's were refurbs. I NEVER SAID THAT BRETTW22's speakers were damaged. NEVER did I insinuate this. I have my own experience at Fry's and it is only fair to say that this is not a pleasant situation to get home to and when they buy here, there is USUALLY no return possibilities....how can someone buying these from Texas, have them shipped to say Michigan, find that there is something wrong....read. my experience at Fry's ...and then want to return them. OR do you all offer full returns if not happy and full refunds? Of course not. We have to trust eachother.

I can only say that I am very happy to hear that those of you that have bought here have got good units. AND if you hadn't, it wouldn't have been Brettw22s fault either as he purchased these in good faith and passed them on with hard work for us others to enjoy. Mine however were damaged.

Perhaps I should mention that the new lsi9s I bought, one had a broken crossover so I went to Polk (I only live 20mins away from their production here in San Diego..) and had them put in a new one. I paid $60 for this...cost of the crossover and they were very nice and charged nothing for labor.

So guys, if you want to harrass people, please care to ask before you smear someone. I don't backstab, I don't go behind people's back (pm'ing isn't going behind your backs..), I only tell what I know to be true. Now, I too, understand that it is only as true as your last source to the info and if is incorrect then I am as well. Only done in good faith.

If you are a tight-knit family here and want to keep it that way, fine. I am not used to boards like this, so I would be a very easy target for anyone that would abuse the fact that I am quite the gullable fellow.

If I have offended anyone, I am sorry. And to Brettw22, consider to be better informed next time before you blatantly try to crush some other newbie. I guess this will come to you more naturally with age and more experience with kind people. I can only assume you have been very hurt before in your own life and want to take it out on others. I am sorry about this.

Sorry guys, I feel very frustrated.

I will retreat now and you probably won't see much of me in the future. I take things like this very personally and it makes me sad and very uncomfortable. I appreciate all the good feedback I have received from many of you. I will make good use of it.

Sign.
Michael W.

francis1967

I want to thank several of you that have written me outside this forum. I understand now that what I am going through here is nothing new and that it has happened to several people before me.

What gets me is that it seems to be the same core that start this process of slandering. Btw Brettw22, your signature says "We're not here to change you.........We're here to make you better."...perhaps it is time to change this as you are certainly policing this forum firmly in a very inappropriate manner and you are certainly trying to change people...you tried to change me here for one, but as I have more respect for people than that, your attempt was futile. I will not lower myself to your standards.

Besides, if I was doing something wrong it would be the moderator of this Polk Club to question my moral and my behaviour and not you, Brettw22. Surely you know this as well.

This whole ordeal is very sad as the forum as whole is very useful and darn helpful to someone that is in the embryonic stages of learning about audio. I have enjoyed it thoroughly in spite of this last issue.

Btw. I don't sulk...this is not about sulking. I just don't need this and I don't have time for this kind of unfounded slander. Several of you wanted to know the whole story. Well now you do. That's it. Finished. You don't even have to make further responses to this thread. I am not going to respond any more and as far as I am concerned, it is water under the bridge. I won't even hold Brett22 accountable. I have gotten release for my frustration and I am all good. He didn't know better and I won't hold it against him.

Oh and to you that made me aware of this thread in the Fleamarket, thank you.

Michael.

francis1967

Bullocks, I can't get any sleep here. I just cannot stand animosity. Brettw, you made me angry (I very rarely get angry..) and I gave a few remarks in my replies above that I otherwise would never have done. My bad. You are probably a great guy, although first impressions left much to be said.

Be easy on the newbies because you will scare them away with ditto behaviour. Leave it to Justin to sort things out if need be.

All good?

Hope so.
Michael.

F1nut

Damn, you can write!

Michael, if you stick around I think you'll find this is a good place with people trying to look out for each other. Anything that seems usual gets our attention. I don't know you and I'm not passing judgement, just tread lightly until we get to know you and I think everything will be alright.

F1

VR3

Originally posted by F1nut
Damn, you can write!

Well, at 3am...most people can write novels.

AsSiMiLaTeD

don't have much time, so a couple of quick things:

- it's never a good idea to interfere with another sale. If Brett was trying to hook some people up and you start emailing people saying that the stuff he is selling may be crap, I'd say that's pretty inappropriate. Even if you didn't directly say that the ones HE is selling are crap, you know he's selling those from Fryz, and you say the ones from Fryz are crap...that's pretty much saying the ones he's selling are crap. If you don't mention that to try to convince someone not to buy those, then why???

- your statement that it isn't appropriate for US to bring things like this up, only the moderator is simply wrong, but you'll learn that in time. The normal Polkies do as much policing here as the mods do...it's how we look out for each other...

- lastly I really don't think Brett responded all that meanly - I've seen worse - you gotta look at it from his standpoint. Think about how mad you were when you read this thread last night, I'm sure he was just as upset if not more so when he first heard what was going on...

Again, it appears that you didn't have ill intentions...but what happened is a no no and it certainly didn't look good , at least on the PMs we've seen...

And I'll echo F1nut's comment here as well...

fireshoes

In my opinion, even if the PMs were done in good faith, it comes across as shady because you stand to profit from it. The correct thing to do would be to post in the "LSi7's for $200" thread about your experiece when the thread was first posted, and then Brett and Russ and whoever else picked up the speakers could inspect them. As it turns out, they did anyway so it's a moot point.

In the third PM John posted you stated that you got a full refund even though it was a sale item. Here you say you got in-store credit.

You also said, "I even have some lsi-9s, new that I can do $600. Now that is a speaker with some serious quality. The lsi7s are really nothing compared to them. Honest, the 7s don't have the extension in to the deep end, and they just sound high pitched and thin. Sorry, but have to warn you so you don't get dissappointed." However here you said,"I got them home and I can't play them the way I want. If I play at low levels, these lsi's just won't blossom the way they are meant to...if I play too loud my neighbors complain," which seems to me would have been pertinent imformation to include in the PM to John. It makes it appear that you were just trying to unload your 9's at that point.

I think your dealings here have some inconsistencies and all-in-all seem inappropriate, if not underhanded.

francis1967

Fireshoes, if you can see the glass half-full instead of half-empty, kindly stop your phsych analysis of me. If you want to pin me as the bad guy, I am sure you will succeed with that as well, but it isn't very beneficial in righting a wrong, now is it?

I thought I was being nice by offering the good people in this forum a chance at lsi-9s with 15 hrs on them at $600, but I guess I was wrong.

Where did this get lost in the big picture?

Because if you are looking at every single little detail, I am sure that we are all at fault some time - somewhere - to someone. Keep looking, I am not error-free. I have shown that already, haven't I? But then again, he who is without sin cast the first stone....you seem to be good at that around here.

Don't tell me the 7 can stand up against the 9 because it isn't so, regardless of how good the 7 is. It is worth the $300 extra, but that's ok. I am sure I will find someone who will be very grateful to get this set at a good price. I didn't join this forum to sell stuff, I joined because I wanted to learn.

All that joy has pretty much disappeared now though.

Take a breather...go pick on someone your own size....move on...start another thread....here, I'll help: In what way will the death of Ronald Reagan influence the 2004 elections in a more profound way than the Iraq war?

Of course, it might be your intent to punish to the point where I leave, never to return. I guess I should consider your motive here.

I meant no harm. Analyze THAT all you want.

PolkThug

Originally posted by francis1967
What gets me is that it seems to be the same core that start this process of slandering.

This sounds like somebody..... xxxxxxxxxx1968


Am I the only one thinking this???? Not saying I'm right, it's just the use of the word "core" and the name.

RuSsMaN

No it's not BW, not even close.

Francis1967 seems to have a firm grasp on the King's English.

PolkThug

lol

pixiedave

Originally posted by PolkThug
This sounds like somebody..... xxxxxxxxxx1968


Am I the only one thinking this???? Not saying I'm right, it's just the use of the word "core" and the name.

no way he is to literate. but still????

phoneisbusy

I doubt bullsy could compose a complete sentence let alone several messages without at least some spelling mistakes and gramatically errors. I know I can't...

francis1967, the group here has a very low tolerance with anybody with any appearance of ill intent when it comes to the flea market. This may not seem fair especially to new members who aren't familiar with the Polk forum etiquette but some bad experiences with new and old members have shaped this response.

Hang around. Lurk a bit. Post a review and ask some questions. Learn to use the ignore feature for people you don't care for. The knowledge (audio and non audio) and banter around the fourm can be priceless/entertaining/salty/juvenile/all the above.

regards

Dave

brettw22

With all due respect for your health Francis, I'm not going to write you a free check because of it. I'll take that information and put it to the side since it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what's been done here.......

You saw all the people that were wanting to get a pair of the LSi7's, knew you had some you wanted to get rid of, and wanted to off them to as many people as you could.....In and of itself, not bad.

You PM several people telling them that what they are getting from Fry's are beat up and have zero warranty (while everyone else that's been out getting these has said otherwise). Regardless of what you'd been told from your local salesperp, that was wrong.

No matter what they tell you on the lsi7s, you won't know what you are getting until they are out of the box and playing.

This REALLY pisses me off, and you had better understand why. You're telling John (who you sent the email to) that I'm a liar when I told them the condition of the speaks and how they played. If you'd be content for someone calling you a liar, that's on you. I'm not, and that's one reason why this thread exists.

Yes I did pm several people on a thread where another polkie was selling two pairs of lsi7s. Reason: there were more than 2 people interested and brett22 didn't have enough pairs to satisfy all as they were already sold when they posted their replys.

You PM'd 2 out of the 3 people that I had speakers for. Don't you DARE try to act like you were out to do favors by using the method you've used here. You insult everyone's intelligence here by suggesting your behavior was anything more than greedy.

Is your situation at Fry's universal to everyone on the forum?
Nope.

Should you use YOUR situation at Fry's to try and scare others out of their dealings to make yourself some cash?
HELL NO, and you (or anyone else) WILL be called on this kinda BS EVERY time.

Should you try to sell to people only through PM's knowing that they're in the process of making other purchases?
NO, and if you don't see how shady that is, then you probably shouldn't try to sell anything here again.

YOU owe the apologies here, not me. You will not see an apology from me here as I have no reason to. You will also come to know, if you don't already, that I have zero sympathy for those that feel that the forum owes them some big <<AWWW>> because they've decided to throw themselves on some victim train, ESPECIALLY when they're throwing that in our faces to gain sympathy for something they've done that's shady.

If you have stuff to sell, open a thread. DO NOT EVER PM someone that you KNOW has a deal going on and try to underhand the other person. THAT IS WHAT YOU'VE DONE HERE, and I'm not excusing it AT ALL.

I'm actually even more curious now about how many people total received PM's from you pitching your stuff like this. I'm gonna bet it's a lot more than just the 3 that have mentioned it here....I'd also bet that it was to several of the people that had already committed to buying what those of us bought from Fry's (as a HUGE favor) already.

One last thing.....I hope you get past your "appalled" state of being here. We (as a forum) don't let people slide by on anything like this. Know that we don't do it now, and we won't let it slide in the future. If you doubt that, try this little stunt again and see what your reaction is to my response then......

EDIT:

you tried to change me here for one, but as I have more respect for people than that, your attempt was futile. I will not lower myself to your standards.

This comment of yours speaks VOLUMES about your behavior here. As I understand this comment of yours, it's ok for you to underhand another transaction, but it's not ok to be caught doing it and called out on it.

Wanna justify that one away buddy?

PolkWannabie

Francis,

For a variety of reasons I won't go into here it's always best, especially for newbie sellers here, to offer stuff for sale in the Flea Market as opposed to via PM as you can see the sort of stuff that ensues when you don't.

So if you got stuff to sell ... offer it up ... put a price on it ... supply pics and let's move on.

brettw22

Originally posted by francis1967
Take a breather...go pick on someone your own size....move on...start another thread....here, I'll help: In what way will the death of Ronald Reagan influence the 2004 elections in a more profound way than the Iraq war?

It is funny that his suggestion to start a thread is b-lined right into the political forum. Kinda telling..........

hoosier21

Originally posted by brettw22
Should you try to sell to people only through PM's knowing that they're in the process of making other purchases?
NO, and if you don't see how shady that is, then you probably shouldn't try to sell anything here again.

100% correct Brett