LSi7's on the chopping block

ALL212ALL212 Posts: 1,110
It all started when @msg mentioned the 'naners I was using were a bit soft and to be careful with them...sure as heck, bent a bit.

I'd planned to do the crossovers in these anyway but this caused me some internal strife so under the knife they go.

I'm going to remove the bi-wire option and I want the naner jacks facing down. I had these Cardas speaker terminals from a prior project that didn't need them and with a 1/2" drill modified the existing panel to fit them. Ya, they are a bit long but they'll work. Disadvantage...all that copper acts as a very nice heatsink when you're attempting to solder. Not a good thing. I'll plug the other 2 holes.

Parts were shipped today, stay tuned...

lvolq27rbahf.jpg

epa78fl6ekl9.jpg

Aaron
Enabler Extraordinaire
«13

Comments

  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,127
    Is that akin to dropping a V-8 into a Toyota Corolla ?

    vvvy2ewzvamz.jpg
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  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,127
    Good luck with them, I dig what your doing though.
    HT SYSTEM-
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    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
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    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • msgmsg Posts: 4,944
    Yeah, that inverted-angled speaker terminal thing sucks when you're using conventional bananas. Perfect for spades and bare wire. Or angled bananas.

    Curious to see this crossover build out and the end result. I like LSi7s, but I've always found them to sound a bit lifeless and a flat until I got some volume going to them. Can't really say why, but they sure paired nicely with an old Realistic STA-84 25wpc receiver. I used that setup to listen to a few local public radio programs and it made for some great atmosphere.
    I disabled signatures.
  • dromundsdromunds Posts: 8,135
    I think those may have been my 7’s awhile ago and I’m glad you’re doing what you’re doing. I always liked the 7’s ( and the 9’s) and found they’re like the Beatles said, the love you take is equal to the love you make - or something like that, lol. Feed them real good power and they’ll give it up, I liked them with my tube system. They are one of the best values out there on the used market and a prime candidate for taking to a higher level especially if you do quality work yourself. Add a good sub and there you go. Will be very interested in the progress.
  • ALL212ALL212 Posts: 1,110
    tonyb wrote: »
    Is that akin to dropping a V-8 into a Toyota Corolla ?

    Seems to easy - we're going to put this in a Toyota Corolla.
    5j6t7phqf6vr.jpg

    F105 "Thud" engine. I was stationed at Eglin AFB in 1980-1981. Heard a pair of these takeoff from 100 yards away. No joke - the ground shook. Loved every minute of it - bass from any 100 of you guyses speakers - not even close!
    Aaron
    Enabler Extraordinaire
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 31,127
    Are the crossovers your rebuilding going to be "Trey" like ? Hence my analogy. :)

    Be interesting to see how far the performance can be pushed on those 7's.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • mac71mac71 Posts: 6
    Nice , interested to see what you come up with.
  • ALL212ALL212 Posts: 1,110
    As soon as the parts arrive I'll see if I want to embarass myself with what I bought or opt out and just pretend this never happened. I've strayed from the Trey version but it will be similar.
    Aaron
    Enabler Extraordinaire
  • dromundsdromunds Posts: 8,135
    DO IT! You're saving all the labor costs. >:)
  • daboyzdaboyz Posts: 4,910
    6sj1z3xe5b5j.png
    HT - Polk Lsi9, Lsi7, LsiC, Marsh A200s, B&K ST-1430, Pioneer Elite BDP 62FD, Marantz SR7008, Martin Logan Dynamo, NHT CS-10, Mogami 3103 speaker wire, Mogami 2534 IC

    mini HT - Samsung 46" 3D TV + 3D Blu ray player, HK AVR 254, Infinity SL40, Audioengine B1
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 20,822
    ALL212 wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    Is that akin to dropping a V-8 into a Toyota Corolla ?

    Seems to easy - we're going to put this in a Toyota Corolla.
    5j6t7phqf6vr.jpg

    F105 "Thud" engine. I was stationed at Eglin AFB in 1980-1981. Heard a pair of these takeoff from 100 yards away. No joke - the ground shook. Loved every minute of it - bass from any 100 of you guyses speakers - not even close!
    That’s nothing... feel the ground shake when an SR-71 turns and burns, then come talk to me. B)
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

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  • ALL212ALL212 Posts: 1,110
    Did that too! Sitting on the tarmac on Okinawa with an unexpected delay. Basically the same results - ground shook, black streak went by and the show off just pitched up and disappeared.
    Aaron
    Enabler Extraordinaire
  • ALL212ALL212 Posts: 1,110
    Nervous?

    c364n3glkt4y.jpeg

    bakzb4vjg4u3.jpeg
    Aaron
    Enabler Extraordinaire
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,292
    I'll be curious to hear your impressions with those... The Dcr will be drastically different
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

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  • dromundsdromunds Posts: 8,135
    That’s what I’m talkin’ about
  • ALL212ALL212 Posts: 1,110
    Yep, Dcr is almost nothing with the film inductors.

    This has been done before with good results. Just not on these.
    Aaron
    Enabler Extraordinaire
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,292
    I have thought about using lower DCR inductors (like reducing each one by 30% as an example). I know of a company that did the lower DCR in modifications and I received multiple emails about them being returned due to them sounding "off". Not discounting what you are doing, just curious as to your outcome. Will be staying tuned!
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • ALL212ALL212 Posts: 1,110
    Woofer
    f4t37gr817ng.jpeg

    Tweeter
    zprk3yvnz96q.jpeg

    I’m using the same wire that they came with to connect the speakers to crossover . They are already terminated.
    Aaron
    Enabler Extraordinaire
  • ALL212ALL212 Posts: 1,110
    Now that I've seen what I have and can fit parts (you'd probably think you should size parts before you buy...nah...no fun) in here's da plan.

    These parts are exactly the same brand that my Lorelei's have in them. Sonic cap, Mills resistors and Goertz copper foil inductors.

    The big 1.2 mH (yep, I said 1.2 not 1.3) sits in the bottom of the box secured with industrial strength Velcro. 1.2 because a 1.3 isn't available. This puts me .035 mH out of spec. I think we'll just live with that.
    msm7wu75nsd6.jpg

    The tweeter resistor (2.5 ohm) and 1st 12 uf cap live in the basement along with the woofer tweeter (.47 ohm , yep, not .5. - .005 out of spec).
    1mzl7oky7sre.jpg.

    Leads for the 12uf cap and the .47 resistor are poking up through holes in the substrate to attach to the upstairs components.
    jaf2wppe2spx.jpg

    There is still some "fiddling" to do to get those upstairs components in the best positions and avoid any additional wire. I'm guessing I'll need something on one leg of the .15 mH inductor.

    I took the stuffing that came in the box and put it in the very top of the cabinet. I've take a bit of additional and wrapped the back of the woofer and both sides. If this really sucks it's easy to remove. No ports were blocked during this install.

    Should the sound be ok I'll also secure most components with hot glue. The sticky tape works well for layout but I don't expect it to hold forever.

    All inductors should end up off axis including the woofer speaker coil.

    Sonic Craft outdid themselves. I asked for the cheapest matching (L1 I believe). All 4 12uf caps are within .01 and the 16.5 uf's are exactly the same.

    I quit here last night. I've tried working late into the night on these but in the morning would wake to find a mess.
    Aaron
    Enabler Extraordinaire
  • dromundsdromunds Posts: 8,135
    What's the burn-in time on those Gen I's?
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,092
    You Da man!

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • ALL212ALL212 Posts: 1,110
    dromunds wrote: »
    What's the burn-in time on those Gen I's?

    I'd go 100 hours, maybe a bit more. They don't need crazy lengths like Mundorf do.

    For your collections - a good link for tweeter reviews:
    http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/

    And the tweeter is probably a Vifa (now Tymphany by Peerless) XT25TG30-04 with a custom face plate.

    Can't locate the woofer yet.
    Aaron
    Enabler Extraordinaire
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 13,767
    I'm glad you bought those copper Cardas binding post. You're my guinea pig beta tester. ;) I wanted to use those but Jeff at Sonic craft emphatically said "NO! stay away they corrode horribly" I could never find anyone who had used them to ask. I took his word when he stated that they turn green or very dark brown just sitting on the shelf.

    Looking good Aaron
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,092
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I'm glad you bought those copper Cardas binding post. You're my guinea pig beta tester. ;) I wanted to use those but Jeff at Sonic craft emphatically said "NO! stay away they corrode horribly" I could never find anyone who had used them to ask. I took his word when he stated that they turn green or very dark brown just sitting on the shelf.

    Looking good Aaron

    I have the same binding posts on my Pass Aleph 30 and never noticed any more corrosion than any other binding post. Now I need to examine them to see...lol

    H9

    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • ALL212ALL212 Posts: 1,110
    I think I mentioned I got those binding posts on sale. There is a short version also. Totally a **** to solder to as there is a lot of copper there and it's a great heat sink. As to corrosion? Can't speak to that. They've been in a plastic bag for a couple of years now and show absolutely none - but they were in a bag.

    Would I buy them again...nope.
    Aaron
    Enabler Extraordinaire
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 13,767
    edited March 15
    heiney9 wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I'm glad you bought those copper Cardas binding post. You're my guinea pig beta tester. ;) I wanted to use those but Jeff at Sonic craft emphatically said "NO! stay away they corrode horribly" I could never find anyone who had used them to ask. I took his word when he stated that they turn green or very dark brown just sitting on the shelf.

    Looking good Aaron

    I have the same binding posts on my Pass Aleph 30 and never noticed any more corrosion than any other binding post. Now I need to examine them to see...lol

    H9


    Well Brock I would expect them to tarnish more so than gold or silver, that being said I was going to put shrink tubing over them as I only use banana's anyway. Jeff said it wouldn't matter so I took him at his word. I figured he does this as a business and would have more experience than I would in this aspect.



    ALL212 wrote: »
    I think I mentioned I got those binding posts on sale. There is a short version also. Totally a **** to solder to as there is a lot of copper there and it's a great heat sink. As to corrosion? Can't speak to that. They've been in a plastic bag for a couple of years now and show absolutely none - but they were in a bag.

    Would I buy them again...nope.

    Yep I too seen they were much cheaper and I was not going to solder to them anyway. A while back I had some Cardas RCA's I was having trouble soldering to. I gave Cardas a call for some help the guy told me to pre-heat with a propane torch. Lets just say I was not prepared to hear that :smiley: but it worked great.
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,092
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    heiney9 wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I'm glad you bought those copper Cardas binding post. You're my guinea pig beta tester. ;) I wanted to use those but Jeff at Sonic craft emphatically said "NO! stay away they corrode horribly" I could never find anyone who had used them to ask. I took his word when he stated that they turn green or very dark brown just sitting on the shelf.

    Looking good Aaron

    I have the same binding posts on my Pass Aleph 30 and never noticed any more corrosion than any other binding post. Now I need to examine them to see...lol

    H9


    Well Brock I would expect them to tarnish more so than gold or silver, that being said I was going to put shrink tubing over them as I only use banana's anyway. Jeff said it wouldn't matter so I took him at his word. I figured he does this as a business and would have more experience than I would in this aspect.



    ALL212 wrote: »
    I think I mentioned I got those binding posts on sale. There is a short version also. Totally a **** to solder to as there is a lot of copper there and it's a great heat sink. As to corrosion? Can't speak to that. They've been in a plastic bag for a couple of years now and show absolutely none - but they were in a bag.

    Would I buy them again...nope.

    Yep I too seen they were much cheaper and I was not going to solder to them anyway. A while back I had some Cardas RCA's I was having trouble soldering to. I gave Cardas a call for some help the guy told me to pre-heat with a propane torch. Lets just say I was not prepared to hear that :smiley: but it worked great.

    I was simply giving my personal experience, not trying to say Jeff was wrong. I can't imagine a company like Cardas producing something that tarnishes so easily. All material tarnishes just at somewhat different rates. So far I have had zero negative affects and it's been almost 10 years and perhaps 4 cleanings (I clean and use DeOxit on ALL my connections periodically). The Aleph came with those as the previous owner installed them and I saw no reason to get rid of them.

    Just my .02c

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • dromundsdromunds Posts: 8,135
    ALL212 wrote: »
    [
    For your collections - a good link for tweeter reviews:
    http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/

    And the tweeter is probably a Vifa (now Tymphany by Peerless) XT25TG30-04 with a custom face plate.

    Can't locate the woofer yet.

    Thanks, interesting stuff. I have several Vifa's in Dahlquists (they used Vifas sometimes as substitutes for out of production tweeters and as Magnat substitutes for a period IIRC) and some Scan-Speaks in Taylo Monitors. I'm pretty sure I've read the 7's had Vifa tweeters but somebody should know that off the top of their head.
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 13,767
    heiney9 wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    heiney9 wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I'm glad you bought those copper Cardas binding post. You're my guinea pig beta tester. ;) I wanted to use those but Jeff at Sonic craft emphatically said "NO! stay away they corrode horribly" I could never find anyone who had used them to ask. I took his word when he stated that they turn green or very dark brown just sitting on the shelf.

    Looking good Aaron

    I have the same binding posts on my Pass Aleph 30 and never noticed any more corrosion than any other binding post. Now I need to examine them to see...lol

    H9


    Well Brock I would expect them to tarnish more so than gold or silver, that being said I was going to put shrink tubing over them as I only use banana's anyway. Jeff said it wouldn't matter so I took him at his word. I figured he does this as a business and would have more experience than I would in this aspect.



    ALL212 wrote: »
    I think I mentioned I got those binding posts on sale. There is a short version also. Totally a **** to solder to as there is a lot of copper there and it's a great heat sink. As to corrosion? Can't speak to that. They've been in a plastic bag for a couple of years now and show absolutely none - but they were in a bag.

    Would I buy them again...nope.

    Yep I too seen they were much cheaper and I was not going to solder to them anyway. A while back I had some Cardas RCA's I was having trouble soldering to. I gave Cardas a call for some help the guy told me to pre-heat with a propane torch. Lets just say I was not prepared to hear that :smiley: but it worked great.

    I was simply giving my personal experience, not trying to say Jeff was wrong. I can't imagine a company like Cardas producing something that tarnishes so easily. All material tarnishes just at somewhat different rates. So far I have had zero negative affects and it's been almost 10 years and perhaps 4 cleanings (I clean and use DeOxit on ALL my connections periodically). The Aleph came with those as the previous owner installed them and I saw no reason to get rid of them.

    Just my .02c

    H9

    I know man and that was exactly what i was looking for.
    Thanks Mr. H9
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