Living room doesn't have grounded outlets. What do I do?

comfortablycurt

Hey everyone,

I just transferred into the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign for my junior year, and I just moved into a new apartment here yesterday. I'm finally getting settled in, and things are going great here...aside from one issue. I failed to realize that the living room doesn't have grounded outlets. There are three outlets and they are all two prong outlets. Clearly this is an issue for my audio equipment. It's an apartment, so I can't really change them myself.

The way I'm seeing it, I have two options. Maybe two anyway. The first is the simplest. I have grounded outlets in my kitchen, and it would be incredibly easy to run an extension cord from the kitchen to the living room and conceal it fairly well. If I go that direction, I'd obviously get a good heavy gauge cable, and the run would be about 25 feet. The extension cord would only be connected to my APC H10 Power Conditioner, and all of the gear would then be connected the H10.

The second (potential) option is through using a 2-to-3 prong adapter. They make and sell these all over the place. However...I have to question whether this is a better option. These things have a connector to tie into a ground source. What type of source can I use as a ground? The APC H10 has a ground built into the unit for eliminating ground-loops and such. Could I use this as a grounding point while still having my gear plugged into it? This seems both plausible and not at the same time. If this won't work, what other grounding sources can I use?

If anyone has any input on these ideas or any other suggested solutions, I'd love to hear them. The stereo won't be ready to get hooked up for a little while anyway since I didn't bring a rack for my gear. However, I'm about to order a new rack and some new speaker stands this weekend, so I'll be ready to go soon. I haven't gotten to listen to my stereo since May, and I'm hoping I can get this issue resolved before then so there aren't any further delays. I miss the tunes.

Thanks in advance for any input,

Curt

edit-I should add that the gear connected to it will be a Marantz UD5005 universal player, a Parasound Halo P5 preamp, a Parasound HCA1200II power amp, a TV, an Xbox, and sometimes my laptop.

[Deleted User]

Hello,
One approach would be to run a grounding wire from the cold water pipe in the kitchen to where your audio gear is located. This should provide a suitable natural ground (literally the pipe is buried in the ground) you can use. A #16 gauge wire should be sufficient, you can use a hose clamp to attach the wire to the pipe.
Are you on the building's ground floor?
Regards, Ken

mantis

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

Hello,
One approach would be to run a grounding wire from the cold water pipe in the kitchen to where your audio gear is located. This should provide a suitable natural ground (literally the pipe is buried in the ground) you can use. A #16 gauge wire should be sufficient, you can use a hose clamp to attach the wire to the pipe.
Are you on the building's ground floor?
Regards, Ken

Thats basically what I was going to say except I was going to suggest using a 14- 12 gauge ground solid core wire.

tonyb

Ken's old school for sure now. The water pipe trick was used back in the day before grounded outlets were common. Works though.

I'd use the power conditioner any way I could.

heiney9

Hi Curt, how's it going? Still using that Adcom 545 I sold you?

Is the outlet you are plugging the APC into a 3 prong or 2 prong outlet?

H9

afterburnt

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

Hello,
One approach would be to run a grounding wire from the cold water pipe in the kitchen to where your audio gear is located. This should provide a suitable natural ground (literally the pipe is buried in the ground) you can use. A #16 gauge wire should be sufficient, you can use a hose clamp to attach the wire to the pipe.
Are you on the building's ground floor?
Regards, Ken

not necessarily a good idea.I live in an old house where the main has been replaced with PVC

tonyb

afterburnt wrote: »

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

Hello,
One approach would be to run a grounding wire from the cold water pipe in the kitchen to where your audio gear is located. This should provide a suitable natural ground (literally the pipe is buried in the ground) you can use. A #16 gauge wire should be sufficient, you can use a hose clamp to attach the wire to the pipe.
Are you on the building's ground floor?
Regards, Ken

not necessarily a good idea.I live in an old house where the main has been replaced with PVC

Doesn't matter, the copper still runs from the main and is buried 4-6 ft under ground going into your house. It's the ground that acts as the grounding agent, not the water main. Think of it like a lightning rod stuck in the ground or your cable service ground, a metal pole simply stuck in the ground a foot or 2.

comfortablycurt

The only water pipes I can access are under the kitchen sink, and I'm not sure if this is what you guys mean by the main. I'll attach a picture.



Would something like that be sufficient? If so, this is a possibility. But at this point it would be just as easy to simply run an extension cord from the 3 prong outlets in my kitchen.

heiney9 wrote: »

Hi Curt, how's it going? Still using that Adcom 545 I sold you?

Is the outlet you are plugging the APC into a 3 prong or 2 prong outlet?

H9

Hey Brock, things are going very well. How about yourself?

I'm not using the Adcom anymore. At the beginning of the summer I picked up a Parasound HCA1200II. I basically upgraded my whole system right around the same time. I still have the Adcom though. It'll get put to use again one day in a second system.

The outlet right behind where my stereo will go is a 2 prong outlet. However, I have a bank of grounded 3 prong outlets in the kitchen, and running an extension cord to one of them would be a very simple matter. Unfortunately the easier of the two outlets in the kitchen to reach is the same outlet that the fridge and microwave are plugged into, so perhaps not as good of an idea. The other outlet would be a bit more awkward to run a cord to, but could still be managed I think.

Ultimately it would be easiest to ground it to the APC, but I'm still not sure if that's a good idea. Perhaps I should contact APC and see what they say.

Thanks for the input everyone!

pitdogg2

Curt, by chance did you look behind the outlet to make sure it is just 2 wire? I've known folks to replace outlets and just push ground wire back into the box.

tonyb

Any copper cold water pipe is sufficient, including the one in your pic. I see no problem grounding the power conditioner in this manner.

If this building has wires coming in from outside, you can drive a stake in the ground, clamp it, and run a wire inside along the other wires that may come into the apartment.

afterburnt

tonyb wrote: »

afterburnt wrote: »

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

Hello,
One approach would be to run a grounding wire from the cold water pipe in the kitchen to where your audio gear is located. This should provide a suitable natural ground (literally the pipe is buried in the ground) you can use. A #16 gauge wire should be sufficient, you can use a hose clamp to attach the wire to the pipe.
Are you on the building's ground floor?
Regards, Ken

not necessarily a good idea.I live in an old house where the main has been replaced with PVC

Doesn't matter, the copper still runs from the main and is buried 4-6 ft under ground going into your house. It's the ground that acts as the grounding agent, not the water main. Think of it like a lightning rod stuck in the ground or your cable service ground, a metal pole simply stuck in the ground a foot or 2.

not in my case, thePVC come ou of the ground and then joins the copper. That is why I know it is PVC.. Anyway I wouldn't take a chace unless I was certain that the pipe was a good ground. One plastic valve could ruin your da

comfortablycurt

I haven't checked yet, but that's something I can definitely do. I'm guessing that isn't the case though. This place was built in the 70s and these outlets appear to have been around for a good portion of that time.

comfortablycurt

To clarify, if I grounded it to the water pipe I would be grounding the 2-to-3 prong adapter to the pipe, and then simply plugging the APC into that plug. I wouldn't be grounding the APC to the pipe.

Here's an example of the type of adapter I'm referring to

amazon.com/45086-3-Prong-2-Prong-Electrical-Adapter/dp/B00166TT3G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1440268066&sr=8-1&keywords=2+to+3+prong+adapter

tonyb

afterburnt wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

afterburnt wrote: »

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

Hello,
One approach would be to run a grounding wire from the cold water pipe in the kitchen to where your audio gear is located. This should provide a suitable natural ground (literally the pipe is buried in the ground) you can use. A #16 gauge wire should be sufficient, you can use a hose clamp to attach the wire to the pipe.
Are you on the building's ground floor?
Regards, Ken

not necessarily a good idea.I live in an old house where the main has been replaced with PVC

Doesn't matter, the copper still runs from the main and is buried 4-6 ft under ground going into your house. It's the ground that acts as the grounding agent, not the water main. Think of it like a lightning rod stuck in the ground or your cable service ground, a metal pole simply stuck in the ground a foot or 2.

not in my case, thePVC come ou of the ground and then joins the copper. That is why I know it is PVC.. Anyway I wouldn't take a chace unless I was certain that the pipe was a good ground. One plastic valve could ruin your da

So your water line into the house is above ground ? Kinda find that hard to believe.

afterburnt

Tony it is California where any stoopid thing is possible

afterburnt

Like cheese on egg foo young

tonyb

afterburnt wrote: »

Tony it is California where any stoopid thing is possible

LOL.....gotcha, no more need be said.

comfortablycurt

afterburnt wrote: »

Like cheese on egg foo young

Oh that's just wrong.

ken brydson

How old is the building? My guess is the kitchen outlets aren't gounded either. Someone probably just installed 3 prong outlets.

comfortablycurt

My guess is that the place was built in the 60s or 70s, but I'm not really sure. I don't know for sure whether or not the kitchen outlets are actually grounded. The building definitely isn't new enough to require grounded wiring throughout though. I'm also going to check to see if the kitchen outlets are grounded when I check the one in the living room.

mrbiron

Sounds to me like you need to move....

cnh

Best of luck, Curt! Go get 'em! I have to drive my daughter to college in another week or so. Her first year away!

Think the boys have you covered above. I know something about "low budget" living in cities and old apartments and working three jobs because Grad stipends weren't much back then. But hopefully, you're sharing with a group of friends or soon to be friends. I remember one summer, my roommate and I were so broke we were selling textbooks to buy cans of tuna and rice and beans! He had an old Pilot integrated and a set of house brand speakers from some shop in the mid-west and a TT, but our parties were legendary! Hopefully, you're a little better off than we were, you already have a MUCH better system! NYC was NOT a cheap place to live once the gentrification cannons were fired! lol

Not sure what housing is like in a much smaller metro area like Champaign-Urbana?

Take care!

comfortablycurt

Moving is definitely not happening. I'm a physics/math double major and this place is about a 4 minute walk from the physics building and a 5 minute walk from the math building and the main quad, with campus town right past that. The location is great and I love the apartment. These outlets are the only issue I have with it so far. Plus I have a 1 year lease on it, so I'm here for a while regardless.

cnh wrote: »

Best of luck, Curt! Go get 'em! I have to drive my daughter to college in another week or so. Her first year away!

Think the boys have you covered above. I know something about "low budget" living in cities and old apartments. But hopefully, you're sharing with a group of friends or soon to be friends. I remember one summer, my roommate and I were so broke we were selling textbooks to buy cans of tuna and rice and beans! Hopefully, you're a little better off than we were. NYC was NOT a cheap place to live once the "great communicator" fired the gentrification cannons! lol

Take care!

Rent here actually isn't too bad. This isn't NYC though. I'm in a small 1 bedroom, so it's just me. Rent is about $600/month + electric, which is great for being this close to campus.

cnh

That's great, Curt. One bedroom. God that's cheaper than what I was paying in the '80s for a two bedroom! But don't be a stranger. At least a couple of your peers will become lifelong friends and confidants! We had an underground society that published its own comic commentary of the Department, biweekly, in newsletter form. And also framed and developed a number of Independent Study courses we ran out of our living room with a token Professor in tow, usually not in attendance. We learned so much more on our own than not. But your field is quite a bit different and you will probably need a mentor unless you're a Dirac, Feynman, Einstein or the like. You never know?

Oh, and you will probably meet only ONE or TWO brilliant Profs in your time who will inspire and point the way forward. They may not even be in "your" Dept.? It's an exciting time!

heiney9

Better check the 3 prong plugs because just because there is a 3 prong plug doesn't mean the ground is hooked up. My house had zero grounded outlets and they were all 3 prong. I told the seller he needed a certified electrician to come in and rewire. I found the last DIY guys just snipped all the grounds at the breaker box. The new electrician grounded everything by pig tailing all the cut off ground wire.

H9

BlueFox

What is the problem with no ground? Until I added dedicated lines my existing circuits were ungrounded, and I never had any issues. After I added dedicated lines I started worrying about ground loops, but so far they have not occurred. Just add outlets that accept three prong plugs and you are good to go.

Toolfan66

ken brydson wrote: »

How old is the building? My guess is the kitchen outlets aren't gounded either. Someone probably just installed 3 prong outlets.

I was just going to post that..

comfortablycurt

I haven't gotten around to checking the outlets in the kitchen yet. I'm planning on getting around to it this weekend. I'm still waiting on a new rack for my gear and some new speaker stands to show up. However, I've been doing a bit more research on this. It seems that in the US the procedures according to building codes and such is to replace a two prong outlet with a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter outlet.

"In Canada and the United States, two-wire (ungrounded) (NEMA-1) outlets may be replaced with GFCIs to protect against electrocution, and a grounding wire does not need to be supplied to that GFCI. The outlet must be labeled as such. The GFCI manufacturers provide tags for the appropriate installation description. GFCI receptacles can be connected to also protect all the downstream receptacles on that circuit."

From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device

I'm wondering if this is a better option. I'm guessing that the outlets in the kitchen aren't even grounded. One of them, along with the outlet in the bathroom already appear to have GFCI outlets installed. If I find that the outlet in the kitchen is actually grounded, then I'll just go the extension cord route. But in the event that it isn't, I might just replace the outlet with one of these. They only cost $10-$15 or so, which is less than I'd pay for the extension cord anyway.

cnh

Where is lightman1 (Russ) when you need him! Our resident electrician.

comfortablycurt

As suspected, the outlets in the kitchen aren't actually grounded. The three prong plugs were just installed in place. So I ended up picking up a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter outlet when I went shopping earlier. I'm installing it tomorrow and then finally getting my stereo hooked back up. I've barely had a chance to do any listening since I upgraded everything at the beginning of the summer. I can't wait to finally spend some quality time with my new gear. Mostly while doing some hardcore studying...lol

BlueFox

As mentioned earlier, I wouldn't worry about not having the ground for stereo. The GFI on the other hand is mandatory in the bathroom, or anywhere around water and electricity. It does have to be grounded.