Speaker distance, I'll try and be detailed with my situation.

Arkagone

So this is my first post, i've been following this site for a while, though. I'll try and be specific in responses and questions, I posted a picture, but I'm not entirely sure if it'll show up? Oh well, if it does, good, if it doesn't- Oh well. Onto my question: If you can see the picture, as you can see, I have my work-space, my computer, stereo, all in this one spot in this room. With 4 pairs of speaker, the frosts are the Sony SS-F6000's and the backs are the Sony SS-F3000 Bookshelf Speakers (Bookshelf? Look at them). And they are all toed in, just at my eyes, perfectly the right height and everything, the backs and fronts are both facing my ears at all times. I also have a Yamaha NS-C444 center speaker on it's way. Each of my speakers are two-three feet away from my sitting area. The backs are the same distance apart as my fronts. But not that same distance from the fronts to the backs, only from their respective twin. Lemme get my tape measurer- that actually took a while, I almost gave up. Okay, so! Measurements.

Back speaker's tweeter to it's respective twin's: 55"
Front speaker's tweeter to it's respective twin's: 61"
My back speaker's tweeters to my fronts: 42"

Now I kind of know the basics here. I'm an audiophile for the most part. I know your fronts should be
1.) Away from the back wall at least 1-3 feet depending.
2.) Your fronts should be at least 8 feet apart.
3.) I know i'm supposed to make a triangle with the speakers and myself.
I know all about standing waves and overlapping and such.


I realize I'm cheating the distance here, I'm not making a triangle, and i'm certainly not 8 feet apart, and that's actually my question. I had thought there were advantages to both ways, right? Like, the further apart, the more soundstage, the closer the more (???).
Like how you can have more bass, or more clarity, depending on how you do certain things, yes, well, I don't know how that works. So if someone could help me as to where I should position these? Personally they sound great. I mean reaaally great. But I feel they are too close? Perhaps? I mean that much is obvious. What are the advantages, what are the disadvantages, etc. Great, maybe, but I can definitely tell i'm having bass overlapping problems. When i'm not in my workspace, the bass slams my face almost, it's astonishingly great. When i'm in the middle, the bass is much less, like it still kicks great, but it doesn't have that subwoofer hum that it does when i'm directed in front of the tweeters. How can I fix this, and why is it happening.

Anyway, if you could point out my stupid placement choices and how to fix them, advantages and disadvantages to my choices, if any. Thank you! (The bass overlapping waves, resulting in reduced bass is the only actual problem I can find here. But loving sound as much as I do, I would love to make them sound as good as I can get them, even if just a little, I also think the soundstage may be a little lacking because of the close proximity, is that possible? I don't know. If someone was to literally reply to me and say "There shouldn't be a problem, as long as it sounds good to you, I don't see any big issues with your setup, that'd be fine, just pointing out, I don't /want/ changes, i'm wanting to know if I /need/ changes. I know it all comes down to preference, but where does preference come in if there is something I can do, to literally make it sound better? Just wanting to get the best I can my original idea was to make the best possible sound setup, on a budget. And can I tell you, these speakers are amazing, so I want to get the most I can. Thanks again!)

tonyb

I see multiple problems, but like you said, if it sounds good to you.

One, your space is small and those speakers are not designed for near field listening. You appear to be trying to focus your chair smack dab in the middle of all 4 speakers, may or may not be the best solution as we can't hear with your ears. I would try and get the floor standers as far away as possible from your chair in that small room, put the bookies on stands closer to the 'puter. Other than that, seems your pretty limited on options given how crowded that room is. In the end, if you like what you hear, don't change a damn thing.

Arkagone

Hey, thanks a bunch for replying. So wait, you want me to make my fronts as far away from my sitting position as possible? Makes sense. But did I read that correctly, I should have my backs /closer/ to me? And what if I can't move my fronts any further, not saying I can't, but if I can't, would move them further apart, which would also result in them technically being further away, suffice? Or do they need to be like, away from me more, and not just to the side. Also, if I have them more to the side, or further away at all, but specifically to the side, will having the backs that close to me pose a problem, like how does that work, wouldn't the backs sound reach me first? Would I be able to adjust the fronts volume and fix that? I once had a wacky set up in an even smaller room, I had my fronts to either side of my tv, and my couch on the back wall, but instead of having the back speakers behind me, I put them to my L & R walls, and in the end, I couldn't hear my fronts, no matter how much I turned them up, because the ones to my sides (The ones that were closer) drown them out, because they were closer.

As you can tell I lust for knowledge, I want to know all I can. Just tell me whatcha' can.

tonyb

Assuming your listening to 4 channel stereo. 5.1 is another matter.

Floorstanders aren't meant for near field listening, so no matter what you do, unless you can get some distance between you and the front pair, not much will change.

If you can at least get all 4 at equal distances, but that front pair is way too close. Hard to comment any further without a full pic of the room.

Arkagone

It is actually a 5.1 Pioneer stereo.

Arkagone

Also, they are all the same distance from my ears, just not fr each other. Is that what you mean? Because I actually made my friend hold the end of the tape to his head and I meassured all four to equal distances, they are more or less perfect in that sense down to inches.

Arkagone

Here is pretty much my final question, as you've given me virtually everythind I needed.

Lets throw out some hypatheticals.

If I had the space needed to work with, what would be the minimum distance needed. Both from the speakers to me and apart from each other and same for my backs. Give me that and i'll see what I can do. Thanks again.

txcoastal1

First of all try working on just 2.1 using your front to channels and sub. trying toeing the speakers in and out a little at a time. You will start a development of depth, sound stage, and separation. It should produce a holographic like image of a band, vocalist, or orchestra.

Depth - A sense of distance (near to far) of different instruments.

Separation- Define locations of instruments and vocalist

Sound stage - The area between two speakers that appears to the listener to be occupied by sonic images. Like a real stage, a sound stage should have width, depth, and height.

Then you can tweek the rears to fill in

tonyb

Arkagone wrote: »

Here is pretty much my final question, as you've given me virtually everythind I needed.

Lets throw out some hypatheticals.

If I had the space needed to work with, what would be the minimum distance needed. Both from the speakers to me and apart from each other and same for my backs. Give me that and i'll see what I can do. Thanks again.

Whats the dimensions of the room ? Do you have a subwoofer ? Center channel ? Do you play 5.1 music/movies ?

Off the top of my head I want to say 5-7 feet apart for the fronts, a foot off back wall and side walls, and about 8-10 feet back for your listening position. That's just a start, obviously you'd have to adjust some.

Hermitism

txcoastal1 wrote: »

You will start a development of depth, sound stage, and separation. It should produce a holographic like image of a band, vocalist, or orchestra.

Depth - A sense of distance (near to far) of different instruments.

Separation- Define locations of instruments and vocalist

Sound stage - The area between two speakers that appears to the listener to be occupied by sonic images. Like a real stage, a sound stage should have width, depth, and height.

A+ for giving definitions to first time posters. On my first day here, I thought I was suffering from cognitive impairment. I understood 25% of the advice given.

Today, I'm up to 75%. Okay...60%.

Arkagone

I have pretty much what I need. I think I can work with this. Unless you honestly think you can help me further. If so I will go ahead and measure the room. But if not i'm content with the information given.

Arkagone

I play games and listen to music, music primarily. I plan on getting a sub, but not soon, I have a center coming in the mail, though. Physically in my possession are only these four though, but not in a day or two i'll have the center as well.

txcoastal1

Hermitism wrote: »

A+ for giving definitions to first time posters. On my first day here, I thought I was suffering from cognitive impairment. I understood 25% of the advice given.

Today, I'm up to 75%. Okay...60%.

Trust me I didn't get it either until I went to a Hi-fi shop listening room, and that's when I got addicted kinda was like an 3 dimensional acid trip

Arkagone

93" 1/2" from ceiling to floor

190"-192" long ways, parallel legnth with the other across from it

150" width

Der ya go sir

seabeerob213

if it were me, with just an avr, i would use all bookshelf speakers and a center(and i do), you could probably get away with using those towers as speaker stands, but your room is too small and an avr isnt powerful enough to make towers work right.

Arkagone

Well my pioneer has plenty of juice. I actually have a question about it too, didn't know wether to ask it here or in a stereo appropriate thread

txcoastal1

Keep your issue here and ask away

seabeerob213

for starters, whats the model of pio avr?

recoveryone

I think Tony had the best starting point, When setting up a room for 2ch or surround listening you have to look at the size and angles of the room being used. From the picture you posted I can see that one wall has a sloped side but not fully vaulted.

You may have to start from a point of breaking down all of your gear and move the desk out of the way and find the center (or what you may want to be the center of the room from a listening position. Just from the picture only I would go with a 2.1 setup at the most if you use the sloped wall as the fronts (the slope of the wall will help carry the sound to the oppitsite side of the room) with no need for rear speakers. If 4 speakers are to be used I would create a wide front (2 speakers each side of center) this will give you a wider sound stage even when you may be sitting futher away from the speakers.

Now if you go with the other wall (slope wall as a side wall) you can go with a 5.1 setup, but will need to move back from fronts6-8 feet making your listening position center of sound field. The rear speaker can be placed on stands or better yet in future used bi directional speakers in rear mounting on side walls (4-6 feet behind sitting position) to help create a full sound stage in rear of room.

Arkagone

Pioneer AV Receiver VSX-822

And using the sloped walls as side walls isn't an option. One of the walls on one side, has a pair of double patio doors, the other has my actual bedroom door. So using the sloped wall as the front is my only option. Now, I do want 5.1, because for games it is a necessity. Can we work around that. Sorry if i'm being difficult, these are the cards i've been dealt with this wacky attic room.

recoveryone

I figure as much seeing many homes in the Northwest with this upstairs design. If that is the option I would go with the 2.1 or 3.1 at the most. The reason why I say this is that there is not enough room between the walls 150" = 12.5 feet. Using large floorstanding speakers in both front and rear will cause a collision of sound waves that will not come out very good. Not even tiny bookshelf will help much either as the sound reflecting off the fronts with that sloped wall will over take anything from the rear. I would go with my first suggestion and use all 4 speakers in the front making a larger (wider sound stage) the center will work fine with games and a sub will add a bit more punch. But anything place behind you will kill the balance of sound for the distance being covered.

Arkagone

Which ones closest to the center, the bigger, or the smaller speakers?

Arkagone

Also how far apart should the speakers be from each other, like butted together, or like several feet.

recoveryone

Use the larger ones first approx 8-10 a part

Place smaller ones appox 3 feet futher out, all speakers toed in toward listening position (actually angle 2nd set just to the rear of listening position) Larger speakers at ear level and smaller ones appox 1-1.5 feet above ears.

Arkagone

Alright, that's everything
Thank you everyone so much.

recoveryone

Now how are you running/connecting the second set? A/B or as surrounds?

Arkagone

My pioneer has something called "Existereo" essentially this makes all 4 play in stereo. As in, the R and RR and L and RL all play left and right audio, R and RR play right and L and RL play left, pretty sweets. Adds that amazing stereo sound quality, but with all speakers, basically makes them all play equally. Only downside would be if your rears couldn't handle what your fronts could, not a problem here.

recoveryone

IF I am not mistaken, on the 822-K has a setting for front height and that is what you want for the smaller speakers

Arkagone

What do I want to make the height?

recoveryone

On the rear of the AVR there are a set of push connectors that are for the front height speakers

tonyb

recoveryone wrote: »

On the rear of the AVR there are a set of push connectors that are for the front height speakers

He doesn't have height speakers, he's talking about the height of the speaker itself.

I would put them on the floor, given your pic, I might tilt them back an inch or 2 so that they are firing at your head. Try placing a small thickness book under the front of the speaker to tilt it back slightly. Couple small blocks of wood might work too. See how it sounds, won't cost you anything to try it.