Where's the weak link in my system...

gnarlycore

Ok so here's a question for you folks, I'm tired of tinkering and tinkering whenever I play vinyl it always sound muddy. I recently installed a new cartridge in my turntable hoping for an improvement in sound, nope in fact I think it sounds a tiny bit worse (i have to turn the volume up higher than I did on my old cartridge). Here's my set up, anyone want to tell me where the weak link is? I know this is blasphemy for most audiophiles but I'd rather listen to Spotify than use my turntable, and that kind of breaks my heart.

Receiver : Yamaha RX-V1065
Speakers: Polk Monitor 70's
Turntable: Audio Technica AT-LP120 (used to have the ATP-2 cartridge installed that it came with, recently "upgraded" to a shure 97m97xe)

Using the phono input on the receiver, and phono out setting on the turntable. If I use the Line out setting on the turntable through a generic AUX input on the receiver it's a little louder but introduces some hum (which this turntable is infamous for). Also let me say that I had a Rega RP1 with the proformance package hooked up to this same setup for about a year, and it was always kind of the same, just sounds muddy, no impact no instrument separation. Is the phono stage on this receiver just that bad? Or am I just expecting too much out of my equipment? Also, the shure cartridge seems to hang very low I guess is the terminology I'm look for, the black plastic behind the stylus seems to be making contact with my records. I have the cartridge aligned properly and the tonearm's tracking force set to Shure's specifications. Any help would be appreciated, I'm about to put my entire record collection on ebay.

KellyMic

Do other sources such as CD sound fine?

At 105wpc the Monitor 70's are a bit under powered so it's important to know how other sources sound.

gnarlycore

Yep everything else sounds great, xbox and ps3 sounds fine, streaming spotify through my home theater pc sounds great. Turntable just sounds muddy, with no punch compared to all those digital sources. Also, average listening volume on the digital sources ranges from -30 to -25, -22 for movies (LOUD). On the turntable I have to turn it all the way up to -18 to start filling the room out.

EndersShadow

Could you have a gain/voltage issue/mismatch between your TT and AVR? Given your volume differences I think that might be what your having problems with.

Have you tried borrowing/using another AVR or even using another AVR's phono input then connect it to your Yamaha? Might help you figure things out...

gnarlycore

Oh and I think i fixed the black plastic part hitting my records, the tone arm was balanced for the old cartridge, a quick re-balancing with the new cartridge and it looks like a lot of the weight on thing was alleviated. That's my bad haha, I got too excited when the Shure came in the mail I skipped a step...unfortunately it still doesn't sound too hot.

gnarlycore

EndersShadow, I've hooked the turntable up to my AudioEngine A5's with the line out selected on the turntable (as these are just powered speakers with an aux input), and the volume discrepancy is not nearly as great as it is on my AVR. Spotify through the computer (with a nuforce udac2 usb dac/headphone amp) is just a tiny bit louder (with the udac set to about 12 o'clock) through those A5's (volume on a 5's set to about 8:30 o clock, because they are so freaking loud haha).

pitdogg2

did you align properly? maybe your phono input is for a certain cartridge MC/MM? Most are for MM cartridges now a days the MC are much lower output than MM. Most Phono inputs in modern receivers really lack in quality mostly just an after thought really.

we really need more info

gnarlycore

Yea It's aligned properly (or as proper as I could get it, without fiddling with it for hours). Here is the AVR's page from yamaha I don't see anything about the phono stage in there at all.
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx/rx-v1065_black__u/?mode=model

As far as I know the Shure M97xe is a MM cartridge. What other info do you folks need and I'll try and find it!

KellyMic

That Shure is an MM cartridge. It sounds like the issue an MC would have though, the Yamaha manual (page 15) even states when using a low-output MC to use an inline boosting transformer or MC-head amplifier. Did you ground the TT to the receiver?

gnarlycore

The turntable has no ground wire unfortunately

Jhayman

I would try an aftermarket phono stage, from Pro-Ject..
Very reasonably priced..
If that does not do it, I would suspect the Yamaha Phono stage..is your issue..

Msabot1

I have never heard of a turntable not having a ground wire,that would cause a noticeable hum anyway! If your pre has a mm-mc selector make sure it is in the mm setting. Other than that the phono section of yer pre was designed for a mc cartridge and using a mm will result in muddy sound and low volume.

Jhayman

After searching the net others have had success with a different headshell and make sure the wire leads from the cart to the headshell are TIGHT..
This TT is internally grounded no need for a ground..

gnarlycore

So I bit the bullet and bought a cambridge audio azur 551p as kind of an experiment...yea it sounds pretty dang good now, the volume is still a bit of an issue but at -20 it has all the volume and most of the punch that digital sources do at -30. The hum is only there if I zero in on it, you really get it if you use the turntables built in preamp (which is notorious for that hum). So problem solved...somewhat, too much money spent on this turntable haha, but this preamp is probably what I'll use for any future turntables. Oh and as far as waht I meant with the ground, like others said it is internally ground (not very well though, I'm guessing that's where the hum comes from) and there's no way to have a ground wire without installing one.