emotiva....what's the catch?

sponger

A quick youtube search for emotiva turned up videos of owners who were singing high praises. A few of them referred to their emotivas as "audiophile-grade," with one guy even saying that his was on par with McIntosh.

Of course I know to take owner/user reviews on youtube with a grain of salt, but those videos along with the many recommendations on the forum almost have me convinced that the amps in question truly deliver much more than their prices would suggest.

Still I can't forget the old adage about getting what you pay for. That being said, what's the catch? It's a question I ask with no intention of being disparaging of emotiva products or their owners.

Thanks.

polkfarmboy

Many emotiva owners have never heard anything else other than emotiva and they get blown away by the sound. If its your first venture into audio you would be in for a real treat but for many around here thats been around the block find them to be a grade below average amplification. Emo like bose has clever wording for selling there products and for new stuff its very high value when considering the warranty but for compairing the price of any new emo there is something on the used market ready to kick its a$$ light it on fire and throw it over a cliff

For home theater it will get the speakers banging and have good entertainment value but when it comes to unearthing the soul of lyrical emotion it just does not deliver

teekay0007

So, PFB, I guess we can take that as high praise of the Emotiva UPA-5 you have listed in the FS section? :eek: :rolleyes:

Tankman

@polkfarmboy nice post and some good points too.A Big +1 here.I have Emo amps and I have too say they are good, a Parasound they are not.The XPA-5 great bang for the buck for HT.For music BK Butler is on my short list.Again I don't knock any gear but like lots have said you get what you pay for.Happy hunting!:cool:

sponger

Thanks for the opinions. It sounds like they're great but lacking certain nuances. Makes sense, but I figure those nuances wouldn't be discernable through my speakers anyway. You guys prolly have speakers a few rungs up the ladder- ones that make the differences between parasound and emotiva more obvious. Meanwhile I don't expect these monitors of mine to be that revealing. That leaves the question of build quality issues, and it doesn't sound like that's been a known problem with emotiva. At least no one has mentioned that so far. Thanks again.

F1nut

They can't be great if they lack certain nuances. Think about it.

Devlon

While mostly true "You get what you pay for", it's not always true. Chrysler automobiles cost in about the same price ranges of it's competition (Chevrolet, Ford, etc.), but I consider them not as good based on my experience in owning three of them. CurrentlyI own a Town & Country minivan that has become a worst investment than the Jeep Grand Cherokee that I owned before before it.I will never buy a Chrysler again.

Emotiva is a lot of bang for the buck for three reasons:

1) Their overall quality
2) Their business model
3) They are made in China

There are lots of reviews that attest to their build quality. Also, their 5 year warranty can transfer unlimited between owners during that time. That definitely shows confidence by the company in their products.

Emotiva's business model is direct internet sales to consumers which bypasses the middle man, or dealer mark-up. This has a great advantage for the buyer of getting a product at a much better price. On power amps say, companies like Parasound, McIntosh, Bryston, Carver, Krell, etc., etc., only sell through their dealer network. This will add a minimum of about 50% extra to the sell price because of the dealer markup. I used to own a music store, and our cost on Fender Strats would average about 750.00. However, after our mark-up the price to the customer would be about 1595.00. Based on average percentages of dealer mark-up Emotiva's XPA-5 (5x200watts @ 8 ohms) that sells for 899.00 would be 1,700.00 to 1,800.00 through a dealer network. So, getting what you pay will be off base somewhat here considering the direct sales model compared to amps sold through a dealer network.

Emotiva's amps are made in China, but are designed by Emotiva in Franklin, TN. According to the Dan Laughman (Emotiva CEO) the quality control is very strick and the amps are built exactly to Emotiva's specifications. I am a USA man myself, but being made in China does give a great price advantage for both the manufacturer and consumer.

If you look you will there are many people giving their impressions of Emotiva against "name brand" amps they own. Also, there aresome reviews from very respected veteran reviewers that is worth taking note of:

Kal Rubinson http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-51

Steve Guttenberg http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57367525-47/emotivas-astonishing-desktop-speaker/

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57405240-47/emotivas-sweet-sounding-$219-amplifier/


John Atkinson http://www.stereophile.com/content/emotiva-erc-2-cd-player-page-2

Various Pro reviews from Tone Lab, Audioholics, audioreview.com

http://emotiva.com/news/index.php/tag/review-2/


P.S. - No, I don't work for Emotiva, not a fanboy, and never owned one of their products. But I have heard several amps, and componets by them. All I can say is that I was impressed in every instance. They could well be the biggest bang for the buck in theaudio industry right now.

Dawgfish

sponger wrote: »

Thanks for the opinions. It sounds like they're great but lacking certain nuances. Makes sense, but I figure those nuances wouldn't be discernable through my speakers anyway. You guys prolly have speakers a few rungs up the ladder- ones that make the differences between parasound and emotiva more obvious. Meanwhile I don't expect these monitors of mine to be that revealing. That leaves the question of build quality issues, and it doesn't sound like that's been a known problem with emotiva. At least no one has mentioned that so far. Thanks again.

Actually the Monitor 70s are more revealing than you think. I used to own a pair and with the right equipment behind them, they are a very musical speaker. I also used to own an Emotiva XPA-3. It was actually a very good home theater amp, but was just too bright sounding for music for my tastes. Knowing what I know now, I would have bought another brand of amp used over the Emotiva that was more musical such as B&K, Parasaound, Carver, Anthem, Sunfire, Adcom, etc. The other amps will be ones that will be able to grow with your system should you decide to upgrade in the future (and if you are anything like the rest of us you will), while you'll find yourself wanting to upgrade with the Emotiva pretty darn quickly. Not bashing at all, just saying save yourself some money and get an amp from the start that will be much more compatable with upgrades, especially if you get more into the music side of things.

pearsall001

I won't put too much stock into what the vast majority here say about Emo gear. They pretty much go into a rant & are about ready to fall off the deep end bashing the entire line. According to them it simply doesn't live up to their "audiophile" pedegree...insert laughter here. I wonder how many have actually heard any Emo products???? I would stick to the pro reviews & read up on other forums. The Emo line is pretty well respected except of course here. Emo comes with a return policy which gives you the opportunity to hear it for yourself & sculpt your own opinion.

tonyb

The "catch" is....it's entry level in the amp world. Much like receivers, speakers, etc., there's always a product to bust your cherry when getting into audio. Same with Bose, replace your whole stereo gear with a tabletop radio ? I think not. Many start out on Emo amps and then move on.....nothing wrong with that either as we all have budget constraints at different times in our lives. Since most audio gear goes down in value fairly quickly, you can get a decent used amp of better quality for the price of an Emo. Not bashing them either, they do what they are suppose to do at a given price point, but to compare to a Macintosh amp is just silly talk. If you want new and cheap for HT, then Emo is your huckleberry. If you care about music more so, better options await.

headrott

Devlon wrote: »

Emotiva is a lot of bang for the buck for three reasons:

1) Their overall quality
2) Their business model
3) They are made in China

Emotiva's amps are made in China, but are designed by Emotiva in Franklin, TN. According to the Dan Laughman (Emotiva CEO) the quality control is very strick and the amps are built exactly to Emotiva's specifications. I am a USA man myself, but being made in China does give a great price advantage for both the manufacturer and consumer.

The above, IMO does not inspire or ring of "quality" in my mind. I have paid very close attention to things manufactured in China for about 18 to 20 years now (particularly electronic gear) and can say that while quality control does vary depending on the manufacturer, most electronic gear made in China has a much higher failure rate compared to electronic gear made in the USA, Germany, England, Japan, etc. Also, the components used in the Chinese made gear is lower quality and typically installed in a quicker, lower quality fashion. How do you think the companies sell the amps, DVD players, CD players, etc. for lower cost (even between "lower price point" companies?

Now are there exceptions to the "Made In China" rule? Yes, but they are very far and few in my experience (and as I have said, I have paid close attention to this subject for about 18 to 20 years). This is my opinion of course and people can of course spend their money as they would like. I suggest doing very very good research before purchasing. This includes doing listening tests of multiple gear manufacturers.

brgman

A funny thing about respected reviewers and their praise of products.Usually if you look around the magazine or website you will find that said reviewee is prominently advertised.
Not saying this is always the case but i became cynical years ago when the "best" cigars on the Cigar Aficianado list every year happened to be the biggest ad buyers.
Lots of what i considered great were not even on the list.
Another example i notice is the high praise Wyred4Sound gets from people on the forum(s)yet they are never in the "Best of" lists in magazines.The same magazines where i never see them advertise.
JMHO

cfrizz

Devlon wrote: »

While mostly true "You get what you pay for", it's not always true. Chrysler automobiles cost in about the same price ranges of it's competition (Chevrolet, Ford, etc.), but I consider them not as good based on my experience in owning three of them. CurrentlyI own a Town & Country minivan that has become a worst investment than the Jeep Grand Cherokee that I owned before before it.I will never buy a Chrysler again.

Emotiva is a lot of bang for the buck for three reasons:

1) Their overall quality
2) Their business model
3) They are made in China

There are lots of reviews that attest to their build quality. Also, their 5 year warranty can transfer unlimited between owners during that time. That definitely shows confidence by the company in their products.

Emotiva's business model is direct internet sales to consumers which bypasses the middle man, or dealer mark-up. This has a great advantage for the buyer of getting a product at a much better price. On power amps say, companies like Parasound, McIntosh, Bryston, Carver, Krell, etc., etc., only sell through their dealer network. This will add a minimum of about 50% extra to the sell price because of the dealer markup. I used to own a music store, and our cost on Fender Strats would average about 750.00. However, after our mark-up the price to the customer would be about 1595.00. Based on average percentages of dealer mark-up Emotiva's XPA-5 (5x200watts @ 8 ohms) that sells for 899.00 would be 1,700.00 to 1,800.00 through a dealer network. So, getting what you pay will be off base somewhat here considering the direct sales model compared to amps sold through a dealer network.

Emotiva's amps are made in China, but are designed by Emotiva in Franklin, TN. According to the Dan Laughman (Emotiva CEO) the quality control is very strick and the amps are built exactly to Emotiva's specifications. I am a USA man myself, but being made in China does give a great price advantage for both the manufacturer and consumer.

If you look you will there are many people giving their impressions of Emotiva against "name brand" amps they own. Also, there aresome reviews from very respected veteran reviewers that is worth taking note of:

Kal Rubinson http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-51

Steve Guttenberg http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57367525-47/emotivas-astonishing-desktop-speaker/

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57405240-47/emotivas-sweet-sounding-$219-amplifier/


John Atkinson http://www.stereophile.com/content/emotiva-erc-2-cd-player-page-2

Various Pro reviews from Tone Lab, Audioholics, audioreview.com

http://emotiva.com/news/index.php/tag/review-2/


P.S. - No, I don't work for Emotiva, not a fanboy, and never owned one of their products. But I have heard several amps, and componets by them. All I can say is that I was impressed in every instance. They could well be the biggest bang for the buck in theaudio industry right now.

OUTSTANDING unbiased post Devlon thank you!

Sponger, Polk speakers are designed here in Baltimore, MD but they are put together in China, why for cost savings simple as that, and I have yet to hear anyone come on here and complain about thier build quality.

Devlon made all very good points about Emotiva, a good many people on here have simply outgrown supposed "entry level gear" (read low price) if you don't go into debt to buy it it's no good. Is there better more expensive gear out there that will sound better? Of course there is, that doesn't mean you won't be happy with Emotiva gear. The same way you take what is said on YouTube with a grain of salt, do the same with some of the more biased comments on here as well.

Make your decisions based on what you want to accomplish, what you want, and how much you are willing to spend. Also keep in mind that getting an Emotiva or any other seperates gear will bring your system way over what the majority of people consider a "great entertainment system".

heiney9

The politicians have nothing on a few posters in this thread. Talk about spin and half truths and out of context slinging. A couple of you should run for local office or take the horse to pasture you rode in on.

H9

98Badger

Sponger,

When it comes to equipment opinions, you tend to get extreme responses one way or the other. Everyone has different tastes and expectations. A handfull of the long time members here spout the term synergy quite often when talking about matching gear. I find it hypocritical when they dismiss a specific brand or item that didn't work well in "their" system. Apparently it only applies when favoring their arguments. Emotiva amps do have a bit of a forward presentation and can sound slightly bright with certain speakers or if the room doesn't have proper treatments. On the flip side, the Parasound amp I used to own sounded dull and unexciting with the rest of my setup.

Best advice you can follow is to audition for yourself whether it is Emotiva or another brand. Emotiva has a 30 day return policy so you can send it back for any reason. I actually went to Emotiva amps from a Parasound because I thought the Emotiva offered better bass control. Their amps are solid. Their other gear is hit or miss. There is better quality gear out ther, and Emotiva isn't quite the bargain it used to be since they raised the prices in the last couple of years. I would look into Wyred4sound as another option.

Face

pearsall001 wrote: »

I won't put too much stock into what the vast majority here say about Emo gear. They pretty much go into a rant & are about ready to fall off the deep end bashing the entire line. According to them it simply doesn't live up to their "audiophile" pedegree...insert laughter here. I wonder how many have actually heard any Emo products???? I would stick to the pro reviews & read up on other forums. The Emo line is pretty well respected except of course here. Emo comes with a return policy which gives you the opportunity to hear it for yourself & sculpt your own opinion.

And pro reviews aren't biased either?

Go ahead and start posting negative things about Emo gear on their forum, see how quickly you're banned.

cfrizz wrote: »

a good many people on here have simply outgrown supposed "entry level gear" (read low price) if you don't go into debt to buy it it's no good.

:rolleyes:

heiney9

You picked up on that too, eh Mike?

H9

Face

heiney9 wrote: »

You picked up on that too, eh Mike?

H9

Yep, reverse snobbery at its best.

cfrizz

It's not reverse snobbery, I simply have not forgotten where I started while a good many of you have. We all have to start somewhere at a price that we can afford. Not everyone can afford brand new Rotel's, Parasound's, Sunfire's, B&K's etc. and not everyone is comfortable spending hundreds of dollars on used gear. Companies like Emotiva and Outlaw Audio allow people to get in on the joy of seperates without going broke, and have the benefit of a warranty.

We have had this discussion ad-nauseum about the cost and name brand vs quality several times. There will always be more and better gear out there, that doesn't mean that Emotiva & Outlaw aren't any good and won't be just right for other people.

tommyt21

I think what gets most people irritated is how a product is portrayed. (Marketing said budget product as HiFi)
Is my Emotiva XPA-3 a Audiophile or Midrange Amp? Nope. Could I have done better in the used market? Have no idea, to lazy to look.
Does it work for me for $600 bones in my modest Hometheater ? Yep. (pretty blue lights, lol)
Did I notice a huge difference in sound quality after adding it to my Pioneer SC-35?.ehh not much,
Should you try their 30 day trial and experince it for yourself...? Maybe

nooshinjohn

Life is like a box of chocolates...

Amherst

One thing I see missing with this thread is more discussion about synergy between components. Contrary to what the OP states the Monitor series can actually be a very revealing set of speakers given their price range. The tweeters used in this lineup are quite capable. Personally they are even a bit over the top for me and can be helped with a little taming.
One way to tame the tweets and bring out bottom end is a neutral sounding amp with a healthy dose of power. While I have no experience with emo most reports describe the sound as forward on the high end. Exactly opposite of really what suits monitor series speakers best. I do know monitors and a laid back amp like a B&K are a happy marriage. A Parasound is another good choice, there are many more. Monitors love power too, they really open up when pushed a bit. Avoid a forward sounding amp with monitors and your ears will thank you.

bklynNupe

tommyt21 wrote: »

I think what gets most people irritated is how a product is portrayed. (Marketing said budget product as HiFi)
Is my Emotiva XPA-3 a Audiophile or Midrange Amp? Nope. Could I have done better in the used market? Have no idea, to lazy to look.
Does it work for me for $600 bones in my modest Hometheater ? Yep. (pretty blue lights, lol)
Did I notice a huge difference in sound quality after adding it to my Pioneer SC-35?.ehh not much,
Should you try their 30 day trial and experince it for yourself...? Maybe

As someone who purchased two emotiva amps new when I was starting out in this hobby ( 2008 ), I pretty much have to agree with this. I will say my emotiva amps have been extremely reliable with zero issues. I originally purchased them for HT and 2-channel. Once I purchased my first pair of musical speakers I found the emotiva amps to be capable but a bit harsh.
With a great recommendation from Face, I picked up a W4S amp for my 2-channel rig. For HT, the emotiva amps work fine. Mind you, I'm really not that pressed to upgrade anything in my HT set up. I would rather focus my modest resources and attention on my 2-channel rig. So I guess what I'm saying is emotiva is fine for a affordable HT rig. If you are not experienced with navigating the used market, new+warranty+good reviews is a safe bet for someone starting out in this hobby.
If I was purchasing today with a bit of knowledge under my belt, I would purchase emotiva amps on the used market for HT. For 2-channel music, I would look elsewhere.

RamZet

I dont have to much hands on time with emo gear, but the only time I have seen with it hasnt been good. The stuff I have seen is always broken. My company was a large McIntosh installer back in the day (30 years ago). That gear is still in a few homes today. We have some newer McIntosh gear out there too. The stuff is awesome, you cant beat their sound. Even some newer high end gear like krell, rotel, and bryston dont sound as good. There is no way emo can sound as good as McIntosh.
This isnt to say they dont make a good sounding amp. I would put my money in Rotel before emo.

mantis

pearsall001 wrote: »

I won't put too much stock into what the vast majority here say about Emo gear. They pretty much go into a rant & are about ready to fall off the deep end bashing the entire line. According to them it simply doesn't live up to their "audiophile" pedegree...insert laughter here. I wonder how many have actually heard any Emo products???? I would stick to the pro reviews & read up on other forums. The Emo line is pretty well respected except of course here. Emo comes with a return policy which gives you the opportunity to hear it for yourself & sculpt your own opinion.

I can't see how anyone can judge a company like Emotiva without listening to it first. I for one looked over their products and think they look great for the money. I would love to take a few of them for a test drive. They look nicely built , nicely powered and have RCA and Balanced outs, Sweet.

They might suck **** they might not. I'll never know until I have one here in my system. The money back deal seems worthy to me , If I was looking for a amp , I would strongly consider one.

mantis

heiney9 wrote: »

The politicians have nothing on a few posters in this thread. Talk about spin and half truths and out of context slinging. A couple of you should run for local office or take the horse to pasture you rode in on.

H9

Just curious , did you check out a Emotiva amp? If so what did you think?

Jetmaker737

I started with an Emo amp. It was a safe purchase with the warranty and all. I liked it at the time and when I went to sell it, it went immediately and I lost very little money on it. I bought a used Aragon amp to replace it. Did it kick butt on the Emo? Hell yes, it most certainly did. But I don't think I ever would have jumped into separates with a used amp. Too much risk without really knowing the benefits. So I can say the Emo worked out for me.

heiney9

mantis wrote: »

Just curious , did you check out a Emotiva amp? If so what did you think?

Yes, and I have posted my opinion in several threads over the years. Not going to rehash it once again for the 30th or 40th time. Not too bad for HT, certainly nothing special on the 2 ch front sums it for me.

H9

Toolfan66

heiney9 wrote: »

Yes, and I have posted my opinion in several threads over the years. Not going to rehash it once again for the 30th or 40th time. Not too bad for HT, certainly nothing special on the 2 ch front sums it for me.

H9

My thoughts exactly...


W4S won't break the bank and they are leaps and bounds over Emotiva....


A lot still comes down to synergy though..

polkfarmboy

mantis wrote: »

I can't see how anyone can judge a company like Emotiva without listening to it first. I for one looked over their products and think they look great for the money. I would love to take a few of them for a test drive. They look nicely built , nicely powered and have RCA and Balanced outs, Sweet.

If I was looking for a amp , I would strongly consider one.

Dan I think its about time to remove the " My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time " in your signature

starkiller

Just bought an Emotiva 5-channel amp for my h/t as the 5 Marantz MA500 monoblocs were not to my wife's liking For the h/t system I am not that concerned about SQ, its good enough to have a 30-day return policy,free shipping in the U>S>A and a 5-year transferable warranty, sounded good to me so I bit. I strongly suggest folks test out Emotiva, seems to me you can't hardly loose.

Will report back once I get the amp and test it out.