Which AVR would be a good match with my new TSi500's? (for a newbie!)

aussiematt

Hi guys,

Firstly a quick introduction. I am a young Australian (complete newbie to HT) that is about to purchase a set of TSi500 Fronts, TSi200 Bookshelf's as Rears, CS20 Centre, & a PSW110 Subwoofer. They are all coming in the cherry wood grain finish as i think they are irresistible. :cheesygrin: That much of the decision making process is clear. Here is where i get a bit more confused. The choice of the AVR, they all do different things, but are very difficult to compare in store on the same speakers.

Now, being an Australian (is great but...) we have significantly reduced access to the sort of amps/AVR's that you guys have often suggested throughout other posts on other threads. Ie: we dont have access (through retailers) to brands like Sony, Sherwood, Harman Kardon, Pioneer. We have access to Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha, and some Marantz gear. Obviously we could go directly through the company themselves, but i would like to have a retailer involved incase of return issues and things like that, which is also why I'm hesitant to buy from somewhere like Amazon, because if there is an issue, I'm still gonna have to pay for shipping, which is around $50 one way. :sad:

The lines that we get from these manufacturers are:
Yamaha RXV*73 line eg: 373,473,573,673,773
Denon AVR-**13 line eg: 1713,2113,2313
Onkyo TXNR*1* line eg : 313,414,515,616,717,818
Marantz SR5006
Note: these are their current models, we have access to some older models (still BNIB). Would this be an option, ie: buying an older model at a discount. Because some threads that I've read have said that not a lot changes electronics wise, its mostly the features/connectivity that changes. If i found one with the right connectivity i could save some cash! Thoughts?

The other thing worth a mention here is that these receivers in Australia are also twice the price of anything i found on Amazon :sad: I guess that the price you pay to be Australian! haha. What I am more interested in now is the features that I should be looking for in an AVR, whether particular brands pair nicely with the TSi's etc. In terms of things like dual HDMI outputs, that would be nice, but probably never be used, same as a second zone audio channel. I liked the fact that the Onkyo had built in functionality with Spotify, however, again I would probably use my boxee box for that as the interface on that is so slick. I also have no need for AVR's with airplay as I have NO apple devices with wifi, just a 5 year old iPod Nano, I must be the only one in my generation that doesn't have one but anyway. Network connectivity I'm undecided on, but is probably unnecessary as I will have a ton of other devices that can do that job. (however that is a good thing about the onkyo's their wifi adapters are $20! whereas other brands charge like $100, which i would never pay)

This next bit will probably be sacrilege for the Audiophiles that frequent these posts so brace yourselves. I realise that getting a power amp to run the TSi500's will make them run louder and better (simpleton language there) but, at this stage (being my first system, just out of university etc) I don't want to include a Power amp, thus i think that Preouts for the front channels is also unnecessary. I will need at least 4 HDMI inputs. It must have an audio return channel (ARC), and HDMI pass-through on standby. I am also not too worried about power output per channel, as I don't really like having my bones shaken as I watch a movie, I want to be immersed in the movie itself. Plus the amp that they were hooked up with instore pushed them more than loud enough for my liking (Denon AVR1713) approx 100Wx5Ch. The salesman said that the Denon paired really well with the Polk because they are both naturally bright. He also suggested maybe bumping it up to the AVR2113 for a bit of a power boost.

It does seem however that the Onkyo's offer really good features at a budget price, the likes of which you have to pay A$1000+ on the Denon's to get. However, the Onkyo TXNR616, which would be the one I'd pick for myself at this stage (feature wise) has had VERY average reviews online usually regarding firmware issues. Have these been fixed? Are the a good match with the TSi's anyway? I would say that my budget is probably between A$600-$800, which means that receivers worth around US$400-$600 on Amazon are within range, is this too limiting?
I honestly haven't had too much of a look at the Yamaha's, no real reason why.

I greatly appreciate the input that you guys have on these threads, and you have already taught me heaps from all the other posts that i have read. Any help would be great, and opinions/experience/knowledge on anything related to anything I've mentioned here would be great.

Cheers Guys,

Aussie Matt.

Visual Kit:
TV- Samsung 46" FHD 3D LED UA46D6400
PVR- Panasonic 500GB Blu-ray Recorder DMRBWT720
Media- Dlink Boxee Box
Gaming- Xbox 360

Audio Kit:
AVR- Undecided
Fronts- Polk TSi500's
Rears- Polk TSi200's
Centre- Polk CS20
Subwoofer- Polk PSW110

Other:
Monster MC1000 HDMI cabling
Monster HT800 surge board with noise filtration
Monster Speaker Cabling

jbooker82

Get one that at least has Analog Pre outs for all channles. That way you can add an external amp later on down the road.

For Onkyo that would be TX-NR717 or higher. I would also want to keep it the current modle year. That way your getting the latest in technology with the surround sound processing. AVR's get out dated fast engough, no need to give your new system a head start in the ageing department.

cnh

Welcome to Club Polk!

You may have reduced access to AVRs but all of those are fine (Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, Marantz).

Denons are NOT bright but a bit warmish as are Marantz. Both of those would be good matches for the TSIs IMO! But I wouldn't rule out pre-outs because you WILL clip those TSI towers with an entry level receiver at some point or other and that will at least blow a driver or two. Better safe than sorry, even if you don't play music loud, movies have spectacular dynamic swings which might fry something even if you're at moderate volume (a sound spike).

I run a Monitor 70 grounded HT system (This is the predecessor to your TSI-500) and use a 51 lbs Onkyo TX-SR 805 to do it. Pre-outs and an "honest" 130 watts x 5 output. Pretty happy with it. But my Denon would actually be a slightly better match with the M-70s for music only! The Onkyo does music well enough but it LOVES HT!

That Denon 1713 will run out of steam pretty quickly when taxed! It's only 18.3 lbs compared to my Onkyo 50.9 lbs. Not even half the weight. Although gross weight is NOT everything, in this case it is a relatively good indicator of how much power a unit can put out. You don't have to buy a 50+ pound AVR but weight matters some unless you have a Class D amp?

cnh

aussiematt

Hi cnh,

Thanks for your reply,
So basically you are saying that if you have the ability to pre-out the AVR if a driver does go you can then push them harder through the use of a dedicated power amp to compensate for the blown driver, as opposed to getting a new tower?
As for the class D amp comment i have no idea what that is sorry!
I get that the heavier they are typically the better off you will be, but the TXNR818 which is of similar spec to yours (i believe) i way out of my price range, it is on amazon at $1199, and retailers in oz would probably sell it for $2k+
The txnr717 may be the best way to get the best of both worlds, as jbooker also mentioned it too has preouts.
Thanks for your knowledge in this area!

cnh

An Onkyo 717 will do you fine and if you add an amp to it down the line you won't be able to tell the difference between it and an 818. I know these are a bit expensive, down under!

What I'm say above is that if you have more power it is LESS likely you will reach the clipping (distortion) level of an amp so that it is LESS likely you will blow any drivers. Of course, if you do blow a driver, it has to be replaced regardless. It won't repair itself? On the plus side you have the Polk warranty which should help with that.

In short, running a power amp of 200 watts x 2 on the TSI-500s at louder volumes you'll be less likely to blow any drivers than running that Denon 1713 at slightly lower volumes. Contrary to popular opinion TOO MUCH clean power does NOT destroy your speakers, too little does.

Class D amps are digital amps that have near 90 percent efficiency so that they can run cooler and weigh a lot less than an A/B amp (of a similar power rating) which is what most of what you're looking at are! About 50 percent or more of the power used by an A/B amp is wasted as heat, does not do anything useful. Class A amps are even less efficient at about 25 percent or so and are usually very heavy for their wattage output and get "really" hot! But some sound absolutely fabulous!

cnh

aussiematt

That all makes a lot of sense, is there anywhere on the manufacturers spec sheets that tells you the overall effective power input/output ratio? did you mean that something like the TXNR717 is a class D or A/B? Will the Onkyo pair as well with the TSi's as a Denon would?

cnh

All the amps you're looking at are A/B. Just about all AVRs are. Onkyos sound fine with Polk speakers, they're a bit more neutral sounding, maybe a tad "brighter" than a Denon which makes them an excellent choice for HT.

The only manufacturer of mass market AVRs that makes an AVR that has class D amplification is Pioneer Elite. And only in their very highest most expensive models. There are other high end manufacturers of amps that also produce some class Ds as well (Rotel being among them).

Most manufacturer sites have spec sheets on their products, but most cannot be fully trusted as they manipulate the ratings for their "all channels driven" tests. So that an 80 watt x 7 channel AVR is probably only "really" putting out 40 watts or so when it is actually driving all 7 channels. That's why I refer to my Onkyo above as an "honest" 130 watts by 5, because this is an independent bench test not done by Onkyo.

Even the newer Onkyo 818 is NOT as powerful as my older 805. The build is a little lighter, the transformer smaller, etc. Cost saving maneuvers because more features have been added and you have to save some money somewhere!

cnh