Should I upgrade to the LSi15's

mikejl46

I have a Pioneer sc 25 receiver, Pioneer CS-G403 (30-20kHz)(6 ohms)(150W) speakers that I purchased about 20 years ago. I couldn't believe what i was missing and how good these speakers sounded when I upgraded 20 years ago. Even today connected to my Pioneer sc 25 they sound great.

I'm thinking about upgrading to the LSi15's and I was wondering how much of an improvement the LSi15's will have over the CS-G403. It hard for me to believe that anything can sound better than the CS-G403's, or will it be like, I can't believe what I was missing all these years when I up grade to the LSi15's.
I also have an old Carver A-400x http://www.carversound.com/carver-amplifiers/a-400x/ that I would use with the LSi15's.

Will there be a big difference in sound quality, I listen 100% music.

Thanks,

Mike

pyrocyborg

Will there be a difference? Sure.

Will it be the difference you want? I don't know...

Will it be better than your speakers? Only your ears could tell. I mean, the Vifa tweeter could be a good "newcomer" in your system, but I doubt that you were missing parts of the music, except in very high frequencies. Your pioneers are most probably very listenable speakers, but maybe they don't have very open high frequencies. So maybe you could gain some detail by moving to a pair of LSi15. However, keep in mind that not everyone likes "detail" and it might even sound strange to you.

I do believe they are not "audiophile" grade speakers, nor are the LSi... but I think it's more what people could qualify as a bass heavy/very warm speaker with an hint of detail, from what I can read on audiokarma.

Apparently that moding it's crossover/caps will help them gain a lot of detail/imaging, which would probably what you would obtain by switching to LSi. Also, keep in mind that older speakers performances might be altered due to rotting and such... with time, you just get used to this, considering that it was probably a gradual "degradation".

However, I do not know if you would like the LSi: You most probably will, but I couldn't tell you to change your speakers ASAP and never look back. As the LSi15 are on clearance, I could say that if you have 1000$ spare, you could give them a try... Try Acoustic Sound Design or Sound Distributors and use coupon code TV15 if you want to pull the trigger. It should come down to 930ish including shipping.

P-S: did you have your speakers on stands? They seem to work better that way.

dorokusai

Welcome Mike.

Why would you say that they couldn't possibly sound better? That's not a great pair of loudspeakers to begin with and not my choice of classic vintage sound. Pioneer had a couple models that I recall being very neat like the HPM-150 in particular and I've heard a bunch more.

Actually picked up a pair of horns from a CSA series speaker that a friend was looking for over a couple years, just last week. Thankfully, you've loved them all these years and that's great. You dont know what you've been missing so the choice is an excellent one for starters.

Is there a reason for the LSi15 in particular? Why not a foot dipper like the LSi7? What other vintage speakers do you have experience with?

Mark

HHStuart

If you like classical, especially symphonic music, I would say yes.
The next step is to get into SACD's, if you haven't already.

NewHTguy

At $340/pair new the Lsi7s are a pretty safe way to see if you like the sound. I will admit to prefering mine with a small sub. My Lsi9's should be arriving today. I'm eager to see how the 7s and 9s compare. I'm sure the 9s will go deeper, but I suspect will be cleaner in the mids and highs.

pyrocyborg

NewHTguy wrote: »

At $340/pair new the Lsi7s are a pretty safe way to see if you like the sound. I will admit to prefering mine with a small sub. My Lsi9's should be arriving today. I'm eager to see how the 7s and 9s compare. I'm sure the 9s will go deeper, but I suspect will be cleaner in the mids and highs.

My LSi7 should be arriving tomorrow Can't wait to get owned by UPS brokerage fees... lol

Anyways, back to topic... As NewHTguy said, you could probably try a pair of LSi9. You can't go wrong and if you don't like them, you can sell them with probably only a small loss (or send them back and cover shipping fees). If I recall well, my mother had some Pioneer speakers a few years back (those were 1980 speakers). When she changed to polk RTi, she could say that she heard a lot of new frequencies, sound was cristal clear and all... but way too clear! Polk LSi do not suffer from this problem: They are clear and detailed without being "muffled" or "bright" from what I can read.

What I wanted to say in my first post is that no everyone likes the LSi sound, even if it's probably easier to like than the TSi/RTi sound, as they are more musical. I mean, some people prefer BOSE speakers over everything, while others could only swear by a very detailed speaker. I've seen people prefer a pair of 200$ BOSE over 2000$ Totem Acoustic ones. Everyone taste is different, but I guess it might offer you a new sound, which you will most probably like.

At these prices, you get a lot of a musical speaker for your money (not that much at full MSRP). Anyways, who buys a speaker at full price? :redface:

Drenis

Let me know what they charge ya eh?

mikejl46

Thanks, everyone

I think I will give the LSI9's a try. All the reviews I have read for these speakers are very good. They would also be easy to send back or sell if I didn't like the sound.

How are the bass on the LSI9's?

Thanks again,

Mike

pyrocyborg

Once powered adequatly (as you'll do with your carver), bass seem to be really great from what I read. Sure, to some people, a sub might be necessary, but I guess that in a small to medium room, they should fill it easily. As long as you don't like overwhelming bass, you probably won't need to add a sub later. If it doesn't suit your tastes, you could try with a sub, but I'm sure they will even without.

People complaining about the lack of bass were either using a 8 ohm receiver (read those reviews... a lot of people giving those bad boys a bad rating are actually using a 8 ohm receiver with barely enough power to drive a pair of RTi bookshelf; OR they are thinking that they could get the bass extension similar to a tower, OR tested it in a very incorrect room (big box stores) with incorrect amp settings.

By the way, many people who review bookshelf speakers don't even know how to set them properly : they position a rear ported speaker near wall or a on bookshelf because "it gives more bass" and they are surprised that it sound muffled! They don't even care to place them on proper stands and they say that their old towers sound way better, when a properly positionned pair of bookshelf paired with a sub are capable of the same feats...

I mean, even a pair of RTiA3 can have a decent amount of bass even when on their stands and far from the rear wall. It wasn't ground/wall shacking bass, but enough to make my neighbourgs angry and to feel some punch. Considering the LSi9 goes a little bit lower from their spec, it might sound very good, at least to my taste. I mean, even a pair of RTi4 had a decent amount of bass for a 5 1/4 driver (I suspect the LSi7 will be better, considering it goes 5 hz lower and 7 hz lower,-3dB), I think two 5 1/4 might do the job as one of them has it's crossover set at lower frequencies.

@Drenis, you can have an accurate estimate from the website "http://www.thefinalcost.com/" . You enter your product's price and shipping, the carrier you're using or planning to use, and press on calculate. For me, it ends up to be a 110$ from which 60$ could have been saved if they used USPS... however, as I would have paid 50 to 60$ in shipping, it would have been the same. But still, it's a deal IMO. Not the best deal ever, but still: I mean, even here, you can get a brand new pair of RTiA3 for 410$ including quebec provincial tax at Futureshop ... so, for a mere 70$, I have a way better speaker (aka more musical), and also better looking, at least, to me. Sounds like a deal, even if it could have been better...

I know some people in the US had a brand new pair for 100$ a few years ago... that was a deal!:eek:

photocrazy

pyrocyborg wrote: »

My LSi7 should be arriving tomorrow Can't wait to get owned by UPS brokerage fees... lol

Anyways, back to topic... As NewHTguy said, you could probably try a pair of LSi9. You can't go wrong and if you don't like them, you can sell them with probably only a small loss (or send them back and cover shipping fees). If I recall well, my mother had some Pioneer speakers a few years back (those were 1980 speakers). When she changed to polk RTi, she could say that she heard a lot of new frequencies, sound was cristal clear and all... but way too clear! Polk LSi do not suffer from this problem: They are clear and detailed without being "muffled" or "bright" from what I can read.

What I wanted to say in my first post is that no everyone likes the LSi sound, even if it's probably easier to like than the TSi/RTi sound, as they are more musical. I mean, some people prefer BOSE speakers over everything, while others could only swear by a very detailed speaker. I've seen people prefer a pair of 200$ BOSE over 2000$ Totem Acoustic ones. Everyone taste is different, but I guess it might offer you a new sound, which you will most probably like.

At these prices, you get a lot of a musical speaker for your money (not that much at full MSRP). Anyways, who buys a speaker at full price? :redface:

you can try third party brokers like http://baycitybrokers.com. They can clear packages from ups/fedex for $20. I have no experience with them though.

photocrazy

NewHTguy wrote: »

I'm sure the 9s will go deeper, but I suspect will be cleaner in the mids and highs.

Do you mean the highs and mids would be same on both ?

pyrocyborg

photocrazy wrote: »

you can try third party brokers like http://baycitybrokers.com. They can clear packages from ups/fedex for $20. I have no experience with them though.

Should have I known a few days ago... Also, there was a problem with UPS (as always): My shipment was invisible until it came for duties. I didn't even know it was already shipped that it was too late for me to clear it myself.

Too bad, but next time I shall try them. For 25 bucks, you can save something like 35$ for a 350-500 item, which is probably better than nothing! Sure, if you live near a border agency, you can do it for free I think, but only a few major cities have one near.

Good luck btw if you can get a pair! You could try them, and almost have the same final cost than I had.

mikejl46

pyrocyborg, thanks for the coupon code

My LSi9's will be arriving tomorrow. Hopefully I will hear what I have been missing for the last 20 years.

pyrocyborg

Great! Keep us on touch

PSOVLSK

mikejl46 wrote: »

How are the bass on the LSI9's?

I think it's largely dependent on room size. I run mine in a room about 11x11 with 12' ceiling and there's plenty of bass. A big open room might leave you wanting more bass.

I run mine with a Carver tfm-55. Not sure how that compares to the Carver you'll be using, but I'm happy with the combo.

Let us know what you think when you get them hooked up AND setup...correctly. Leave some space between the back wall.

mikejl46

I built some speaker stands from an old table I had in the garage for the Lsi 9's arrival

pyrocyborg

Looks great Mikejl, but I can see a certain problem coming!

I'm not sure we asked you anything about that, but what is your listening position and distance from the speakers (for example, are you on a couch, at 12 feet from the speakers, etc.)? I ask you this particular question because generally speaking, LSi Vifa tweeters are very very (very) directional: if you're not, let's say, within a 15 degree angle from the tweeter, you start losing details (either vertically or horizontally). When it comes to listening height, the tweeters should be in a 15 degree angle from your ears when you're listening to them. When you're in a close listening position (let's say 9 feet), something like 4 or 5 inches can make a lot of difference when it comes to what details you'll hear. However, when you're sitting at 15 or 16 feet, it takes something like 10 inches to really hear a difference. I do not know your listening distance, nor your stands height, but if they're 18 inches tall, your tweeter will end up at something like 25'' from the floor level, while most people ears level is at 35'' when sitting on a couch. As you can see, if you're sitting far from your speakers (15-16 feet), it won't be an issue. However, if you're close like I am, I need 30'' stands to have my LSi7 at ear level (yeah, I'm tall ).

People almost always put their LSi9 on top of 30'' or 24'' stands, depending on their preference, their personal height and listening distance. But try and experiment before doing anything else! By the way, those are neat looking stands, is it the same stain than your furniture?

pyrocyborg

Please note that I didn't calculate anything according to angles in my last post, it was straight out of my head, and I could consider them mere approximations.

All I can tell you is that in my case, I am sitting at 9 feet from my speakers, which are toed-in for maximum imaging. My LSi7 tweeters are about at 38-39'' from floor level (being that LSi7 tweeters are located a few inches higher in the speaker compared to the LSi9), and they are something like 1 inch higher than my ear level when I sit correctly on my couch. If I do sit in "lazy style" (lowering my body from a couple of inches), I end up listening a little bit less detail and bass, so it does matter if your listening height has a 5-6'' difference from your speakers tweeter height.

When you stand up for example, you'll definitely hear less details, even if they're on 30'' stands.

And sorry again for my grammar (and/or some incorrect words), I'm french. :rolleyes:

mikejl46

I received the lsi9 speakers today and they sound great, but I'm a little concerned. If crank it up pretty loud the right speaker dose some poping with the heavy bass. it just dosen'r sound good. It sound like something is going to break. I can turn up my old spealers all the way up with no problem. Is the speaker shot already?

Edit: I guess it wouldn't be that big of a problem because I could never listen to them that loud for more than a few minutes any way.

mikejl46

pyrocyborg wrote: »

Looks great Mikejl, but I can see a certain problem coming!

I'm not sure we asked you anything about that, but what is your listening position and distance from the speakers (for example, are you on a couch, at 12 feet from the speakers, etc.)? I ask you this particular question because generally speaking, LSi Vifa tweeters are very very (very) directional: if you're not, let's say, within a 15 degree angle from the tweeter, you start losing details (either vertically or horizontally). When it comes to listening height, the tweeters should be in a 15 degree angle from your ears when you're listening to them. When you're in a close listening position (let's say 9 feet), something like 4 or 5 inches can make a lot of difference when it comes to what details you'll hear. However, when you're sitting at 15 or 16 feet, it takes something like 10 inches to really hear a difference. I do not know your listening distance, nor your stands height, but if they're 18 inches tall, your tweeter will end up at something like 25'' from the floor level, while most people ears level is at 35'' when sitting on a couch. As you can see, if you're sitting far from your speakers (15-16 feet), it won't be an issue. However, if you're close like I am, I need 30'' stands to have my LSi7 at ear level (yeah, I'm tall ).

People almost always put their LSi9 on top of 30'' or 24'' stands, depending on their preference, their personal height and listening distance. But try and experiment before doing anything else! By the way, those are neat looking stands, is it the same stain than your furniture?

I'm about 12' from the speakers. I made the stands so the tweeters would be ear level when sitting in my recliner half reclined, the way I like when I listen to music.

I used the same stain that matches all the oak furniture in my living room.

Thanks again,

Mike

Drenis

pyrocyborg wrote: »

And sorry again for my grammar (and/or some incorrect words), I'm french. :rolleyes:

Lol... You can only use that excuse so many times.

mikejl46 wrote: »

I received the lsi9 speakers today and they sound great, but I'm a little concerned. If crank it up pretty loud the right speaker dose some poping with the heavy bass. it just dosen'r sound good. It sound like something is going to break. I can turn up my old spealers all the way up with no problem. Is the speaker shot already?

Edit: I guess it wouldn't be that big of a problem because I could never listen to them that loud for more than a few minutes any way.

What are you powering them with? Remember, these are little speakers, not big ones. Allow them to break down now. Send clean 4-ohm power to them and enjoy. You should never bottom those speakers out. You obviously misinterpreted how hard you push them while matching your larger speakers.

mikejl46

Carver A-400x http://www.carversound.com/carver-amplifiers/a-400x/

It's only doing it with one speaker.

I might have got carried away. It's hard to remember their little speakers, when the LSI9's sound bigger than my 15 inch Pioneer speakers.

I hope I did'nt hurt them by pushing them to hard.

Drenis

LSi9 Recommended Amplifier Power 20 - 200 w/channel

Carver A-400x 4-ohm FTC rated power/ch 300 W with plenty of headroom.

Depends on the materiel being played too. And yeah... no competition to 15" drivers. Cross them @ 80hz and add a sub THEN go to town. I know it can be easy to see the limits or what speakers can do.

pyrocyborg

Solved! Damn that bass knob! :cheesygrin:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?130060-LSI9-Popping-sounds