Can't decide on which speakers..

Mudfrog

I'm going back and forth between the Monitor 40's or Monitor 60's. Basically it comes down to mounting the Monitor 40's on the wall or running the 60's on the floor. I'm not interested in the 50's as they are basically the same as the 40's.

My center channel will hang from a mantel that is 6' tall. I will angle the center so it hits ear level on my couch (about 10 - 12 ft away). If I go with the Monitor 40's (leaning towards this) I will mount them where my current L/R speakers are. They are mounted about 5.5 - 6' to each side of the tv and 6' up the wall. If I go with the 60's I will sit them on each side of the fire place. Would movies seem odd having the L/R speakers so far below the tv level?

The speakers will be driven by an Onkyo TX-NR509 receiver and I already have a BIC F12 sub. I'll also match the L/R speakers with a CS1 center and Monitor 30 rears. Usage will be around 70% tv / movies and 30% music.

Conradicles

For that set-up it will sound much better with the 40's on the wall and welcome to the forum!

codyc1ark

Conradicles wrote: »

For that set-up it will sound much better with the 40's on the wall and welcome to the forum!

+1 you would have a funky soundstage with the 60s on the floor and the centernso high. Welcome to CP and good luck!

Lietuvis91

Yes, with that receiver, m40s or m50s, for sure. If you're doing bookshelves for Home Theater use though,and don't already have the m30s and the cs1, consider rtia3s. It's a step up from the monitor line, and work better for HT purposes for not that much more money.

Mudfrog

Thanks for the replies everyone. That is what I was thinking as well but wanted to be sure.

I'll also look into the rtia3's but the other 5 speakers can be had for around $300-350 which makes them an incredible deal. I'd be willing to go up to around $500 maybe slightly higher if it really is that BIG of a difference, although I'm sure I'd be fine with the Monitors as well. Anything is a step up from the 12 year old set of Yamaha satellites that I'm currently using.

edit: just looked at the rtia3. They look nice but one pair would be more than I can get the Monitor 30's, 40's and CS1 for combined :eek: lol

Geoff4rfc

codyc1ark wrote: »

+1 you would have a funky soundstage with the 60s on the floor and the centernso high. Welcome to CP and good luck!

I disagree however, I do believe placement is important.

In one of my bedroom set ups, my center was mounted up 1" from the ceiling above the flat panel centered on the wall. I had M70's out to the corners of the wall, elevated and aimed downward at the listening position, the center was also aimed to the same spot.

Space was critical so I took advantage of what I had and still had a 7.1 set up in a bedroom measuring 14x10 and the SQ pretty awesome after audessy set up.

I do agree that the 40's would be recommended in this case solely for having the CS1 and not the CS2.

larry777

I would go with the M60's. You will still get a good sound field even though your center speaker is higher. I had a set up like that once and with proper calibration your sound field will come together nicely. I would rather have my front 3 more in line with the TV ( center of the room ). The 40's would be too far apart ( wide ), for me anyway.

Mudfrog

larry777 wrote: »

I would go with the M60's. You will still get a good sound field even though your center speaker is higher. I had a set up like that once and with proper calibration your sound field will come together nicely. I would rather have my front 3 more in line with the TV ( center of the room ). The 40's would be too far apart ( wide ), for me anyway.

Is there a reason you say the 40's would be to wide for you? Just personal preference?

I'm used to my L/R being that far apart and I think it sounds pretty good. I had it manually set up with an old Pioneer receiver and it was pretty good. However once I got the Onkyo and used Audyssey to set it up it made an incredible difference.

larry777

Somewhat personal preference, but also sound wise. It would seem easier to me to get the best sound field if your speakers were more central. That way your sound is mixing more natural into the whole room with your other speakers. When further apart like that, you are trying to bring the sound more to the center of your room ( one direction ) The sound moving from the 40's towards the outside walls would have less impact in your room,I would think. Think of a 2 channel placement the same way. Which position of the speakers would give you the best sound ? Speakers moved apart closer to the outside walls or your speakers more central ? The 60's are also the better speakers giving you more future options to consider. Is your sitting position more to the center of the room ?

TNHNDYMAN

I'd go w/ 60's on the outside- due to them being better w/ music as well as I personally don't think it matter much for front soundstage on movies them being wide. The MOST important part of movies is dialogue and I would definately go w/ the CS2 as close to ear level when seated as possible without messing up the overall look of the room. I've had the CS1 and it is fine but the 2 for just $30-40 more when newegg has them on sale is really a no brainer when it comes to best budget sound possible. YMMV- welcome to club polk

ViperZ

One important thing to consider is that the tweeters of the main speakers should be at your ear level. Would that work with the towers? If not, then bookshelves can be mounted at the proper height.

gtaudio

I agree with the above 60s on the outside.

dewey79

I love my setup like this.

Mudfrog

The floor standing speakers would be at ear level. The center will not be, however like I said I will angle the center towards me. How big of an improvement would the CS2 and 70's (still 30's rear) be for movies?

I guess if I'm going to do it right then I might as well spend an additional $150-200 and have something I'll be happy with for years.

Edit: Would my receiver be able to drive the CS2 and 70's?

la9ers

is that a 32" tv?

Syndil

IMO if you're going to use your system for music at all, then you should follow the rule of keeping the tweeters of your mains as close to ear-level as possible. The center-channel is tasked with sourcing dialog to your TV, so it will be fine. But if you mount your mains up high as well, then it will sound like the music is coming from over your head--since it will be.

I just encountered this same exact scenario with setting up a home theater for a friend, and we used Monitor 70s for the fronts. It did not sound in any way odd when listening to movies by having the front channels lower than the TV.

hochpt21

Mudfrog wrote: »

The floor standing speakers would be at ear level. The center will not be, however like I said I will angle the center towards me. How big of an improvement would the CS2 and 70's (still 30's rear) be for movies?

I guess if I'm going to do it right then I might as well spend an additional $150-200 and have something I'll be happy with for years.

Edit: Would my receiver be able to drive the CS2 and 70's?

I don't have much experience outside the monitor line, but I do have a fair amount within. The CS2 is a definite upgrade from the CS1 and the 70's as well over the 40's (or in my case 50's). I ended up changing my setups around as my 2 channel is the most used, but my setup of CS2, 70's, 30's and psw10 was amazing for movies. My sweet spot is approx 11' back, similar to yours, and the sound filled the room and was very powerfull. Considering the relatively little $ for the upgrades, and the fact that you say you will stick with the setup for awhile, definitely go with the CS2 and 70's.

This line is fairly easy to power, but you will have to upgrade the receiver. If you are patient, though, you can find a good used one to power you for $200-400.

dewey79

la9ers wrote: »

is that a 32" tv?

40" And it's not as high up or far away as it looks in the picture. lol

BlueFox

dewey79 wrote: »

I love my setup like this.

Doesn't it hurt your neck looking up like that?

Geoff4rfc

Mudfrog wrote: »

The floor standing speakers would be at ear level. The center will not be, however like I said I will angle the center towards me. How big of an improvement would the CS2 and 70's (still 30's rear) be for movies?

I guess if I'm going to do it right then I might as well spend an additional $150-200 and have something I'll be happy with for years.

Edit: Would my receiver be able to drive the CS2 and 70's?

You'll do well with the 70/CS2 combo for years to come. Your AVR will handle them esp if you do a 5.1 set instead of 7.1, you'll be able to utilize more power to the speakers.

Eventually you may want to send more power to your set up but a bigger avr say, the 709 or 809 with pre-outs will allow you to do that.

Mudfrog

BlueFox wrote: »

Doesn't it hurt your neck looking up like that?

That is how my tv is set up. It's the only place that makes sense in my room. I could use a stand but it would throw off the rest of the room and I have to make the wife happy. The bottom of my tv is 7' high, it's a 47".

hochpt21 wrote: »

I don't have much experience outside the monitor line, but I do have a fair amount within. The CS2 is a definite upgrade from the CS1 and the 70's as well over the 40's (or in my case 50's). I ended up changing my setups around as my 2 channel is the most used, but my setup of CS2, 70's, 30's and psw10 was amazing for movies. My sweet spot is approx 11' back, similar to yours, and the sound filled the room and was very powerfull. Considering the relatively little $ for the upgrades, and the fact that you say you will stick with the setup for awhile, definitely go with the CS2 and 70's.

This line is fairly easy to power, but you will have to upgrade the receiver. If you are patient, though, you can find a good used one to power you for $200-400.

Good to hear from someone upgrading from the 5.25s to 6.5s.

Geoff4rfc wrote: »

You'll do well with the 70/CS2 combo for years to come. Your AVR will handle them esp if you do a 5.1 set instead of 7.1, you'll be able to utilize more power to the speakers.

Eventually you may want to send more power to your set up but a bigger avr say, the 709 or 809 with pre-outs will allow you to do that.

I have no interest in upgrading the receiver right now, honestly I can't play it real loud anyway without making everyone upstairs mad. But in a few years I'm sure I'll be able to upgrade to a more powerful receiver.

Mudfrog

I'm thinking the 6.5's will give me some of the added midbass that I need to give the sub a break. Right now my subs crossover is set to 120 so it's pretty much playing at all times. If I can get this set up to primarily use the 70's down to what (60hz or is 80hz more acceptable?) then hopefully it will make the rest of the household happy at night. Right now I have to set my subs volume knob at 1.5 and +0 on the receiver.. at times it's still heard throughout the house :redface:

mdaudioguy

Having experience with towers (and center) located a few feet below my screen, I'd suggest using a Yamaha receiver with the Dialog Lift feature. Of course, that means mounting another pair of speakers at least as high as mid-screen - the 30s would work for this. I eventually found it slightly bothersome that all voices seemed to emanate from below, and Dialog Lift has been an excellent remedy. Not sure what other brands might offer a similar solution, if any. Ymmv.

Lietuvis91

Geoff4rfc wrote: »

You'll do well with the 70/CS2 combo for years to come. Your AVR will handle them esp if you do a 5.1 set instead of 7.1, you'll be able to utilize more power to the speakers.

I beg to differ...

This avr is good for small bookshelves at best. The M70s need power to be enoyable. I went from m60s to m70s with an even more powerful receiver and back to m60s because I couldn't stand the muddy sound of m70s as they are not fed enough power to do their job well. Yes the M70s had a bigger sound stage, but seriously lacked clarity and detail. Watching movies without being able to make out details was just not pleasant.

To the OP: In any HT setup, you want the best QUALITY over QUANTITY of sound because lots of muddy noise, is just useless. Smaller speakers, will be more enjoyable as they will fill the room with clean clear sound where you will be able to appreciate the detail your speakers will provide. You have a sub, so you have no need for the low end that the m70s would provide (which it isn't particularly good at anyway). I have done this and know that bigger is not better, if you don't have the juice to run it properly.

Mudfrog

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

I beg to differ...

This avr is good for small bookshelves at best. The M70s need power to be enoyable. I went from m60s to m70s with an even more powerful receiver and back to m60s because I couldn't stand the muddy sound of m70s as they are not fed enough power to do their job well. Yes the M70s had a bigger sound stage, but seriously lacked clarity and detail. Watching movies without being able to make out details was just not pleasant.

To the OP: In any HT setup, you want the best QUALITY over QUANTITY of sound because lots of muddy noise, is just useless. Smaller speakers, will be more enjoyable as they will fill the room with clean clear sound where you will be able to appreciate the detail your speakers will provide. You have a sub, so you have no need for the low end that the m70s would provide (which it isn't particularly good at anyway). I have done this and know that bigger is not better, if you don't have the juice to run it properly.

So in your opinion the M60's would be better or stick with the M40's?

I guess I was looking at going up to the M70's and CS2 as the CS2 would provide a better sound stage for movies. If it takes a new receiver to really get the most out of the 70's and CS2 then that could be an upgrade in a few months. I still think it would be a huge upgrade going up to the 70's and CS2 over the yamaha satellites I currently use.

Lietuvis91

I was under the impression that you wanted speakers to go with your current receviver and that you were going to stick with this for quiet some time. I think you can get the best out of your receiver by running nice bookshelf speakers, and be happy for a long time. The newbs on this forum have the bigger is better mentality, because the one thing they know for sure is that you plug in a bigger speaker and you get more sound! Which is true... but the catch is that it's not necessarily better sound, and in smaller rooms, with low power gear, bookshelves with a nice sub would sound better.

Anway, If you don't mind upgrading in a few months, then sure, go with the m70s and you will get to see them "evolve" as you add better gear.

Mudfrog

I would absolutely love to use this receiver as I already own it. That being said if it makes sense to upgrade it then I will entertain the idea. I'm starting to think about just going with my original setup though, I think it would be a better overall match and would surely last me a couple years. I ran the Yamaha satellites and 6" sub with an old pioneer receiver for 12 years. I'm a best bang for the buck kind of guy, it doesn't have to sound the best, but I want it to sound "good"..

dewey79

BlueFox wrote: »

Doesn't it hurt your neck looking up like that?

Not at all!

Geoff4rfc

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

I beg to differ...
This avr is good for small bookshelves at best. The M70s need power to be enoyable.

You don't have to beg, I'll let you differ Granted, the 70's do like power but I don't think it's necessary to have power to be enjoyable. The 70's have a high sensitivity and are pretty easy to push, especially if set to small and let the sub carry the bass, the midrange is improved.

Mudfrog wrote: »

I ran the Yamaha satellites and 6" sub with an old pioneer receiver for 12 years. I'm a best bang for the buck kind of guy, it doesn't have to sound the best, but I want it to sound "good"..

Dang, that being the case, you could run the 40's and be happy for the rest of your life :cheesygrin:

NewHTguy

Mudfrog wrote: »

I'm thinking the 6.5's will give me some of the added midbass that I need to give the sub a break. Right now my subs crossover is set to 120 so it's pretty much playing at all times. If I can get this set up to primarily use the 70's down to what (60hz or is 80hz more acceptable?) then hopefully it will make the rest of the household happy at night. Right now I have to set my subs volume knob at 1.5 and +0 on the receiver.. at times it's still heard throughout the house :redface:

I would worry about giving the sub a break. If anything your sub is taking some of the strain off your receiver!

Mudfrog

Geoff4rfc wrote: »

You don't have to beg, I'll let you differ Granted, the 70's do like power but I don't think it's necessary to have power to be enjoyable. The 70's have a high sensitivity and are pretty easy to push, especially if set to small and let the sub carry the bass, the midrange is improved.

Dang, that being the case, you could run the 40's and be happy for the rest of your life :cheesygrin:

Haha.. that's the point I'm trying to make. I don't mind spending the money "if" it's really going to be that big of a difference. I'd like to run the 70's / CS2 but if my receiver will not power them properly then I'll hold off. I'm going to stick with the CS1 and 30's. I just need to decide between the 40's and 60's. They both have their plus and minuses for me.