Light the torches, sharpen the spears......
Comments
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FWIW, I quite enjoy my Carver amp. It's only my first one into this hobby. But i bought it on the fact that I read good things about it. I almost bought a Crest amp due to lack of education. I've certainly enjoyed learning anout Bob and the things associated with him.
Opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one. As long as your happy. I'm sure someday I'll try something else, but for now I'm very content. I have friends that have heard my TFM-42 at full tilt and it's intimidating. I can't grasp that it can get better.
Such an expensive never ending hobby. -
Jealousy might make sense if any of us were fellow amplifier designers or peers but we're not, so that idea is just dumb. I also don't believe that anyone is 10 years old here, well, I can't speak for the whole thread or anything as it's just typed words I guess.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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I don't understand the hype around him or why people will exchange nasty words over someone's opinion if it doesn't align with their view of Nelson Pass or his accomplishments. Like the totally ABSURD amps for home use that practically require a forklift to move them. This is modest or progress ? Bob C. can sleep soundly tonight and put aside thoughts of his haters.
I, personally, hate that Donald Trump guy, guess I'll burn for that sentiment, someday.
If these things aren't "boastful", I don't know what is.:rolleyes:
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I AM jealous of that BBQ amp you gots that was driving the AR-9's at Luchow's house at P-Fest 2010. No need to bi-amp 9's with that thing around. I would love to have it for my own self for my own 9's in my own room. But, I'm deaf.
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Jealousy might make sense if any of us were fellow amplifier designers or peers but we're not, so that idea is just dumb. I also don't believe that anyone is 10 years old here, well, I can't speak for the whole thread or anything as it's just typed words I guess.
By that I would guess you are one of them with a chip on his shoulder towards Bob. When I said jealous I wasn't referring to the common but to the folks that actually have a stake in the design and manufacture of amplifiers in the class that Bob circles. You run with that "dumb" idea though Mark. Suits you well.Too much **** to list.... -
In fact "dumb" suits anybody that sits behind a desk tossing out ideas of "His stuff ain't all that". How about if YOU were all that you would have what he does and be the one being criticized and not the one being the anonymous critic ...Just sayin...Too much **** to list....
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Whether you like his approach or not Carver like Pass has contributed a lot to our hobby.
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Carver's products may not be the best out there. What I admire about him is that he enjoys it and has fun doing it. That's what this hobby is all about. Too often we split hairs and forget to just turn the switch on and enjoy the music.>
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>This message has been scanned by the NSA and found to be free of harmful intent.< -
I have the Sunfire TGA-5400 in my HT/SACD surround system, and love it. However, before I can make an opinion on the Bobster I need to know his feeling on interconnects and speaker wire.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
He pretty much "feels" that, wire is pretty much wire, much to the consternation of many of his devotees and Carverfest attendees.
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He pretty much "feels" that, wire is pretty much wire, much to the consternation of many of his devotees and Carverfest attendees.
If true then I do have to wonder about his ability to discern whether one circuit, or another circuit, sounds better. On the other hand, Beethoven was deaf, but was still able to compose.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
If true then I do have to wonder about his ability to discern whether one circuit, or another circuit, sounds better. On the other hand, Beethoven was deaf, but was still able to compose.
It's true, but he is able to discern good sound when he hears it, like the Joule/Manley/hot rodded Jolida/MIT/PS Audio/Polk SDA rig that smoked all the Carver rigs at CF one year.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
It's true, but he is able to discern good sound when he hears it, like the Joule/Manley/hot rodded Jolida/MIT/PS Audio/Polk SDA rig that smoked all the Carver rigs at CF one year.
LOL "One year" lol what about the other years?Too much **** to list.... -
I didn't bring that rig back. I recall another year the best sound came from a rig with Cary/Wright/Jolida/MIT/Tyler. Not minePolitical Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I get you Jesse. All I'm saying is people want to point out when someone beat Bob or when Bob had a set back or when Bob spilled some milk. I just have to wonder if all the speculation is so pertinent why doesn't it say "F1NUT" or "Heiney9" (not to group you two together lol) or SDA1C on the case of one of the best selling and largest followed audio designers products instead of "Carver"?
If everything by the rest of the designers was so great why are they taking the time to compare it to Bob's stuff? or Better yet Why are they even concerned with what he is doing? Just ignore him if he doesn't matter ...or if his product isn't a huge line of competition and in need of some bad publicity even if fabricated to some extent. Seems like a lot of hype for a guy that "isn't all that"
Arrogant ? Hell yes! Short and a little funny lookin? Yup! One hell of a amp designer? Uh Huh!.Too much **** to list.... -
I have the Sunfire TGA-5400 in my HT/SACD surround system, and love it. However, before I can make an opinion on the Bobster I need to know his feeling on interconnects and speaker wire.
Hehe. Two things I can't stand: Those intolerant of others' opinions on audio gear. And Bob Carver.b]Beach Audio[/b]: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet -
All I'm saying is people want to point out when someone beat Bob or when Bob had a set back or when Bob spilled some milk.
I think he brings at least some of that upon himself with his comments/claims. He certainly knows how to stir the pot. That said, I've hung out with him and would say he's a nice guy, easy to talk with and has a good sense of humor. He also builds some pretty damn good tube amps by anyone's standards.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Some of you don't hide your butt-hurt too well.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I think he brings at least some of that upon himself with his comments/claims. He certainly knows how to stir the pot. That said, I've hung out with him and would say he's a nice guy, easy to talk with and has a good sense of humor. He also builds some pretty damn good tube amps by anyone's standards.
Do you feel he stirs the pot with unfounded claims? I don't think so. I think he compares his products to which ever other product he chooses and he does so with facts and data that are undeniable. Comparing a 4k product to a 20 k product can in it's self create some dissension. I completely agree with the easy to talk to in a personal setting. I haven't spoken to him at his shop so I don't know what he is like (if he is any different) when he is at work.Too much **** to list.... -
Some of you don't hide your butt-hurt too well.
H9
No "butt-hurt" here on my part, just incredulity at all the childishness and hypocrisy. Carver stuff isn't the end-all best, never claimed it was, BUT.........with his shameless self promotion of his gear, he helped a lot of music lovers to want to upgrade from Panasonic, Audiovox, other junk "stereos". The Henry Ford of audio for the masses, if you will. But, juvenile haters are gonna hate, no matter what. Silly. -
More like the Emotiva of the 80's and 90's.... The Henry Ford of audio for the masses, if you will."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
I'll pick an emo over an Audiovox.......any day! course....I don't possess the much implied golden ear that the most outspoken here seem to think that they possess. How perfectly wonderful it must be for you select messiahs. For me, this competition/ hobby is primarily about the ability to play music with an acceptable/ reasonably reachable degree of high fidelity, the sap that ends up with the most expensive/esoteric "toys".......has missed the whole point in the process of "winning", IMO. BTW...I hate Kias and those who own/drive them !!!!!!! JK (no, really, I do)
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More like the Emotiva of the 80's and 90's...
Have you happened to actually read (and understand) your sublimely profound signature ? It seems more than a little applicable to your post, maybe I'm mistaken. -
Good gear, value pricing. Dirty ****.b]Beach Audio[/b]: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet -
I'll go so far as to add diabolical ! Does Bob Carver belong to the Taliban ? Hmmmmm....
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Considering I'm familiar with gear from both companies I mentioned, you are mistaken.Have you happened to actually read (and understand) your sublimely profound signature ? It seems more than a little applicable to your post, maybe I'm mistaken."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
My apologies, I don't ever see Emo producing an amp that sports 20 vacuum tubes so I'll accept, and, disagree with your analogy while admitting that Emo does fill the affordable gear void that Carver Audio's demise created. I guess I wrongly got the sense that you were "railing". Both of my teams lost in the playoffs today, I'm railing about that, for the time being.:cheesygrin:
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I'll pick an emo over an Audiovox.......any day! course....I don't possess the much implied golden ear that the most outspoken here seem to think that they possess. How perfectly wonderful it must be for you select messiahs. For me, this competition/ hobby is primarily about the ability to play music with an acceptable/ reasonably reachable degree of high fidelity, the sap that ends up with the most expensive/esoteric "toys".......has missed the whole point in the process of "winning", IMO. BTW...I hate Kias and those who own/drive them !!!!!!! JK (no, really, I do)
Sorry GDB, but it appears the only one missing the boat is you judging by the above post. We don't aspire to have the most expensive gear on the planet. Money doesn't always buy quality sound. That said, there are different levels of enjoyment to this hobby, and everyone's wallet is different. No sense knocking those who can afford better, and no sense knocking the ones who can't either. If audio at different levels had no bearing, we would all be listening to our Bose wave radio's and be calling it a day.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Isn't that what I said,sorta? I've been to several "salons" and audio shows and not many setups sounded better than mine at any price, a few certainly did/do, granted, but not $40,000.00* worth of better (or more)*. Course, in my old age I may have developed selective as well as deteriorated hearing abilities, thats why it's better that the young Turks with gold-er ears and fat wallets fight this thing out.
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By that I would guess you are one of them with a chip on his shoulder towards Bob. When I said jealous I wasn't referring to the common but to the folks that actually have a stake in the design and manufacture of amplifiers in the class that Bob circles. You run with that "dumb" idea though Mark. Suits you well.
And your point is what? I just called the statement dumb, not you but feel free to get personal, it's simply doesn't affect me, only you.
Not everyone has to like the same things the next guy does, that's why we all have the ability to state our opinion. As far as it being juvenile, fine, perhaps it is but again....who cares. I choose to consider him a rube and his gear is awful in my experience. If that gets you angry, you have far bigger issues than anything I can blurt out on here. I'll forget about this entire thread in.....three....two....CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
