Monitor's and a better AVR/AMP

tommyt21

Will or How much will the sound imporve if I go from my pio 1020 to a SC-35?

Monitor 60's, 40's 30's and CS20
Thanks in Advance
Thomas

cfrizz

The biggest advantage of getting the SC-35, is that you will get preouts. That way when you replenish your bank account, you can purchase a separate amplifier for TRUE sound improvement.

Welcome to Club Polk Tommy!

tommyt21

cfrizz wrote: »

The biggest advantage of getting the SC-35, is that you will get preouts. That way when you replenish your bank account, you can purchase a separate amplifier for TRUE sound improvement.

Welcome to Club Polk Tommy!

Thanks Brotha,

Looking at getting the RTi A7's and the CSia6, However it's me and the Wifes Anniversery coming up shortly so I can only upgrade one piece at a time. I was just curious if I would see a jump in performance with my current setup.

carter71

Everything I've read indicates that you will see an improvement. The amps in the 35 are much more efficient than the ones in the 1020 and will actually put out close to their rated power. I'll ordered a 35 for myself last week from Costco, and if you're still on the fence when it gets here, I'll be glad to post my thoughts about it.

tommyt21

carter71 wrote: »

Everything I've read indicates that you will see an improvement. The amps in the 35 are much more efficient than the ones in the 1020 and will actually put out close to their rated power. I'll ordered a 35 for myself last week from Costco, and if you're still on the fence when it gets here, I'll be glad to post my thoughts about it.

Please do, Thats one hell of a deal from Costco:biggrin:

B Run

I just hooked up my SC-35 on Friday, and it's a nice improvement over my 1120 and over my 1120 + Adcom combo as far as sound quality. If you were happy with the rest of the features on your 1020 and just want more power i'd highly recommend it. It powers my Rti's just fine. I had a Onkyo 3008 and Adcom GFA7000 running until the Onkyo broke last week, and I decided to try the Elite vs going with another Onkyo, I don't feel like i'm missing anything in the power department.

larry777

If you get the Pioneer Sc-35 you shouldn't need any more power to run the RTiA7's,CSiA6 and a set of surrounds. Unless your room is really big,and then you may not need any more power unless you like Insane volume levels.

SRTer

cfrizz wrote: »

The biggest advantage of getting the SC-35, is that you will get preouts. That way when you replenish your bank account, you can purchase a separate amplifier for TRUE sound improvement.

Welcome to Club Polk Tommy!

I humbly submit that the SC-35/37 ICE amplification is the best attribute of the SC because there are cheaper AVR's that Pioneer makes with Pre-outs.

The Pre-outs would be the second best detail as well a the higher quality DAC and HDMI 1.4 ability.

SRTer

tommyt21 wrote: »

Thanks Brotha,

Looking at getting the RTi A7's and the CSia6, However it's me and the Wifes Anniversery coming up shortly so I can only upgrade one piece at a time. I was just curious if I would see a jump in performance with my current setup.

I run RTi A7's and A9's and a CSi A6 with great success off the internal amps. I will be using separate amps for the RTi A9's sometime this year just to see if I'm missing something.

SRTer

B Run wrote: »

I just hooked up my SC-35 on Friday, and it's a nice improvement over my 1120 and over my 1120 + Adcom combo as far as sound quality. If you were happy with the rest of the features on your 1020 and just want more power i'd highly recommend it. It powers my Rti's just fine. I had a Onkyo 3008 and Adcom GFA7000 running until the Onkyo broke last week, and I decided to try the Elite vs going with another Onkyo, I don't feel like i'm missing anything in the power department.

Hey B-Run, have you ran your speakers with the SC-35 without the Adcom and then with the Adcom to see if there is a serious difference in sound, power, and or dynamics.

B Run

Not yet, i'm about to though. I did with the 3008 and basically decided the Adcom added a little more punch to the bottom end but the AVR sounded clearer overall, almost a tad bright. I'm still getting used to the sound of the Pioneer before I hook the amp up, unfortunately for me it's an either/or kinda thing... either I keep the Pioneer and sell my Adcom or I return it and buy a cheaper AVR and use separates. Pretty soon i'm trying to move over to the Klipsch Reference series and they're so easy to drive i'm not worried about the Pioneer not being capable, I just want the best sound quality.

B Run

SRTer wrote: »

Hey B-Run, have you ran your speakers with the SC-35 without the Adcom and then with the Adcom to see if there is a serious difference in sound, power, and or dynamics.

So this thread made me sit down and hook my Adcom back up. I listened to 3 songs on pure direct mode on the SC-35, and then the same 3 with my Adcom hooked up through Signal Cable Analog II's. Then I went back to the Pioneer for 3 more, then back to the Adcom one last time. They both produce a nice full soundstage, good separation of instruments and I noticed no difference either way in imaging. What I did notice was that the Adcom delivers more bass and has a little more punch to it. The pioneer however sounds clearer, more crisp and detailed and still has enough bass even in my large room. Pretty much the same thing I noticed with the Onkyo 3008, but the Pioneer is less bright with an overall richer sound in my opinion. I was honestly avoiding hooking my amp up because I was afraid it'd sound better and i'd want to keep it, but after comparing I think i'm going to let it go. I'm in no way saying my amp is the best out but I think it's adequate enough. These are just my personal findings and opinions with my gear, but you asked so I thought i'd share.

SRTer

B Run wrote: »

What I did notice was that the Adcom delivers more bass and has a little more punch to it. The pioneer however sounds clearer, more crisp and detailed and still has enough bass even in my large room. Pretty much the same thing I noticed with the Onkyo 3008, but the Pioneer is less bright with an overall richer sound in my opinion. I was honestly avoiding hooking my amp up because I was afraid it'd sound better and i'd want to keep it, but after comparing I think i'm going to let it go. I'm in no way saying my amp is the best out but I think it's adequate enough. These are just my personal findings and opinions with my gear, but you asked so I thought i'd share.

This is something, the SC-35 is making about the same in power vs the Adcom. There is more bass but the SC-35 is more cleaner and detailed.

You can adjust the EQ to bring the same kind of bass and keep the detailed sound of the SC-35 all in one without the Adcom. You could be hearing more of a coloration of sound than a increase in bass response. Nevertheless, thanks for your time into this matter.

I'm looking to try 250 to 300 watt with a high damping rate for a amp to run the RTi A9's. Listening to you experience, it seem a amp would help only if it is much better, more powerful, more cleaner, and much more money to make a difference.

B Run

I also think the difference would have been a lot greater if I were running Rtia9's as well, the SC would have a harder time driving those to their full potential. I just don't think my Rti8's are gonna show that night and day difference that justifies the cost of the amp. I'm very happy with the Pioneer though, especially for HT.

Joe08867

B Run, you are hearing exactly what you should. Dynamically the Adcom has more guts than the Pioneer. But Adcoms tend to be brighter or more sterile than Pioneer amplifiers. So the warmth you are getting from the Pioneer is what you should be hearing.

The difference in bass is how much power the Adcom vs Pioneer makes Dynamically. Or instant power. I believe the Adcom almost doubles it's wpc dynamically where the Pioneer probably has about 50% dynamic power available.

I would also guess the Adcom can get a bit lower in range than the Pioneer.

Ice-amps are great but they have limitations especially in receivers. Bottom end has always been an issue to my ears with Ice-amps in receivers.

cfrizz

SRTer wrote: »

This is something, the SC-35 is making about the same in power vs the Adcom. There is more bass but the SC-35 is more cleaner and detailed.

You can adjust the EQ to bring the same kind of bass and keep the detailed sound of the SC-35 all in one without the Adcom. You could be hearing more of a coloration of sound than a increase in bass response. Nevertheless, thanks for your time into this matter.

I'm looking to try 250 to 300 watt with a high damping rate for a amp to run the RTi A9's. Listening to you experience, it seem a amp would help only if it is much better, more powerful, more cleaner, and much more money to make a difference.

You have pretty much nailed it.

When the comparison is made between similarly powered amp and receiver, people usually don't hear too much of a difference, maybe clearer bass etc. But when one steps up to 200wpc or more, the difference is quite clear.

This is precisely why I always suggest this much power. If you are going to spend this kind of money you want to get good results to make the purchase worth it.

I originally had a 2 channel separates setup with Rotel gear. The amp was 50wpc. When I got a Denon 110wpc receiver, I couldn't hear a difference, therefore I was happy with the purchase.

However, once I hooked up a Parasound 1500A 205wpc amp, it was hello Polks!:biggrin: After that there was no going back for me.

I will most likely always have separates, and I will never have less then a 200wpc amp driving my speakers.

SRTer

Joe08867 wrote: »

B Run, you are hearing exactly what you should. Dynamically the Adcom has more guts than the Pioneer. But Adcoms tend to be brighter or more sterile than Pioneer amplifiers. So the warmth you are getting from the Pioneer is what you should be hearing.

The difference in bass is how much power the Adcom vs Pioneer makes Dynamically. Or instant power. I believe the Adcom almost doubles it's wpc dynamically where the Pioneer probably has about 50% dynamic power available.

I would also guess the Adcom can get a bit lower in range than the Pioneer.

Ice-amps are great but they have limitations especially in receivers. Bottom end has always been an issue to my ears with Ice-amps in receivers.

Well, look here Joe. I'm going to get bottom of this bottom end business soon enough.

I'm really about to buy a amp soon. I'm just trying not to breakdown a just buy a Emo. Really want a new amp for about $1000.

SRTer

cfrizz wrote: »

When the comparison is made between similarly powered amp and receiver, people usually don't hear too much of a difference, maybe clearer bass etc. But when one steps up to 200wpc or more, the difference is quite clear.

This is precisely why I always suggest this much power. If you are going to spend this kind of money you want to get good results to make the purchase worth it.

However, once I hooked up a Parasound 1500A 205wpc amp, it was hello Polks!:biggrin: After that there was no going back for me.

That is what I have been thinking. I should have a minimum of 200 watts to see a worthy difference. However, I'm looking for the 300 watts to make sure.

tommyt21

xcapri79 wrote: »

The Monitor 70's are a really nice match with the Pioneer SC-35.
They are great for music as well as HT using the Elite ICE amps.
I would suggest that as a good compromise upgrade.
That system will sound very good.

With the RTi series, I strongly recommend an external amp even with the SC-35 to get the most out of those speakers. That is extra cost.

I was originaly thinking the M70's however, I know if i get the SC-35 I will sooner or later still want to upgrade to the RTi A line. The stupid Upgrade bug has hit me hard. Whats worse is trying to convince the wife that the upgrades are neccessary Hence ( buying) convincing her with a nice anniversery gift.:redface:

HTguru1982

Get her the biggest diamond you can afford. Problem solved.

Joe08867

SRTer wrote: »

Well, look here Joe. I'm going to get bottom of this bottom end business soon enough.

I'm really about to buy a amp soon. I'm just trying not to breakdown a just buy a Emo. Really want a new amp for about $1000.

I won't comment on Emo since I am not a fan of theres other than HT and even then well never mind. They are decent for the price but there are many better choices out there.

200 watts is one of the many golden rules I have heard through the years but Dynamic power, High Current, Clean power is the truth of the matter.

200 is good as a basis to start looking but it is not the be all end all. I have heard plenty of 200 watt amps that can't hold a candle dynamically to some 50 watt amps.

Some of the 200watt club here don't realize that even if the amps they have were 100 watt they would sound better than the Receivers they had before. Take cfrizz for instance, her Sunfire is a great amp. It don't matter that it is 205wpc it is the dynamic capabilities of that amp which I believe are in the neighborhood of 325wpc. And of course it is clearer, it is dedicated to reproduce sound not all the other stuff receivers have to do as well.

DON73

I'm on the verge of buying a new receiver since my Integra 7.6 has developed very bad distortion during warm up. I've been looking at the Pioneers and like the power of the SC receivers. I doubt that I'll ever have a HT without a power amp feeding at least the front speakers. I have four power amps capable of delivering 250+ watts at 8 ohms and 400 watts at 4 ohms and I don't see any reason I would need more than the VSX1021 offers. It has enough pre outs that I can use my Adcom 7500 5 channel amp 150 watts at 8 ohms and 225 watts at 4 ohms. The Pioneer Elite receiver at Costco is an excellent buy but with the $50 membership and the cost of a warranty it will be about $400 more than the VSX 1021 from Amazon. I'm not really concerned about the cost but I don't like to spend more than I need to.
I've never thought there was anything missing in my Adcom amps. They aren't bright to my ears and the bass is as good as any speaker I own......except they run out of power before they produce all the bass my B&W801s are capable of.

tommyt21

I'm curious those that did get the Costco deal with the SC-35. Did Costco offer a warranty?

Drenis

I thought Elite warranties were voided if not purchased from an authorized retailer? I wasn't aware Costco made the list.

SRTer

Joe08867 wrote: »

200 watts is one of the many golden rules I have heard through the years but Dynamic power, High Current, Clean power is the truth of the matter.

200 is good as a basis to start looking but it is not the be all end all. I have heard plenty of 200 watt amps that can't hold a candle dynamically to some 50 watt amps.

Well, we will soon see. Just got hooked up on a Adcom GFA 555-II which is 200 watts. It seems to be an older amp and it not 300 watts like I want. However, the price is not to bad for my little experiment.

We will see what the 200 watts of Adcom can do for the RTi A9's soon enough. If all goes well, the Pioneer Elite SC-35 will be see plenty more amps as I move up the amplification chain.

SRTer

Drenis wrote: »

I thought Elite warranties were voided if not purchased from an authorized retailer? I wasn't aware Costco made the list.

Costco is not on the list. However, they seem to offer some type of warranty plan and return plan that some have found to be sufficient.

I bought mine Best Buy... It obviously was not the "best buy" at the price I hit it for. Nevertheless, i think the SC-35 was well worth it's price.

carter71

I don't know if Costco offers a warranty, but they have an excellent return policy, and I'd be able to return it to a store, rather than ship it, if anything goes wrong. That's the only reason I could spend that much money on an item that won't have a warranty. Hopefully it will be a moot point as Elites are well-made anyway.

tommyt21

carter71 wrote: »

I don't know if Costco offers a warranty, but they have an excellent return policy, and I'd be able to return it to a store, rather than ship it, if anything goes wrong. That's the only reason I could spend that much money on an item that won't have a warranty. Hopefully it will be a moot point as Elites are well-made anyway.

very true! plus there is always square trade

DON73

I ordered the 1021 today and it will be here tomorrow.:biggrin:

TECHNOKID

Drenis wrote: »

I thought Elite warranties were voided if not purchased from an authorized retailer? I wasn't aware Costco made the list.

I can only speak for COSTCO Canada, COSTCO will usually double the manufacturer's warranty so if the manufacturer gives you 1 year, you get 2 with COSTCO and they will provide you with their own technical service. I think they came up with this to deal with the rumor or fact that manufacturers would not honor the warranty on COSTCO products since they were coming from the US (rumor not a proven fact).

DON73

The new model of this receiver does not have preouts for connecting an external amplifier. I'm almost certain that I saw an ad last year that showed it had several preouts. Does anyone here have one from last year that has preouts? Just bought one and need to return it if Pioneer changed the design and eliminated the preouts. Any help please.


ETA Sorry I intended this to be a new thread.