Options to put CD's to sleep

SolidSqual

ddsski wrote: »

Solid Squal: does importing 11960 songs seem lazy to you? Doesn't intelligence say that avoiding doing it again is common sense? Have you done true side by side listening tests before declaring lossless the victor. What cost system is necessary to exploit this difference? These are all reasonable questions.

DDsski, importing 11960 songs will suck, but won't take the time you think. My music collection is twice as large not including the vinyl and download formats. You just have to get into the habit of doing a little bit each day. Or even do a single CD each time you want to sit down and listen. My point was not that you are lazy. My point is that if you want to achieve the best sound and the most out of your gear, then you should make sure you have your stuff burned in a good format. It will be worth the headache in the long run. Once you burn in a good format like AAC, AIFF or FLAC, you will never have to do it again.

And yes, I have done true side by side listening tests. I've been in this hobby for some time now, and I am not one to have an opinion without the experience to back it up. 320kps Mp3 sounds like crud compared to lossless. Lossless vs uncompressed is a different debate for me. Some say they can hear the difference, I think I can with some recordings. For me, I choose AIFF (uncompressed) because the format is the most pure (audiophile nonsense in my head) but more importantly because AIFF runs better with my gear. Decompressing compressed files uses up important system resources which if used up results in poor performance.

As far as cost goes, I think any system over $1K if put together with synergy could demonstrate the superiority of a hi res file.

SolidSqual

newrival wrote: »

If you're serious about going digital You should look into the system of which Srajan Ebaen of 6moons said, "I"ll go as far as saying that anyone spending the $3,000 on this software - packaged as it is with the necessary microphone and priceless setup consultation - will make the very best $3K investment anyone could at present make anywhere in audio."

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/spatial/1.html

Spatial Computer solutions by clayton shaw. It's mac based with a modified version of pure music and pure vinyl. The front end is used just like iTunes.

http://www.spatialcomputer.com/index.html

They offer packages with some of the best dacs out there Wyred 4 Sound DAC2, Apogee Ensemble, and the Prism Orpheus

If you're looking for a real solution you should at least check into this system.

Personally i feel like most of the suggestions, while i'm sure some of them sound pretty good, feel like hodge podge solutions.

I am curious as to why you're going to move to a surroundbar. It's a fine product for what it is, but the one I demoed was only slightly better in sound quality than the speakers in my Samsung DLP. Just my opinion though.

What he said . . . you can use your own DAC in most cases, a TC Konnekt, Apogee Ensemble, or Prism Orpheus (for the best sound, period.)

Bobsama

sucks2beme wrote: »

Gig for music streaming? That's going a bit overboard for audio transfers.

That it is, but I also use it for 720p or 1080p movies, TV shows, and mount CD/DVD/BD images from remote storage. Since upgrading to a gigabit switch (I use a gigabit switch but my router is only 100mbit), I've not noticed a single hitch when streaming audio. Before, it'd sometimes cut out if I was doing anything network-intensive.

100mbit is sufficient, but 1gbit is basically required to serve files to multiple clients. Also, 1gbit really helps when you're adding new music or especially video. A 4GB DVD image transfers in a fraction the time and FLAC rips transfer in a matter of seconds.

I personally setup my computers to have network folders mounted like regular partitions. It makes using them much easier. Some NAS setups don't play nice with devices like a Squeezebox or other networked media controllers. Further, cheap NAS setups tend to use low-speed controllers which means you have poor read/write speeds.

I'm not saying you need to rerip everything, but from here on out try to rip to a lossless format. For your iTunes purchases, you can use them so long as they don't have DRM on them. The DRM crap is stuck to iTunes/iPods. I personally use a beautiful piece of software called dBPowerAmp to rip my CDs and convert them to other formats. It supports almost everything. I tried iTunes' convert-upon-sync crap (to store it as AAC128 on the iPod) and I literally couldn't listen to it because the only setting available was fast-convert low-quality. This was to my iPod Nano Gen4. It was a night-and-day difference between AAC128 & Apple Lossless.

http://imageshack.us/m/694/7612/unledfyu.png
C:\ is a WD Raptor 150GB with Windows 7 Pro x64 (SP1) installed on it
\ is a WD Raptor 150GB with all my computer games installed on it
E:\ is a WD Raptor 150GB which I use as a scratch disk (to temporarily store downloads or files I'm working on)
F:\ is a WD Caviar Black 1TB which I used to use for all my downloads, disk images, and backups
U:\ is a USB-connect DVD burner
V:\ is a virtual Blu-Ray reader, used to mount CD/DVD/BD images
Y:\ is a mirrored pair of Samsung Spinpoint F4 2TB drives which I use for file storage and music backups
Z:\ is a mirrored pair of WD Caviar Blue 320GB drives which I use for primary music storage

My most important stuff is on Z:\ and the data exists on 4 separate hard drives. The only way I'll lose it now is if my power supply dies and kills the hard drives (which is very unlikely).

R o x

fastz28 wrote: »

this set up is so clean

Decoder chip: AK4396
PCI audio interface based on VIA VT1721 (Envy24HT-S)
PCI card supplied with standard and low profile metal bracket
24 bit / 192kHz playback (analog & digital)
24 bit / 96kHz recording
120dB(a) S/N ratio
5Hz - 40kHz frequency response
Triple Burson OpAmps
Headphone output with 1/8" connector routed via JRC4580 dual OpAmp
Upgraded RCA line outputs
Analog line input with 1/8" connector via AKM AK5353/7 102dB(a) S/N ratio AD converter (20Hz - 40kHz frequency response)
Optical S/PDIF digital output following IEC-958C standard, can be used for stereo audio playback (PCM) and multichannel streams from such sources (AC-3 or DTS data)
EWDM driver based on ESI technology for all current Windows Versions

... ve gotten myself same supercard just yesterday, awaiting shipment to Taiwan with great anticipation (;

could you advice please on how to connect a turntable -> tubepreamp -> to which input on the card ? the analoge with a small jack ?

thanks ia
R o x

ddsski

Does anybody have expereince with the Marantz AV7005 or is it too new and not out there yet. That removes the Sonos layer , which seems like the best option presented thus far. But if I can hook directly into the preamp, we have a winner!! Simple and clean, then I can take another 39.6 days of my life reimporting if I choose!

pearsall001

I think the Marantz unit is pretty new so you probably won't find too many reviews just yet. Also, don't forget the Sonos ZP90 which has it's own dac, digital & analog connections also connects directly to your preamp. Have you even been on the Sonos website yet to do some of your own research??????? Same goes for the Squeezebox. Google can be your friend my friend!

ddsski

You are right! I start my search by talking to you folks. In turn, you give me ideas which, in turn, I research on Google. I used to read Stereo Review till it became a painful read and it was quite apparent that manufacturer dollars were influencing a lot of decisions.
This link was quite useful as part of my initial exploration
http://www.scribd.com/doc/27532219/Guide-to-Disc-Players-DACs-and-Music-Servers#outer_page_11
I got into iTunes right about the time external hard drives became very cheap. Also at the time iTunes had not yet made it easy to downcode into an Ipod.(import lossless and sync at iTunes plus). What you imported at was what you synced your Ipod at. I still would like to load my IPOD at 256kbps in the future not 128 because I can hear that! But if starting from scratch in 2011 it would all be lossless!! just for the sake of being archival. Which lossless format I use will depend. My new X5d has a port for a flash drive . I need to see what format to use as i won't even need an Ipod in that vehicle once its set up properly.
I see the younger generation that are heavy into use of the computer as their source with powered speakers etc. THAT IS NOT AUDIOPHILE. LOUD MAYBE BUT NOT AUDIOPHILE. I'm that tweener generation at beginning of computer era that is moderately computer literate but suffered thru the pain of Basic which tainted us for life! Keep it coming this has been great

nspindel

What you're talking about is a feature that I wish they'd build into iTunes. As I described earlier, iTunes is capable of on-the-fly transcoding of ALAC into 128kb AAC, to load onto the iPod. I don't understand why they don't make that configurable? Why should you be locked in at 128kb, when someone like you wants this exact on-the-fly behavior, just at 256kb instead. Seems like an easy thing for them to add, not sure why they don't.

bmor

I was looking for a method of copying all my CD's to lossless and listening from a hard drive and ended up using my Pioneer Elite 33 receiver. I wanted as direct a route as possible. The 33 will play mp3's and WAV directly from USB portable drives using the onboard DAC, or will play from ipods. With the HD's, you can't make a playlist, you have to create a folder containing the tracks, but it suits my purposes. Don't know if the Pio stuff is at the level of equipment you want though.

sucks2beme

Bobsama wrote: »

That it is, but I also use it for 720p or 1080p movies, TV shows, and mount CD/DVD/BD images from remote storage. Since upgrading to a gigabit switch (I use a gigabit switch but my router is only 100mbit), I've not noticed a single hitch when streaming audio. Before, it'd sometimes cut out if I was doing anything network-intensive.

100mbit is sufficient, but 1gbit is basically required to serve files to multiple clients. Also, 1gbit really helps when you're adding new music or especially video. A 4GB DVD image transfers in a fraction the time and FLAC rips transfer in a matter of seconds.

I personally setup my computers to have network folders mounted like regular partitions. It makes using them much easier. Some NAS setups don't play nice with devices like a Squeezebox or other networked media controllers. Further, cheap NAS setups tend to use low-speed controllers which means you have poor read/write speeds.

I'm not saying you need to rerip everything, but from here on out try to rip to a lossless format. For your iTunes purchases, you can use them so long as they don't have DRM on them. The DRM crap is stuck to iTunes/iPods. I personally use a beautiful piece of software called dBPowerAmp to rip my CDs and convert them to other formats. It supports almost everything. I tried iTunes' convert-upon-sync crap (to store it as AAC128 on the iPod) and I literally couldn't listen to it because the only setting available was fast-convert low-quality. This was to my iPod Nano Gen4. It was a night-and-day difference between AAC128 & Apple Lossless.

http://imageshack.us/m/694/7612/unledfyu.png
C:\ is a WD Raptor 150GB with Windows 7 Pro x64 (SP1) installed on it
\ is a WD Raptor 150GB with all my computer games installed on it
E:\ is a WD Raptor 150GB which I use as a scratch disk (to temporarily store downloads or files I'm working on)
F:\ is a WD Caviar Black 1TB which I used to use for all my downloads, disk images, and backups
U:\ is a USB-connect DVD burner
V:\ is a virtual Blu-Ray reader, used to mount CD/DVD/BD images
Y:\ is a mirrored pair of Samsung Spinpoint F4 2TB drives which I use for file storage and music backups
Z:\ is a mirrored pair of WD Caviar Blue 320GB drives which I use for primary music storage

My most important stuff is on Z:\ and the data exists on 4 separate hard drives. The only way I'll lose it now is if my power supply dies and kills the hard drives (which is very unlikely).

95% of the poeple out there are wireless. They use the providers router
wireless access point or use the hard wired ports off of it.
How many people out there are going to be able to do any of your
performance tricks? I think most people can't even drop the stuff
on a pc with foobar and hook up a DAC. You have a nice system
and have put a lot of effort into making it bulletproof. The OP
doesn't sound like he'd be comfortable with that advanced of a set up.

Slaine777

For storage of your digital media I would suggest getting a NAS (Network Attached Storage) with a media server. I have a Synology 211J. This will fit two hard drives of your choice and can be set up for RAID 1. Two hard drives in a RAID 1 array will be copies of each other so that if one drive goes bad you do not lose your data. It has a media server built in so it can stream your music to a computer on your network or a Sonos, or Squeezebox, or pretty much anything else you have on your network. One advantage of a NAS is the small size and low power usage. It will also work with all your current digital files.

Over time I would also suggest re-ripping your CD colletion to a lossless format, FLAC or Apple Lossless. The advantage of the lossless format is that you can get rid of all the physical copies of CDs you have because you can use the lossless copy to burn a bit for bit copy if you ever need it. I realize this is a daunting project, but the payoff is two copies of every CD you own in a small box.

I don't have any suggestions on which device to use to stream your music, I'm still struggling with that decision.

nspindel

For a high end solution, many advise against running the software on the NAS itself. The processors are not up to snuff. In my Squeezebox application, I do the FLAC->PCM transcode on the server, not on the Squeezebox, so the PCM is what is streaming. I also stream on-the-fly mp3 to Squeezecast sessions running on my iPhone. There's no way any of this can be done running the server on the NAS. My two cents is to host the data on a NAS, but run the server software on a proper machine, Windows or Mac.

ddsski

You guys were all fabulous. My brain was full of ideas today and my afternoon bombed, so I went to Audio etc this PM after a long talk with a stereo guy, not a computer guy. Make a long story shot SONOS!!!!!!!
I also looked at the Marantz (unfortunately factory is rubble in Japan. Then I started playing with Anthem!!! Wow!!!

Thank you esp to pearsall001 who was so direct I had to listen!!!
My unit will be in within a few days

Bobsama

sucks2beme wrote: »

95% of the poeple out there are wireless. They use the providers router
wireless access point or use the hard wired ports off of it.
How many people out there are going to be able to do any of your
performance tricks? I think most people can't even drop the stuff
on a pc with foobar and hook up a DAC. You have a nice system
and have put a lot of effort into making it bulletproof. The OP
doesn't sound like he'd be comfortable with that advanced of a set up.

I wouldn't say 95%, but probably 60-70%. Having a limited router doesn't stop you from adding a <$50 8-port Gigabit switch. My real concern with wireless is bandwidth; 802.11b is insufficient for video. 802.11g would have severe trouble serving multiple files. 802.11n is sufficient. Wired gigabit connections have far fewer problems in reliability, range, bandwidth, etc.

The toughest part of my setup was definitely not setting up the storage. The toughest part was actually getting the ASIO4All drivers working properly. I use a Little Dot DAC_I and the Toslink Out on my motherboard. The problem is if I start any other audio programs (like Skype or a website with audio) before I play music in Foobar2000, the other program gets the audio and my music gets muted.

The drive setup is actually a really easy process to do. The quick version is that you use "Network and File Sharing" to make it a network folder. Then in a remote computer, you use "Map Network Drive" to mount that folder with its own drive letter. The moderately difficult part of this is to setup the Users, so to prevent kids/the tech illiterate from modifying your music database. That involves setting up different users with different levels of access.

My server doesn't actually support RAID so I had to use Windows to make mirrored copies of the hard drives. I've already verified that the data is secure (by unplugging one of the drives to simulate a failure). My biggest concern is contracting a virus. My only remedy there is regular antivirus scans. Other than that, system or network-induced file corruption is a possibility.

ddsski

Once again, to much computer complication to a "STEREO" solution. The minute I got on the phone with a "Stereophile" yesterday, and all the computer mumbo jumbo got pushed aside, things became much clearer. Computer is source of data (regardless of format, compression etc. Object is to get data into a system pure. Wireless OK, hard line best. With my Sonos, I plan to run a Cat 5 wire from router to back of Sonos unit (2nd floor to first). No issues will occur with interference, data speeds etc. From there via simple RCA's, Sonos plugs into stereo. Yes it can be multi zones and all that good stuff, but it primarily just transfers your data from A---B as I was saying yesterday. Either buy a Sonos controller, use your Iphone or Ipad to control from where ever you wish.
Here's what was getting lost in most of these critiques. If sound was imported lossless, it comes out of Sonos to Preamp(whatever and into DAC lossless. Period. Just like off a CD. All the help with format etc was the issue that muddied the water.
Computer guys that are using amped spakers, no matter how good, are not operating at the same sound quality levels of high class amps (like Class A, D etc.) In my oversimplification yesterday talking about hooking an external hard drive up to a new type of preamp etc that was my object, let the stereo control the sound, not anything to do with a computer. Marantz front USB BTW allows access to digital outs of IPOD for those who want IPOD to be their "External Hard Drive" but factory in Japan is rubble, and product is unavailable till production gets shifted to Chinese facility (may not be good for quality!) Marantz is superb for video needs, but the audio end is a bit inferior in design, tends to be a bit bright and unnatural! But it is a simple solution to anyone with mid level speakers. I'll go out of my way to speak of the QUALITY of the sound once installed.
I promise to compare
1. CD v iTunes lossless
2. 256kbps AAC to lossless
3. AAC 256kbps to CD
4. Eventually, blueray to lossless in 2 channel and surround formats once installed.

heiney9

sucks2beme wrote: »

1st thing, DAddybear link REPORTED!


I just did a bit of homework. Ok, SB fans, has anyone used the SB touch
with just a usb drive attached, no network or Squeeze server?
I saw some chatter that this might work with some size limitations.
If so, it could make this guy a happy camper. One box, and done!
It mentions problems with big music collections, and it has to have a fat32
drive format.

The interface is not very powerful (slow and clumsy the larger you get). I have yet to get it to work well. You lose many of the features the SB software provides one being the ability to make and use playlists among others.

It's not really a viable solution other than perhaps plugging a friends thumb drive in to listen to tunes. It will not work well managing a large collection.

H9

H9

badchad

The approach I'm planning on using is probably very "low tech" compared to what's discussed but I will share:

For under $600 I got a gateway laptop with HDMI output. I plan on connecting the laptop to the (currently non-existant) receiver. That way, I can run all sorts of media on the laptop, and output it however I want. I can mix and match whatever software suits my needs.

Content will be stored on a 2 or 3 terabyte external drive.

sucks2beme

Bobsama wrote: »

I wouldn't say 95%, but probably 60-70%.

About the only time there's a hard connection to the network is
where the pc and provider's box are in the same room around here.
There are no basements, so running wire is a PITA.
I ran it, but most people aren't going to kill themselves or pay big bucks
to have it done. My neighborhood is so congested, wireless runs
very slow due to all the overlapping coverage.
I have a second drive on the pc with the tunes on it, and I clone disks
about once a month. I also have a usb drive for saving just the music.
Works fine without having to outsmart anything. RAID is a bit overkill
for me. I play music in one room, so the pc is local, no network lag!
And the plus is I only turn it up when needed, so I don't put too much
wear and tear on things. I still hear a little fan noise, but it's Texas,
with the AC running there's always fan noise anyway!

sucks2beme

badchad wrote: »

The approach I'm planning on using is probably very "low tech" compared to what's discussed but I will share:

For under $600 I got a gateway laptop with HDMI output. I plan on connecting the laptop to the (currently non-existant) receiver. That way, I can run all sorts of media on the laptop, and output it however I want. I can mix and match whatever software suits my needs.

Content will be stored on a 2 or 3 terabyte external drive.

Nothing wrong with that. I went simple. I started with stuff I had around and
a pro sound card(recording/mixing apps as well as playback).
I slowly changed things up, getting a low noise case and a DAC.
SONOS is nice for multi-room, but for me this works.

heiney9

badchad wrote: »

The approach I'm planning on using is probably very "low tech" compared to what's discussed but I will share:

For under $600 I got a gateway laptop with HDMI output. I plan on connecting the laptop to the (currently non-existant) receiver. That way, I can run all sorts of media on the laptop, and output it however I want. I can mix and match whatever software suits my needs.

Content will be stored on a 2 or 3 terabyte external drive.

That will certainly get you started, but not the most audiophile way to do it.

H9

Slaine777

ddsski wrote: »

Once again, to much computer complication to a "STEREO" solution. The minute I got on the phone with a "Stereophile" yesterday, and all the computer mumbo jumbo got pushed aside, things became much clearer. Computer is source of data (regardless of format, compression etc. Object is to get data into a system pure.

I still suggest a media server NAS. You won't have to leave your computer on all the time to access your music. The Sonos will pull the digital file off the server and convert it to a digital audio which you can output to an external DAC or it can convert it to analog internally and output via the RCA output.

ddsski

Computer sleeps when not in use. Will only be active when in use. I don't listen to music all day long so no biggie.Computer , however, gets used intermittently all day every day.

tonyb

Slaine777 wrote: »

I still suggest a media server NAS. You won't have to leave your computer on all the time to access your music. The Sonos will pull the digital file off the server and convert it to a digital audio which you can output to an external DAC or it can convert it to analog internally and output via the RCA output.

Not a bad suggestion plus they are pretty cheap these days and you don't have to be a computer whiz to hook them up.

Ya know I love you guys, but c'mon man, 4 grand dacs, 3 grand software packages ??? Dude just wants to wifi cd quality tunes to the main rig.

Regardless, let us know how the Sonos works for you. I highly suggest a seperate dac which can be had cheap for under 500 bones. Add a tubed dac to put alittle soul into those tunes if you feel a need to experiment a bit.

nspindel

Still gotta put in a good word for a Squeezebox here. I just bought a used Touch on headfi for $215. I use the coax out into a dac, but could just use the red/whites into a preamp. Let me repeat. I just bought a Touch for $215.....

heiney9

I'm not sure why people who choose Sonos think that you can't do multi-room/zones with the Squeezebox............because you can.

Nothing against Sonos, but I have been on the Squeezebox wagon for awhile and it's a stellar and inexpensive solution that will be equal to or better than many high end cdp's if you set it up correctly.

H9

heiney9

I'll also add a properly done NAS for the Squeezebox is not cheap. When I say properly done I mean RAID 5 that doesn't need your computer to run. QNap can run the Squeeze software natively, but RAID 5 QNap is about $600.

All of you out there who are considering a jump to a hard drive based streaming system need to factor in some sort of back up for your files. You are dammed foolish if you don't. Just using a single hard drive is really short sighted. External drives will fail at some point and you need to be sure you have your music backed up. Otherwise you get to rip it all again, not fun.

H9

sucks2beme

heiney9 wrote: »

I'll also add a properly done NAS for the Squeezebox is not cheap. When I say properly done I mean RAID 5 that doesn't need your computer to run. QNap can run the Squeeze software natively, but RAID 5 QNap is about $600.

All of you out there who are considering a jump to a hard drive based streaming system need to factor in some sort of back up for your files. You are dammed foolish if you don't. Just using a single hard drive is really short sighted. External drives will fail at some point and you need to be sure you have your music backed up. Otherwise you get to rip it all again, not fun.

H9

I clone the drive on to a twin once a month, and back up just the music directory on to a usb drive. Raid protects against drive failure, but
whoopsies like virus or a user mistake just propagate over. I've considered
buying a BR drive to do hard back ups. Yes, it would take a number of disks,
but it would be bulletproof. They are under $100 to drop one in the system.
either way, I'm not dumping my cd music collection. I'm sure RICA
would be upset if I had music without the original copies, and would
like to send their goons out to deal with it. I might drop them into a large cd wallet, compress the front and back covers in a small box, and dump all the cases. I hate the way they scuff cd's over time, but if they don't get
pulled in and out much, it shouldn't be too bad.

heiney9

S2beme, If your collection is small enough you can do that, but when a music directory starts to become 300+ GB's, it's not practical to "copy to a twin". I just wanted to point out to all those considering this method to think about "backups".

I never see much discussion about it. It's the one achilles heal of digital song management.

H9

EndersShadow

heiney9 wrote: »

S2beme, If your collection is small enough you can do that, but when a music directory starts to become 300+ GB's, it's not practical to "copy to a twin". I just wanted to point out to all those considering this method to think about "backups".

I never see much discussion about it. It's the one achilles heal of digital song management.

H9

Yup, I have two 640 gig HDD's and one is nothing but a total backup of another via Windows 7. Automatically once a week backs it up. Then I have a 1 TB HDD with backups of my movies and TV shows as well as 2 other externals for use as backup devices.

I have had too many freinds crash and burn and lose everything not to be beyond paranoid on this.

It is something you need to consider. But with 1 TB drives being so cheap and the ability to use the HDD docks to backup via ESATA, its a little more painless than it used to be. But it does take time to figure out the best method of backup for you.

sucks2beme

It's about 2 hours to clone a 500g drive.
I just hook it up on a sata connection, boot up on the cloning cd
and let her rip. Windows utilities suck. I've seen some that take all day.
The program uses linux boot.