Options to put CD's to sleep

ddsski

Is it me , or is the current state of the audiophile world extremely confusing? As my sig suggests, I'm old school audiophile. I have a Mac based surround system in Maine home where I have most time to listen. Usually physically dead after long days skiing. As an insurance policy, I have a duplicate copy of every CD (~1200) I own at this home, but obviously, even though I keep them in CD 100 stack containers that's a lot of space.
Part 2 of this scenario is my home in CT. This stereo is older equipment and strictly 2 channel at present. I have owned 1 Carver M200t since new in 1985, and several years back found another one at Audio Classics so I have two Carver M200t's bridged for 350wpc. My preamp is a Macintosh c504 (more compact series again purchased at Audio Classics. My speakers here are also Polk LSi15's and my sub is a Sunfire True Sub. Again as in Maine my DVD player is a Pioneer Elite DV-46. Again ~1200 CD's take a lot of space and I finally just got a 55in Vizio widescreen so the old AV console just got retired asnd several hundred CD's are sitting in 2 drawers (homeless)

The 2 scenarios have one thing in common, both have tons of CD's taking up space.
The difference is in Maine the MX134 is a sweet piece and I'd prefer to not replace it with some newer preamp that accepts ?via USB an external Hard Drive or some form of network input. That leaves me looking for either a music server and DAC or a way to install a computer with all my iTunes music recorded at AAC256kbps (classical at AAC 320kbps). If the iTunes option is better in long run, and several audiophile types at Audio Classics strongly feel that iTunes (Mac) is taking over the music world, I will patiently reimport all my treasured pieces losslsss over time as long as I can load my Ipod for auto use at 256kbps as I can hear the degraded sound at 128kbps when i use my Iphone with more compressed music installed.
In CT, the MacC504 is old so it can be replaced, but I still love my Carvers and it would require a several thousand dollar expenditure to equal the quality I already have. In CT, I am trying to consider between a music server and a computer based sytem that runs thru a new preamp. I would go hard wire as I have heard of some wireless issues transmitting non compressed sound that concern me.

Here is my wild card question. I now have Microsoft Sync toy that has made copying my iTunes to an external Hard drive easy. I keep a primary copy in my HP and periodically backup to an External HD that only gets plugged in for backup. Are there Preamps out there that allow you to plug in an external HD? I know the DAC issue also has to be answered Basically do preamp/computers exist yet as that, to me, seems the IDEAL scenario!!

Let's discuss as the info, and I have spent hours reading, is so dsijointed out there that I'm at a loss at present. BTW I have read this forum for years and found it a great source, but now I feel I have something to contribute.

mantis

I'm basically in the same exact boat as you. I currently use a Apple TV to play all my itunes music files. I have a wide mix of files from 192k to Apple Lossless and .WAV. When I buy music from itunes it's in 256k. My older stuff is in 192k. From what I understand Apple is going to update itunes to high res files. I'm hoping for an exact copy of at lease CD quality or hopefully a new higher res format maybe close or equal to SACD.
Currently my Apple TV is used 99% of the time for my playback but I still use a CD player(Cambridge Audio Azur 650BD) when I want to listen to the highest quality. I also spin SACD and DVD AUDIO from time to time.
What I want is one device to play ALL my music in whatever quality it was recorded in. I really love the Apple interface especially with the iphone app to manage all my music. I'm no fan of storing all these disc's as they do tend to take up a lot of space when a hard drive take up little to no space.
Todays market has some interesting devices to get this job done. You can build a Media Pc server and have your entire collection which I understand can be done for under 1000.00. You can get a Squeezebox or Sonos player and test the waters their. Many other companies make devices like McIntosh and Bryston. Still for me I'm not sure which way will be my next adventure. Right now the Apple TV is golden and I keep about 30 Disc's in the room for my High Rez listening and the rest of the collection is in a media cabinet in the basement.
I have done some testing with wireless transfer but I have not done to many side by side listening. Sonos will find it's way into my system and I'm gonna test the living hell out of it. I love the menu system and everything about Sonos. They might just be the answer to this all.
Maybe this thread will unveil some interesting ways of getting this done.

EndersShadow

I would suggest just taking all your CD's, burning them to FLAC via dbpoweramp (and buying the full version) and storing them on your computer. Then get a player that will stream FLAC wireless over your home network connection to your system (think squeezebox touch or a sonos player). Squeezebox even has a remote that shows whose playing, whose next up, ect.

Then your computer has all your CD's backed up in bit perfect FLAC, you can back them up on an external hard drive, and play them through your current system.

I believe Heiney9 has this setup and is loving it. Cost would be somewhere ~400ish for all parts I believe

That or a HTPC running Windows Media Player, XMBC or something that like, but its a lot more work to go that route.

I posted a thread or two about this so you might check them out:

Ripping CD's to FLAC
Coaxial v. USB to RCA

mantis

EndersShadow wrote: »

I would suggest just taking all your CD's, burning them to FLAC via dbpoweramp (and buying the full version) and storing them on your computer. Then get a player that will stream FLAC wireless over your home network connection to your system (think squeezebox touch or a sonos player). Squeezebox even has a remote that shows whose playing, whose next up, ect.

Then your computer has all your CD's backed up in bit perfect FLAC, you can back them up on an external hard drive, and play them through your current system.

I believe Heiney9 has this setup and is loving it. Cost would be somewhere ~400ish for all parts I believe

That or a HTPC running Windows Media Player, XMBC or something that like, but its a lot more work to go that route.

I posted a thread or two about this so you might check them out:

Ripping CD's to FLAC
Coaxial v. USB to RCA

I'm gonna dig deeper into this topic and get a Sonos ZP90. Then give Flac a try. I'm thinking this might be the best option without killing my credit card.

ddsski

Mantis , BTW just read your post on the HDMI cinnamon and while I have never done any side by side listening, when I bought my system for Maine from Frank Gow at Audio Classics ,I followed his guidance with the cable purchases as you see in my sig. He wanted to get me into PMC speakers , but my ears really love my LSi15's! I couldn't justify paying several thousand more dollars for the PMC's that , although obviously better, weren't $3000 better IMHO.

In my case, I was a slow adopter to iTunes. I did it in late 2009, did a fair amount of research and decided to import my CD collection at AAC 256kbps (this was before iTunes store updated to iTunes plus as their standard). All my classical stuff is at AAC 320kbps. These decisions were based on Ken Rockwell articles and statements made by orchestra conductors that imported all their music into iTunes and sold the CD's etc. If an orchestra conductor likes the sound, that's a pretty critical listener IMHO!! Realize I have109.75 gigs of music (effort!!) invested in this import, iTunes tells me it took 39.6 days of my life because no one has found a way to speed read CD's yet!! Yes, it would be nice for someone to say, "your sound quality is at 98%, its not worth buying a music server to import again as lossless" Remember, we spent 20 years with cassettes and Nakamichi's and thought they were the bomb! I would love someone to have the courage to say iTunes at your level of AAC is completely adequate even for your sweet Maine system, just do such and such to make it accessible. I have to admit, the ease of access iTunes has given my entire music collection in all my vehicles etc has been priceless. Is Apple a bunch of Aholes in not making it easier to backup to an external HD making me have to try things like Synctoy! Scared the crap out of me messing with all that data!!

I also realize I'm a rocker and this music info is considered "simple" compared to serious jazz listeners for example. Lets keep this dialogue a flowin while I play some Metheny in the background.

EndersShadow

mantis wrote: »

I'm gonna dig deeper into this topic and get a Sonos ZP90. Then give Flac a try. I'm thinking this might be the best option without killing my credit card.

Thats kinda where I am. I am gonna get a USB to DAC for the office to go between my HK3490 and the computer.

Then downstairs I am looking at the Sonos, Squeezebox touch or a couple other options at a later date.

Although with a laptop, my files in FLAC I could just use my laptop to stream to the receiver downstairs for right now which is probably what I will do since I have a HDMI out on my laptop

ddsski

Endershadow, just read you other posts. I have researched the Olive units and find them impressive,. That would be a very labor intensive solution. To me it is basically an External Hard drive with a cd changer that allows you to import the music and yes they have a service to do it for you.
Have read about Sonos etc, and know the key to those setups is the DAC you use.
This is the value of "typing out loud". I guess I would like to have all the "data" in one place as a primary source. I have to admit with its flaws, iTunes is pretty damn convenient. I have 2 Ipods that float between 4 vehicles. My IPhone has music in it for those "away" times. I have 2 stereo sytems to deal with now and would love to capitalize on the efforts already expended.
When is the audio industry going to stop overcomplicating things? Someone needs to make a line of Preamps/ AV units. Receivers, you name it, that allow you to plug in an External Hard drive burned from your source at whatever level of compression to lossless you want and either have a great built in DAC or you run one that you choose and "make it so number 1". Steve Rowell and I at Audio Classics where I have purchased all my Mac gear etc over the years have been in discussions. As I believe you stated, Mac has a new preamp capable of doing this I think. I just can't afford an $8000 preamp!! He suggested I be patient as a lot of the product I describe is in the pipeline and as iTunes takes over the music industry little by little, my scenario will be the way its done. I have waited this long and all my music is available, I would prefer to little by little upgrade the quality of my selected imports to lossless in iTunes instead of spending another month + of my life reimporting to FLAC or something similar. I am continually impressed and confused at the same time when you computer geniuses make things happen. I am not that computer savvy. I'm a dentist!!

pearsall001

Being old school myself I never thought that I'd pack up my disc spinner & shove it in the closet. Well, I sure did & I'm kicking myself for not doing it sooner! Ever since I visited an audio friend of mine awhile back & got a taste of his Squeezebox system I was hooked. His only need was for his main system. The incredible sound & the amount of music at your fingertips was just too much for me to bear. So my research began on music servers. I was looking for multi-room (zones) flexibility.

I knew what I wanted & I looked at quite a few servers. The one I kept coming back to was the SONOS system. For my needs it was the perfect ticket. I wanted complete control over my main rig, the outside deck & also the dining room. Nothing outside the SONOS really made it so incredibly easy. If I'm not mistaken you can run up to 32 different zones each playing a different music genre & at their own volumn. You can also connect any zone to another to play the same exact music choices...all at your fingertips & with a simple tap on the CR200 controller.

For my main rig I have the ZP90 running thru my modded Music Hall tube DAC & the sound is off the charts incredible!!!

My wife loves her S5 speaker in the dining room which is one mean sounding speaker. It consists of five speakers each with their own digital amp & it rocks the room.

My deck is fitted with Polk Atrium 45's running off the ZP120 with it's built in 55w digital amp. Another marvelous sounding setup.

I have all my CD's ripped thru dBpoweramp using FLAC, then to J. River Media & off to my external Western Digital NAS with 1T storage.

I am so impressed I simply can't recommend the SONOS enough!!! I just wish I had a much bigger house so I can keeg adding zones!!

ddsski

This is where I differ. I don't need zones. I listen to music on my computer while doing paperwork on a basic pair of Bose Companions and they just plain work. I have only 1 room in the house where ALL my equipment is for serious listening. With 350watts per channel, I want to hear music in a different room I just turn things up! Voila' instant concert hall sound. Consider that room point B and the computer point A. I need to get from A to B. I can easily get wiring from A to B. My bedroom has a widescreen but we just watch the "57 channels but nothin on there" so no need to enhance that at this time. The Samsung widescreen there is an EDTV from ~2006 anyway which does its job fine.
Just was looking at local dealerships to go visit and started reading about the Marantz AV7005 with the Airplay system. THIS PIECE HAS GOT MY ATTENTION! It seems like a more reasonably priced version of the top shelf piece MacIntosh recently released.
Sonus is definitely on my radar though and based on your assessment I will give it a serious look. I appreciate your candor. BTW had you ripped your collection previously into another source? My dilemma is the Maine system solution v the CT system solution as you read about in my first post.

Bobsama

I personally migrated away from iTunes to go to Foobar2000. I have a local file storage server with a pair of 320GB drives (WD Caviar Blue 320GB) and a pair of 2TB drives (Samsung Spinpoint F4 2TB). The key to using file servers is to have a gigabit network. 10/100/1000 mbit routers and switches are a bit more expensive than the dirt-cheap 10/100 variations, but the additional bandwidth is very nice and approaches the limits of what a fast hard drive can transfer. None of my drives are fast but going from 12.5 MB/s transfers to 60+ MB/s transfers was a night-and-day difference.

The most technically flexible way to do this all is to have different computers and DACs. That'd give you a full-feature computer playing musc. You can use touch-screen LCDs or multimedia remotes or plain old keyboards and mice. There are plenty of lower-power systems available, especially around AMD's Bobcat processors. Again the most expensive part is buying either external DACs or settling with Asus Xonar sound cards.

The price of storage is damn cheap. All you need are some low-speed 2TB drives (the Samsung Spinpoint F4 drives are the most reliable at the price point) and a motherboard that preferably supports RAID.

sucks2beme

Put a big drive in a laptop, get a dac, and go nuts.
EAC and FOOBAR are free software programs. As long as
the pc is only used for music, you won't have a problem with lag.
This is an easy start. The hard part is ripping you cd collection.
There are also a ton of remote solutions, such as SONOS and
many others using remote storage. I really hate wireless, though.
There are so many people around me using it, it's just about useless
do to interference. I ended up putting network drops in all rooms.
My biggest problem is finding the next step up in DACS without breaking the bank.
You think speakers are hard to audition? Try DACS.
There are 100's of DACS out there. And damn few credible people
reviewing them. True head to head reviews are rare. Even with Sonos or
Squeezebox, many go with an external DAC.

sucks2beme

Bobsama wrote: »

I personally migrated away from iTunes to go to Foobar2000. I have a local file storage server with a pair of 320GB drives (WD Caviar Blue 320GB) and a pair of 2TB drives (Samsung Spinpoint F4 2TB). The key to using file servers is to have a gigabit network. 10/100/1000 mbit routers and switches are a bit more expensive than the dirt-cheap 10/100 variations, but the additional bandwidth is very nice and approaches the limits of what a fast hard drive can transfer. None of my drives are fast but going from 12.5 MB/s transfers to 60+ MB/s transfers was a night-and-day difference.
.

Gig for music streaming? That's going a bit overboard for audio transfers.

pearsall001

For your one room system the SONOS ZP90 & a DAC of your choice would yield spectacular results. But I must say the ZP90 as a stand alone piece without an outboard DAC also impressed me with it's superb sound quality. Or the Zonebridge would also meet your system needs but you can't add a DAC.

I did look at that very Marantz piece & it does look very nice. It just didn't have all the flexibility I was looking for. But for your system it does fit the bill nicely. The Olive pieces also looked very, very nice but again are geared for a one room system. Thers guys might be on to something though...http://www.musicserversdirect.com/. For a one room system they look nice. There's a lot more out there as I'm sure you're quite aware of.

And to answer your other question, no I never used another ripping service but dBpoweramp. My collection isn't huge (500 +/-) so I only wanted to do the ripping once. It's quite time consuming as you well know.

SolidSqual

Ddsski, I too consider myself to be an old school audiophile. But instead of holding tight to the impulse to resist new technologies, I jumped off the cliff and embraced them. I couldn't be happier.

If you got the money to spend, I highly recommend picking up a Prism Orpheus paired with a Apple MacMini or some other computer. The Orpheus is by far the best DAC I have ever heard. What's better, it is a world class preamp, digital crossover, phono stage and headphone amp. If you pair the Orpheus with SpatialHD software, you can play anything from FLAC and AIFF to Mp3 and ALC. The SpatialHD also offers the best consumer room correction around and operates with iTunes as the user interface and PureVinyl as the software processor.

Finally and perhaps most important, the SpatialHD software allows playback of 192/24 files from sources like HDTracks. Most consumer software including iTunes do not allow playback of this type of file without downsampling. Trust me, when you hear a file of this caliber, you will never want to go back to plain old CD quality.

If having multiple zones is not the solution you are looking for, then you can't do much better than what I describe above.

ddsski

See the dilemma. 7 different posters taking the solution in 7 different directions. I'll try to focus the input a bit here. First, I do not want to reimport/ burn etc my collection if it can be avoided. I have adapted to iTunes and the convenience is its strength. I will reimport over time only when I get a system installed and can truly do side by side comparisons to confirm that my ears and equipment can differentiate between AAC 256kbps and a lossless format. I want to take advantage of the music I have already imported for a start.
I know of Foobar 2000 in name only. Can I take all my iTunes downloaded material and get it into a Foobar system without redownloading? As I only have the music on an Ipod presently, and when on a docking station hooked up to a stereo there is a large discrepancy in output levels it is difficult to compare. I am also aware that the docking station uses the analog outputs which is inferior. I also know the Widia and others have now got ways to use the digital outs of the IPOD, but I digress.
How many of you folks have truly done side by side comparos ala Ken Rockwell's articles for example? I see 2 countering scenarios out in the audiophile world. 1. Those that doggedly hang on to lossless sources and 2.those that have really compared lossless formats to some of the new compression technologies and found the threshold where they can't hear the differences anymore. I guess I am trending towards that second camp because I have played original CD's back to back with CD's I burned off itunes of the same material that was imported at 256kbps AAC and could not hear any appreciable differences/ BTW I choose piano pieces etc for comparison. I guess my $15K system isn't good enough to hear those subtle 1% nuances or my 49 yr old ears are not up to the task of hearing inaudibles like a sonar operator.
Back in the seventies and early eighties, you could readily hear the difference between a Pioneer/Kenwood/Technics/ etc system and the next step up which included names like Yamaha/Marantz/Denon etc and the topshelf stuff like Luxman/MacIntosh/Phase Linear.
To me starting in the 90's the differences became more minimal, the bargain products were still just that but all of the products from mid level up were getting pretty damn good. Within the past decade, I have heard plenty of relatively generic brands that sound shockingly good. Kind of like the reality of having my Pioneer Elite DVD player blow the Parasound DAC1000 I had (vintage 1994) out of the water. What a difference a decade makes! I wouldn't put Pioneer and Parasound on the same plateau quality wise in any given fixed time window. The differences in sound (both playing thru PolkLSi15's and Mac preamps) between my Mac MC352 and vintage 1985 Carver M200t's is, in reality, quite small. Yes the Mac amp has a little less listener fatigue over the RARE multihour listening session I enjoy, but it is minimal in reality. Both are truly pleasurable listening experiences to me. I am the first to admit that the upper end has become more of a name game than the true experiential differences in sound. Tubes will always be tubes. That is for the realm of the guys/gals that spend there life in a chair critically listening all day long. That guy is not me.

**So I guess I want a user friendly solution to the current data I have available. Can people chime in on other products like the Marantz AV7005 out there or soon to be released?** I see that a new preamp is needed in CT to get me the AV abilites to have surround even with a basic Soundbar 50 in CT. In Maine, I could always ultimately trade in the MX134 for a new MX150 and plug in a hard drive or computer for my source material.
Also lets talk about good DAC that don't cost $5-10000!

Again, typing out loud has made me realize that an Olive or any other solution that requires I redownload 1200+ CD's is not my desired solution unless it would work equally well in Maine and CT and the sound is blatantly superior to my ears.
As an aside, realize with the existing preamp/power sources I run, most audiophiles consider my speakers to be the weak link if they just look at the name, but when they listen to the Polk LSi15's they are very impressed. That is what my ears told me 4 years ago!
I consider the Polk name to be on pair with those mid line brands I discussed earlier but an overachiever if you pick the right product in their lineup. Not the RTA's and other lines, (OK but not audiophile sound) I even had a guy at a Tweeter store on my suggestion move the LSi15's out of the "routine" stereo room being played thru receivers into the audiophile room. We then listened to everything off a Krell setup. The speakers were topline Focals, Magnepans and LSi15's and 25's. The 25's were the muddyones in the comparo they failed first, the LSi15's blew away the Focals and they gave the triply expensive Magnepans a real run for the money. Are PMC's superior, but look at the price!!! I digressed again.

Hope this rant helps steer the conversation for folks like myself that have a lot of time and data invested in iTunes!

sucks2beme

Ok, I re-read the thread. Yes, there really isn't a good turn key way to
get music off a hard drive. There has to be a smart interface, like a sonos
or SB with network storage, or pc with local storage.
There have been a bunch of I-pod docs added to
some preamps. Some have usb input and an internal DAC, but
no control interface. Damn, are there any audio design engineers
reading this thread? The I-pad has so much market presentation that
it's killed off other good ideas. Most people just dock the I-pod.
The others go nuts with the SB, SONOS or others. Some of us just dropped
a laptop or low noise cased pc into the mix with a DAC.
A box that had a usb/firewire in for storage, A dac with rca output,
and a control interface for smartphone control or bluetooth
for a PDA(remember those?) would be a neat toy.
But, as of right now, not the direction design has gone.
You're going to have to pick one of the above solutions.

ddsski

Great response! Is it me or is a preamp that allows you to plug in an external hard drive to extract the digital data back to music too simple?? Some have said I'm not embracing the new technology. I look at it a little bit different. I'm not embracing ridiculously complicated technology. Technology should simplify a process, not burden it!
The technology of a CD and its level of sound quality is a simple technology. The next level of simplicity is to take 1200CD's worth of simple technology, place it in a hard drive the size of 20cd's and use it. Being that the music world is undeniably headed this way, instead of having to sit a computer on the stereo or wire one in, why not have the preamp be part computer?? with a really sweet DAC to get that warm analog sound? That's what I'm talkin about!:cool:
As this product does not yet exist because in their infinite wisdom, all the electrical geniuses naturally overcomplicate things I look to the AV preamp to receive the data from a distant computer as the next best thing! Now if I only knew how the sound compared to my Macintosh preamps!! Time to find and listen

pearsall001

I really think you're over complicating things. From reading your post it sounds like your music is stored on iTunes...then you're ready to go.

The simplicity of my SONOS system is very straightforward. Computer (NAS) to ZP90...digital out to my modded Music Hall tube DAC...then analog out from DAC to my NAD T765 AVR which does the controlling. From direct stereo to 5.2 surround it's all still at my fingertips. Simple as pie & sounds incredible.

BlueFox

I use the iPod Classic/Wadia 171 iTransport dock combination. With Apple Lossless compression an iPod Classic (160GB) will hold a lot of music. I currently have 3155 classical 'songs', which range in time from 2-3 minutes to over 30 minutes, and still have 28GB of free space. Although I primarily listen to classical, I am thinking of just buying more iPods for other genres. For example, I have another iPod exclusively for Lady Gaga, and am thinking of adding another play list to it for female musicians (Diana Krall, Nora Jones, Joss Stone, Adele, etc.).

The digital signal from the Wadia into the Bryston DAC sounds great. I could not be happier with this setup.

Anyway, if I did not have the iPod/Wadia, and had a drive full of lossless music, I would give this new Bryston digital file player serious consideration.

http://bryston.com/pdfs/09/Bryston_BDP1_LITERATURE.pdf

Pick up the June 2011 issue of stereophile for a review.

SolidSqual

Ddsski, you just need to commit to something. Sonos is not complicated at all. Olive is just like a CD player. The SpatialHD has a bit of a setup curve, but is cake once it is rolling. If you are too lazy to get your music into a good format or believe high res or lossless formats having diminishing returns over their lossy and aging counterparts then you are defeating this whole endeavor towards a new source before it has even begun. Sometimes good sound takes a little work.

ddsski

pearsall001 wrote: »

I really think you're over complicating things. From reading your post it sounds like your music is stored on iTunes...then you're ready to go.

The simplicity of my SONOS system is very straightforward. Computer (NAS) to ZP90...digital out to my modded Music Hall tube DAC...then analog out from DAC to my NAD T765 AVR which does the controlling. From direct stereo to 5.2 surround it's all still at my fingertips. Simple as pie & sounds incredible.

In English I believe you are saying "Computer to ZP90 (which is?)-->to DAC--> AVpreamp of choice". Once its in the system do as you please correct?

Unfortunately, I look at things in reverse. The stereo industry, if you will, steadfastly embraces itself. It is the computer industry that is steadily encroaching into the void of digital data interface because the stereo industry resists embracing it. (until recently) ITunes was filling a void because the music industry, although they knew the data on the disc was digital, they did not want to put that data in a computer. It took a computer company to do so.

Questions: Is a Sonos system sending out the data stream in the identical format it was preserved. Meaning lossless data transmitted lossless or is it downcoded as some have suggested?
I realize a Music server is essentially an overpriced computer to store the data. I have resisted this for just that reason.
Solid Squal: does importing 11960 songs seem lazy to you? Doesn't intelligence say that avoiding doing it again is common sense? Have you done true side by side listening tests before declaring lossless the victor. What cost system is necessary to exploit this difference? These are all reasonable questions.
Blue Fox: You have an interesting idea. I know my entire collection won't fit lossless on a single Ipod but it could on several. Too bad a Wadia dosn't have ability to plug in a drive?
Interesting how the CD is still the standard, if it wasn't taking up so much space, its still the way to go for uncompromised sound. Albums, don't get me going there, sound great the 1st 10 times, then degradation sets in. I had all the Mobile Fidelity Masters etc in the 80's. So far the CD format has no known failure short of baking it in the sun etc.

I appreciate all the ideas. So far I've got 2 ideas.
1. Hardwire from computer to a new receiver such as the Marantz product in conjunction with a good DAC, listen to different lossless and compression formats in a direct comparo and make final decision on need to reimport.
2. A Sonus type solution which will require a good DAC

Seems like I should be concentrating on DAC research as it is the common denominator component in any option.

nspindel

Here is what I would recommend.

If you want the highest quality, I don't care what article you read, you should go lossless. I wouldn't think of selling my disc collection without ripping to lossless.

So whether you rip to lossless or go with something like Olive, you're going to be re-doing your cd collection. So I would re-rip to Apple Lossless using iTunes. I would also disable error correction in iTunes when doing so.

Then when you want to load music onto your portable devices for your vehicles, take advantage of iTunes ability to transcode the lossless to 128kb AAC on the fly, as it's loading the ipod or iphone, so you get the advantage of lossless files as your primary storage, but you can easily keep loads of music on your portable device at lower bitrate, without having to maintain two libraries at high and low bitrates.

Once you have your music in Apple Lossless, if you're after audiophile listening, I would advise getting a Squeezebox Touch. You can find them for $250. Set your Squeezebox Server to sync to iTunes, and then the Squeezebox is able to play the Apple Lossless files.

You may be quite happy using the analog outputs of the Squeezebox and stop there. Or, of course, you could graduate to an outboard dac wit the Squeezebox and take things even further.

Since Squeezebox plays Apple Lossless files and syncs to iTunes, it plays very nicely with the rest of the Apple world if you want high-audio quality extenders for your sound systems.

sucks2beme

Maybe we aren't clear. You will need either to put the music on a server
somewhere, a NAS(an external hard drive with a network interface)
or attach your usb external hard drive to a pc.

With a NAS on the network, you can now use a SONOS,
Squeezebox, and some other boxes to get your music and convert it from
network traffic through an internal DAC, and out RCA jacks like a cdplayer.
You then use the SB interface to search and play. Sonos is slicker,
but more expensive. A server would also work on the network.
Load your stuff up on the server from the extrnal dirve.
Don't fear, think of the server as a dedicated pc that's not local.
IT doesn't have to be a monster,just have enough power to
run the software for the host app. You even could attach your
external drive to this server instead of loading up the music.

You can also buy a cheap dell D6xx pc with a dock(keeps cooler that way)
strip off the excess software crap, and then attach your external hard drive and
USB DAC. Go get player software of your choice and then the program
controls the music flow form the hard drive, and the DAC converts it to
RCA, like in the previos example. You can buy some of the older Dells
dirt cheap, and buy a used cheap USB DAC. IF you're handy,
this works well. I've found a dell d620 for $50. I just needed to fix
a whole lot of stupid to get it back running.

Third choice. Use an IPOD with dock. Quick , easy, cheap, but
limited storage and audio quality.

Squeezeboxes, DACS and whatnot can be found pretty cheap used.
Don't worry, if the they don;t work out, sell it and you aren't
out much more than your time.

WE have no idea what your tech comfort level is. Or budget.
Both the 1st two solutions can be done cheap, or ramped up to
insane levels(this is a club Polk specialty). You may even have some of
this stuff already.

BlueFox

BlueFox wrote: »

I use the iPod Classic/Wadia 171 iTransport dock combination. With Apple Lossless compression an iPod Classic (160GB) will hold a lot of music. I currently have 3155 classical 'songs', which range in time from 2-3 minutes to over 30 minutes, and still have 28GB of free space.

This statement is ambiguous, and being an engineer, it bothers me. The current iPod Classic comes with a 160GB hard drive. However, the iPod Classic I am using for the classical music has a 120GB hard drive. So, if I were using the latest iPod I would have around 70GB of free space after loading hundeds of classical CDs.

sucks2beme

1st thing, DAddybear link REPORTED!


I just did a bit of homework. Ok, SB fans, has anyone used the SB touch
with just a usb drive attached, no network or Squeeze server?
I saw some chatter that this might work with some size limitations.
If so, it could make this guy a happy camper. One box, and done!
It mentions problems with big music collections, and it has to have a fat32
drive format.

ddsski

I really do appreciate all the input. Maybe I'm not being clear. I want to start off getting my CT system dealt with. For that I want to, for starters, use all my iTunes material as the source. My old C504 being 2 channel, is going to be retired because I finally have an HDTV in this location and want some surround capabilties. That makes the Mac preamp obsolete for my needs. Thinking about picking up a multichannel amp at Audio Classics or wherever and using a Polk Soundbar or equivalent. Obviously, that will necessitate a new AV preamp to service my Carvers and the TBD surround equipment. I started this discussion today because I am in an ideal situation to buy a state of the art preamp and build a 2011 pathway from computer to Preamp. To this I can decide how to get the music from A to B. I again mention that Marantz AV7005 as having major potential. This process is not about doing it on the cheap, its about doing it most efficiently and cleanly. Once I get my install done, I'll determine what level of data I prefer by direct listening.
So to reeval the options,
1. Wadia uses Ipod and is very efficient but limiting by internals of the IPod. Even at lossless there are limiters in the IPOD.
2. Squeezebox and Sonos are greatwireless options
3. If the Marantz (or equivalent) airplay option is really that good, the SB or Sonos option my be an extra unnecessary layer.
4. Regardless I need a good DAC. Prism Orpheus is obviously an incredible piece, but I'll use like 10% of its potential. Mac DAC is WAAAYY too expensive. I had a Parasound once but it became obsolete. Currently I don't have a DAC because the built in DAC in my Pioneer DV46A DVD player was a huge improvement over that Parasound. That is apiece I'll research heavily.

I appreciate the advice, but my ears will tell me about compression when the time is right. I, indeed, may ultimately end up reimporting everything over time! I intend to optimize the 2 channel sound as always and have some surround capabilities. I am not a movie lover and don't really have much use for Hollywood. I watch racing (not Nascar), hockey and other sports typically where stadium sound is appreciated.m Hope this helps.

BlueFox

ddsski wrote: »

1. Wadia uses Ipod and is very efficient but limiting by internals of the IPod. Even at lossless there are limiters in the IPOD.

What does that mean?

It is true an iPod cannot play high res files, but neither can a CD player. However, there is no degradation of the digital file stored on the iPod hard drive versus a digital file stored on some other hard drive.

newrival

If you're serious about going digital You should look into the system of which Srajan Ebaen of 6moons said, "I"ll go as far as saying that anyone spending the $3,000 on this software - packaged as it is with the necessary microphone and priceless setup consultation - will make the very best $3K investment anyone could at present make anywhere in audio."

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/spatial/1.html

Spatial Computer solutions by clayton shaw. It's mac based with a modified version of pure music and pure vinyl. The front end is used just like iTunes.

http://www.spatialcomputer.com/index.html

They offer packages with some of the best dacs out there Wyred 4 Sound DAC2, Apogee Ensemble, and the Prism Orpheus

If you're looking for a real solution you should at least check into this system.

Personally i feel like most of the suggestions, while i'm sure some of them sound pretty good, feel like hodge podge solutions.

I am curious as to why you're going to move to a surroundbar. It's a fine product for what it is, but the one I demoed was only slightly better in sound quality than the speakers in my Samsung DLP. Just my opinion though.

ddsski

I obviously have lost touch. The language has almost gotten amusing trying to interpret peoples' setups. The less layers sound has to pass thru, to me, has always resulted in the most natural sound. Prime reason I retired my EQ years ago was it was another layer with its S/N ratio etc.
I am interested in a soundbar because for the most part, surround is artificial to me. On my Maine system, anytime I start listening to something in surround, if its good stuff, I invariably go back to stereo even with that exquisite PMC center channel. I figure a Soundbar will be fine in CT for the sports programming I usually watch. I doubt I watch a half dozen movies per year. Not my thing and the over the top sub woofer BS in everything has gotten old. I like smooth accurate sound without artificial coloration and excess bass boost for "effect" Tone controls tend to be bypassed whenever possible on anything but car auto which always needs help.
Notice my systems are audio products. The only use I have for the computer is storage of the source.
BTW CT system for easy reference
This stereo is older equipment and strictly 2 channel at present. I have owned 1 Carver M200t since new in 1985, and several years back found another one at Audio Classics so I have two Carver M200t's bridged for 350wpc. My preamp is a Macintosh c504 (more compact series again purchased at Audio Classics. My speakers here are also Polk LSi15's and my sub is a Sunfire True Sub. Again as in Maine my DVD player is a Pioneer Elite DV-46A. Again ~1200 CD's take a lot of space and I finally just got a 55in Vizio widescreen so the old AV console just got retired and several hundred CD's are sitting in 2 drawers (homeless)

EndersShadow

After re-reading your posts here is the option I would go with based on the fact you mention Itunes and Ipods a couple times, I would go with an Apple TV.

Burn all your CD's in apple lossless so you have them in your Itunes library and can stream them via the Apple TV to your main system. As you stated you can then have your library in one place and access it from another.

You also then have the ability to sync up your Ipod's with all your cd's. You also have the highest quality Apple will allow you for the best source setup you are going to get from that.

I dont know a lot about the Apple TV, but its pretty cheap and might just be exactly what you need and provide you the easiest setup and use since your already semi familiar with Itunes.

Otherwise based on the gear you have, I would look into the squeezbox and sonos so you can play FLAC which is a bitperfect copy. I believe MediaMonkey (which I use to play my FLAC files) can be used with an Ipod to sync music back and forth to. I think it converts it as well but am not sure.

tonyb

I think you guys are making things too complicated for the poor guy. The way I understand it, he doesn't want to reload all his cd's, wants ease of use,and something that will deliver the formats he already has his music in.

If thats correct, for ease of use and everything else, Sonos would be your answer. You could hook it up by digital cable straight to a receiver if you wish, or use an outboard dac. You can add onto the system at your convenience,different rooms, one controller thats portable and can control all the rooms in the house, at the same time. Go to their website, look at the video's, decide for yourself. You can hardwire it if a computer is close to your receiver, or if you have a router, you can do wireless all over the house.

We can rant back and forth all day about what stereo companies used to be like, but fact is, thats the past. You may have to re-educate yourself a tad if you haven't been in the audio game for a while. Heck, I learn stuff every day, doesn't matter what you think you know, always something new to learn. So leave your stuff on the computer in Itunes, covert them if you want to higher res formats, or leave them as is. Plenty of software available like db power amp, media monkey,foobar,etc. Get the sonos, it's a plug and play option that even the wife will dig.