SDA-2B Consensus on Modifying the Crossover's
Comments
-
I am not Martin Logan fan so I am not here to defend for it. Heck, I haven't even heard the 11K ML speaker yet but I am guessing the guy is talking about the ML Spire X?
I don't know how the FR graphs are measured by the lecturer but measuring OB speakers in Anechoic doesn't seem right to me. It's just like measuring the FR of the Polk SDA with the dimensional XO.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
Incorrect. I truly think there is something wrong with you. Apparently, I'm not alone in my observations.
Truth be told.
I think there's something wrong with anyone who wades into a thread only to pick a fight. Jcandy had a relevant comment that turned into an interesting discussion. If you want to start pointless arguments there's another thread about royal weddings you could be crapping on. Please take F1 with you. -
Not to those in the know. That said, I'm outta here. I do not like to argue. Enjoy your conversation.On3s&Z3r0s wrote: »...Jcandy had a relevant comment that turned into an interesting discussion. If you want to start pointless arguments there's another thread about royal weddings you could be crapping on. Please take F1 with you.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
You keyboard warriors ought to be more honest. What you don't like about me is that I don't agree with you.
No, that's not it. The fact that you don't have a clue is.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Then if your in the know why not bring some factual counter arguments to disprove him instead entering the thread with a pure inflamatory remark ?Not to those in the know. -
Looks like we have a lot of boys with facial hair around here.
JCandy doesn't seem to be the one stirring up the trouble.
JCandy:
DarqueKnight:In my notes, I have a direct quote from him: "you can't get good sound without measurements".No rational person would disagree with this. However, I think we must not get carried away and think that measurements tell the whole story. Measurements have to be considered and understood within the context of the design goals of the loudspeaker.
I agree with Darque on this point. -
nvm.
-
Right. And there are also questions of tradeoffs, since with real drivers and real enclosures, its just not possible to have a perfectly-flat-minimum-phase loudspeaker. How much effort to put into minimizing the phase variation (pressure phase), how much to trade that off for flat frequency response (pressure magnitude), and when to stop adding complexity to the crossover, are decisions that are tough to make objectively. Here designers start separating into camps. But no competent designer would say that a short-scale anomaly (i.e, a narrow spike or trough) in the SPL is anything other than a problem to be addressed. What you might find is that more attention is paid to spikes because they sound worse than troughs. What I want to know is: what method would the "I trust my ears, $crew the measurements" camp use to design a speaker?Agreed I would assume most accomplished designers would seek the goal of flat FR and accuracy.In fact even most DIY'rs will obsess over numerous iterations of xover design to get the last nth of linearity and proper phasing.
Anyhow, to bring this discussion back to the SDA2B, I think the point is that the mid-tweeter crossover design could be significantly improved with some work to yield a more accurate loudspeaker that sounds better for exactly that reason. This project has been on my to-do list for a while. However, I really wanted to make such a redesign for the monitor 7 (or 10) because of the absence of issues with the SDA 16mH inductor. -
Of course there is the issue of directivity which determines how the speaker is going to interact with sidewalls. But, Olive was very emphatic about the nature of the "first arrival" and its importance. If you screw up the first arrival (on-axis response) then you're starting with a huge handicap, and the room will almost certainly make it worse (let's assume we're talking about f > 200Hz, which is where the ML looked awful).I don't know how the FR graphs are measured by the lecturer but measuring OB speakers in Anechoic doesn't seem right to me. It's just like measuring the FR of the Polk SDA with the dimensional XO.
There was also very significant issue raised in relation to Consumer Reports. For years (since the early 70s) CU had been reviewing and ranking loudspeakers based on power response. As applied this was an awful metric and caused the accuracy of CUs reviews to be worse than random! You can read his blog on this topic here:
http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2008/12/are-consumer-reports-loudspeaker.html -
minyatür101 reported
- SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
- Crossover upgrades by westmassguy
- Marantz 1504 AVR (front speaker pre-outs to Adcom 555)
- Adcom GFA-555 amp · Upgrades & speaker protection added by OldmanSRS
- Pioneer DV-610AV DVD/CD player
- SDA CRS+ · Hidden away in the closet
- SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
-
Ones, when can we expect that review you promised on the first page of this thread?
-
I've performed the TL upgrade on the CRS+ (4.1TL) using the stock boards and the 2B's (2BTL) using Tony's custom boards. What would you like to know?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
audiocr381ve wrote: »Looks like we have a lot of boys with facial hair around here.
JCandy doesn't seem to be the one stirring up the trouble.
JCandy:
DarqueKnight:
I agree with Darque on this point.
I agree but JCandy has in the past. But that is not the point. Lets try to keep it civil for once guys.
JCandy, while I agree that measurements can get you close to what you want, nothing beats hearing the results and tweaking them. If we went by measurements alone than Tube amplification would be the worst sounding audio gear out there. But in reality some of the best sounding audio equipment has a dirty tube in the signal path. I know that is a different discussion but the truth is in the ears of the beholder not the testing equipment used in an anechoic chamber. Last time I looked the majority of people in the world don't have one in there home. -
Ones, I sent you a PM. It might have not gotten through, let me know.
-
It would be foolish to make a speaker purchase decision based strictly from a set of graphs ,the ear should always be the final judge.The point being that accurate measurements of a speakers frequency response be they good or bad, have far greater correlation with how they actually sound than for instance do FR measurements of amps,preamps etc.JCandy, while I agree that measurements can get you close to what you want, nothing beats hearing the results and tweaking them. If we went by measurements alone than Tube amplification would be the worst sounding audio gear out there. But in reality some of the best sounding audio equipment has a dirty tube in the signal path. I know that is a different discussion but the truth is in the ears of the beholder not the testing equipment used in an anechoic chamber. Last time I looked the majority of people in the world don't have one in there home. -
Hey guys, new thread started. Moving forward...
-
I apologise for my part in derailing your thread.audiocr381ve wrote: »Hey guys, new thread started. Moving forward... -
I apologise for my part in derailing your thread.
No worries FTGV! I planned on starting a new thread when I finally came around to ordering parts.
