10B's, not much Bass

tilca

Hi Everyone,
I have a pair of 10B's I'm using for my surround system. I have the 10B's in front, and I am using NHT SB3's for rears. I guess it is a 4.0 system.
I've noticed that the 10B's don't put out much Bass, but otherwise sound fine. I did the push test, and the drivers responded as they should if the box were sealed. I even tightened up the screws on the drivers a bit. I have the speakers about 3 inches from the back wall.
Any ideas? Or should I just go out and get a sub?
Thanks.

wayne3burk

7 posts in 2 years... a new record.

But honestly - Are you talking about not much Bass in a HT type environment? Or not much Bass when using with a stereo Audio source.

My 10Bs do just fine when listening to music (i think). When using without a any sub in a HT setup i can definitely tell that i don't have a sub hooked up. But on balance I don't miss the sub that much in HT (Dolby) mode.

hope that helps some (i think).

-- wayne --

Bobsama

What are you using for power? An AVR won't be able to drive them properly and, as wayne stated, HT setups almost always include subs.

F1nut

Do you have the fronts set to large?

tilca

I'm using a Pioneer 1020 AVR, and the speakers are set to large. I have been looking for a sub for it. I've tried it in both stereo mode with music and 5.1 from a video source.
Any suggestion for a sub? I have been looking at a Polk PSW 110. I'm on the third floor of a condo, so I'm thinking I can't get anything to strong.

tilca

It may only be 7 posts, but I read these forums all the time. Does that count?

Conradicles

Something must be wrong because the Monitor 10's are bass heavy. I have had a couple of pairs and the last thing they lacked was bass. Any chance something is out of phase? That will kill the bass.

tilca

I checked the phase about a dozen times. My AVR also checks the phase via MCCAC.

Conradicles

tilca wrote: »

I checked the phase about a dozen times. My AVR also checks the phase via MCCAC.

Does it check the phase via internal wiring of the speakers? That would be my guess to fix the problem. Remember Polk wired them black wire positive, which is opposite of the norm and maybe the previous owner changed a driver and wired them wrong. I have seen that a couple of times...

tilca

You know, I'll check that. That is a good idea. I had forgotten polk wired them that way. I had them sitting in my closet until I decided to use them in my HT. I'll let you know tonight how that checks out.

Conradicles

Also check the tweeter too because if one of them is wired out of phase that can kill the bass as well. Hope you find out what is going on.

halo71

Conradicles wrote: »

Something must be wrong because the Monitor 10's are bass heavy. I have had a couple of pairs and the last thing they lacked was bass. Any chance something is out of phase? That will kill the bass.

I don't think I have ever heard 10's referred to as being bass heavy. My 10's have nice bass....tight bass. But not deep or overly heavy bass. I would much prefer a sub with them for 2 channel though.

Tilca, perhaps you are expecting them to have more bass than they naturally do?!? Just a thought.

tilca

halo71, Conradicles,
I checked the phase, and actually reversed the wiring, but the MCACC then told me the speakers were out of phase. They do sound nice, just a lot lighter in the bass than I remember with my NAD amplifier.
I'll check the tweeters next. Maybe I am expecting too much. They do sound nice.
Any sub suggestions?

tilca

You let your daughter play rap!??!! Bad Father!!!!!

dorokusai

The Mon10 has bass...not sure what you are doing wrong.

tilca

Let her play Eric Clapton, Santana, Johnny Lang, KWS, Allman Brothers, even AC/DC, but no unholy rap.

tilca

dorokusai,
It's very frustrating, especially because I know the bass is there somewhere.

dorokusai

tilca wrote: »

dorokusai,
It's very frustrating, especially because I know the bass is there somewhere.

I'm wondering if the EQ is messing it up. Let me read more. In the meantime, stay away from rap.

dorokusai

Put your NHT in the same spot, since you know the sound and let me know if you have the same bass deficiency. Clearly it will be less but is it drastically less? Get where I'm coming from?

Power isn't an issue here.

tilca

My wife will kill me, but I'll put the NHT's in the same spot, and see what happens.

dorokusai

halo71 wrote: »

I don't think I have ever heard 10's referred to as being bass heavy. My 10's have nice bass....tight bass. But not deep or overly heavy bass. I would much prefer a sub with them for 2 channel though.

Tilca, perhaps you are expecting them to have more bass than they naturally do?!? Just a thought.

I agree per se. The Mon12 is bass heavy, if not bloated x10. The Mon10 should provide solid bass, maybe a little loose compared to the reference Polk Mon7....the probably, perfect Polk.

tilca

dorokusai,
I put the NHT's in place of the Polks, and they sounded okay, very clear. They never did have as much bass as the Polks, of course, but they sounded like I remember them.

Bobsama

Also check that every midwoofer is actually active. You could be seeing movement similar to the radiator if only one woofer from each cabinet is dead--which would more than explain the bass deficiency. Any chance you can describe how the speakers are setup in the room, including materials used (especially behind the speakers)?

Fongolio

I'm leaning toward the receiver not having enough balls to drive them properly. With a seperate quality amp they will very likely come to life in the bottom end.

comfortablycurt

The 10's aren't exactly "bass heavy", but they should have some nice solid bass output. I've got a pair of Monitor 7A's, which are more or less Monitor 10's minus one mid-woofer, and they've got EXCELLENT bass output. No, they're not going to make the grade as far as HT bass is concerned, but I've always been very happy with their bass output as far as musicality is concerned.

They can't match the bass output of my SDA's, but they can still get my house rattling when I crank up some Sublime or something else with a ton of bass.

How are they placed? You mentioned they were about 3" from the back wall, but where are they in relation to the side walls? Are they close to a corner? Putting a speaker closer to a corner will cause the bass to corner load, and increase the overall bass output.

tilca

comfortablycurt, fongolio, bobsoma,
The speakers are placed in my living room which is much longer than wide. On one side the living room opens into the dining room, the other side has glass sliding doors. The speaker are placed against one of the long walls (sheetrock). One speaker is near a corner of a fire place (about a 30degree angle), and the other is about 6' from a hallway. The room is about 15' wide, maybe 30' long.
I have a set of the original Polk speaker stands, which the speakers sit on.
I'll check the woofers and make sure they all work. I think they do, but I'll check it out. There's no way my wife will let me get an amp. She always sees the HTIB for the price I paid for the Pioneer 1020 and wonders why I did not get one of those.
I might be able to talk her into a sub however, which is why I asked what is a good match for the 10B's.
Thanks for all the help, it is much appreciated, and I am open to any more ideas. I'll check the woofers and let you know how they look.
Thanks.

halo71

Fongolio wrote: »

I'm leaning toward the receiver not having enough balls to drive them properly. With a seperate quality amp they will very likely come to life in the bottom end.

That is a good point! Going from an AVR to separate pre/power amps made a huge difference for my set up. Better all around.

ncbuckeye3

I just recently got a HT amp, Onkyo. It replaced my old Onkyo stereo amp I have had since 1989. The sound through the new HT was lacking bass compared to the stereo amp, lacking a lot of bass. Once I got a subwoofer and put it in the system, it sounds great.

If you have a stereo amp there, hook it up and see if they sound like they used to.

comfortablycurt

tilca wrote: »

comfortablycurt, fongolio, bobsoma,
The speakers are placed in my living room which is much longer than wide. On one side the living room opens into the dining room, the other side has glass sliding doors. The speaker are placed against one of the long walls (sheetrock). One speaker is near a corner of a fire place (about a 30degree angle), and the other is about 6' from a hallway. The room is about 15' wide, maybe 30' long.
I have a set of the original Polk speaker stands, which the speakers sit on.
I'll check the woofers and make sure they all work. I think they do, but I'll check it out. There's no way my wife will let me get an amp. She always sees the HTIB for the price I paid for the Pioneer 1020 and wonders why I did not get one of those.
I might be able to talk her into a sub however, which is why I asked what is a good match for the 10B's.
Thanks for all the help, it is much appreciated, and I am open to any more ideas. I'll check the woofers and let you know how they look.
Thanks.

It sounds like your room size may be a big factor here. 15'x30' is a pretty decent sized area to fill.

Bobsama

And without half-decent amplification, it's tough to fill a room. Make sure you have speakers set to "Large" and EQ set to flat. Optimally, turn Loudness options off as well. The receiver is supposedly 80Wpc at 8 ohms or about 90Wpc at 6 ohms. Regardless, the receiver isn't capable of the marketed rating from 20hz to 20khz and doubtful it's capable of anything near 80Wpc in 7ch mode. Mess around with the distance the speakers are from the wall and make sure they're toed in, too. Bass is also reinforced if the speakers are placed in corners (though that's probably not an option with a wife ).

TroyD

Too many variables to really make a hard and fast judgement......the 10's are not bass shy, but if you are expecting HT, foundation shaking bass....eh, not so much. Usually with an HT receiver, contrary to popular opinion it isn't the amp section it's some sort of bass filter in the processor.

BDT