R50's?...No way

PSOVLSK

I took the opportunity to hook up my R50's in my 2-channel rig and I have to say that they sound pretty darn good with my B&K pre- and Carver amp. You'd never think you were listening to R50's. The gear/speakers are in different leagues, but I found it amazing how much the gear could improve the speakers. I'd rather listen to this combo than listen to my Lsi15's powered with a lower end AVR.

maximillian

I have a pair but always liked them for some reason. However, the highs are definitely lacking compared to other speakers. Some day I may try to mod the tweeters. For the price they are pretty nice looking too.

tonyb

PSOVLSK wrote: »

. I'd rather listen to this combo than listen to my Lsi15's powered with a lower end AVR.

And why on earth would you amp up the R50's and not the LSI's ?

RuSsMaN

Polk Audio speakers, even (and maybe even especially) entry level models have always responded well to better electronics on the back end. That's where people begin to see the real value in some of the budget offerings. In my experience, it's usually anything but subtle.

Cheers,
Russ

PSOVLSK

tonyb wrote: »

And why on earth would you amp up the R50's and not the LSI's ?

It just seems like a lot of people who bought Lsi's come on here asking, "Will my AVR power them okay?". I guess my point was that you'd be better off amping a pair of R50's than running Lsi 15's on a low/mid AVR. I was surprised by this because it is not the result I would have expected. And that was the real purpose of the thread. To brag about how good an entry level Polk speaker can sound As Russman mentioned...the difference is not subtle.

Lietuvis91

maximillian wrote: »

For the price they are pretty nice looking too.

I agree. Actually they are my favorite floor speaker in terms of looks. I had a pair that I sold to a buddy... I miss them... This makes me wonder what they would sound like in my amped 2ch system now... My monitors sound good, I am not a fan of the looks though, just no style.

tonyb

Most any speaker will benefit from a seperate amp. While I understand your point, your also not getting the most out of the LSI's on a lower end receiver. Thats all I'm sayin'.

cheddar

Yep, it's one thing to say that a good rig makes R50s sound better. It's a completely different thing to put LSi 15s on a low end AVR, killing many of the speaker's strengths, if not the speaker itself.

RuSsMaN

He's just making a generic comparison guys, an eg, an example..... He doesn't have LSi's on a junk avr.

TroyD

My thoughts exactly.....a friend of mine had a pair of R40's, in fact, still does probably, and I always thought that they were damn good sounding speakers.

BDT

cheddar

Understood. I just don't find it that surprising that a lower end speaker brought to its full potential would sound better than an LSi 15 with muddy lows and other problems brought on by a low end amp. I've put the LSis on a mid level AVR before I amped them and they sound terrible in comparison just to itself. But I can see how it can surprise someone who does the comparison for the first time.

Ron Temple

I ran R50s with a separate amp for quite awhile. Eventually giving them to a son. They are still in the family but now dormant. I agree that they improved to a respectable level and remained enjoyable throughout the time I ran them.

PSOVLSK

As a wanna-be audiophile, this was a learning experience for me.

Previously if someone with a mid level AVR with pre-outs, no amp, and R50 speakers had come to me asking my opinion on their next upgrade, I would have told them to get better speakers and save up for good amp later. Now I would tell them to invest in a good amp and save up for better speakers later.

I've seen people give this advice and I thought it was bad advice. Not anymore. Experience. You just can't beat it.

Monster Jam

I'm curious what qualifies as a "low-end"/"junk" AVR, and what qualifies as a mid-level AVR?
By the same token, what qualifies as a high-end AVR?

I wouldn't argue that a separate amp does not provide improved sonic characteristics over most AVRs, but I would argue that, like most things, the law of diminishing returns applies.

Lietuvis91

PSOVLSK wrote: »

As a wanna-be audiophile, this was a learning experience for me.

Previously if someone with a mid level AVR with pre-outs, no amp, and R50 speakers had come to me asking my opinion on their next upgrade, I would have told them to get better speakers and save up for good amp later. Now I would tell them to invest in a good amp and save up for better speakers later.

I've seen people give this advice and I thought it was bad advice. Not anymore. Experience. You just can't beat it.

I happen to agree with you here. The way i saw my m70s "evolve" as I kept improving the infrustructure that was driving them, was pretty cool to see, and now this infrastructure is ready to make full use of even better speakers... except I no longer feel like I need better speakers....:rolleyes:

PSOVLSK

Monster Jam wrote: »

I'm curious what qualifies as a "low-end"/"junk" AVR, and what qualifies as a mid-level AVR?
By the same token, what qualifies as a high-end AVR?

I wouldn't argue that a separate amp does not provide improved sonic characteristics over most AVRs, but I would argue that, like most things, the law of diminishing returns applies.

This is my opinion, but basically looking at a manufactures prices will tell you where the AVR falls. The less expensive would be "low(er)-end" and the more expensive would be "high(er)-end". The better the AVR, the more the manufacturer is going to charge for it. This is a generalization as you can get into the argument of Brand A's low-end is better than Brand B's mid-level. This is obviously very subjective..

I will say that my R50's are usually driven by an H/K 7300 (an H/K flagship AVR), so that's my reference point for the whole "learning experience."

jayman_1975

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

I happen to agree with you here. The way i saw my m70s "evolve" as I kept improving the infrustructure that was driving them, was pretty cool to see, and now this infrastructure is ready to make full use of even better speakers... except I no longer feel like I need better speakers....:rolleyes:

I thought that too... until i got some better speakers

tonyb

Monster Jam wrote: »

but I would argue that, like most things, the law of diminishing returns applies.

The law of diminishing returns applies differently to different people as we do not all hear the same or place value on things we do hear. Some are happy with a boombox and consider anything above that " the law of diminishing returns". There is no absolutes in audio.But if your happy with the sound you get from a 300 buck avr and a Wallmart CDP playing on your old Sony bookies, then rock on. Others though may set their expectations a tad bit higher,so what, to each his own.
That question has been asked more than a few times around here. When does the law of diminishing returns kick in ? The answer is always the same, only you can decide that. When your happy with what your hearing,you'll know. That is until you hear something else,then the line moves. Thats why we have audio shows, get togethers, Polk Fest, so as to give your ears something to compare. Maybe you like it and want to move up, maybe not and are satisfied with what you have. Either way, it's about SQ and enjoying the music be it on a low budget system or a mega buck one.

Knucklehead

tonyb wrote: »

The law of diminishing returns applies differently to different people as we do not all hear the same or place value on things we do hear. Some are happy with a boombox and consider anything above that " the law of diminishing returns". There is no absolutes in audio.But if your happy with the sound you get from a 300 buck avr and a Wallmart CDP playing on your old Sony bookies, then rock on. Others though may set their expectations a tad bit higher,so what, to each his own.
That question has been asked more than a few times around here. When does the law of diminishing returns kick in ? The answer is always the same, only you can decide that. When your happy with what your hearing,you'll know. That is until you hear something else,then the line moves. Thats why we have audio shows, get togethers, Polk Fest, so as to give your ears something to compare. Maybe you like it and want to move up, maybe not and are satisfied with what you have. Either way, it's about SQ and enjoying the music be it on a low budget system or a mega buck one.

probably one of the best posts Ive read, very true.

cfrizz

PSOVLSK wrote: »

It just seems like a lot of people who bought Lsi's come on here asking, "Will my AVR power them okay?". I guess my point was that you'd be better off amping a pair of R50's than running Lsi 15's on a low/mid AVR. I was surprised by this because it is not the result I would have expected. And that was the real purpose of the thread. To brag about how good an entry level Polk speaker can sound As Russman mentioned...the difference is not subtle.

You have discovered what I have known and been encouraging for years. My Sunfire prepro/amp combo outstrip my 20 year old $600 Polk RTA-8T speakers financially by a few hundred dollars, but none of my speakers have ever sounded better.

I have been preaching more power to speakers to find out the REAL value and potential first before going out and getting new speakers. Once you hear what they are truly capable of, you just might decide to keep them.

I was going to get some LSIs but when I was told on here that my Denon wouldn't be able to handle them and that I needed an amp, I got a Parasound 1500A 2chnl amp and the rest was history. I still have my RTAs.

As for the LSIs, none of them should be run on a receiver, they will never reach their full potential being powered by one. I blame the stores & Polk for not being...forthcoming in giving out the information about the true power requirements for the LSIs.

The LSI's are in a different catagory of clarity and sound, and requirements from the rest of the Polk lineup. It is an apple to oranges comparison.

cfrizz

Lietuvis91 wrote: »

I happen to agree with you here. The way i saw my m70s "evolve" as I kept improving the infrustructure that was driving them, was pretty cool to see, and now this infrastructure is ready to make full use of even better speakers... except I no longer feel like I need better speakers....:rolleyes:

So enjoy what you have worked and spent so hard for now. There is always something better out there, but that doesn't mean you HAVE to upgrade. And you also have the satisfaction of knowing you probably have one of the best systems on the block that can give any theater a run for its money.

I will most likely keep what my RTAs until they croak, or until I hit the lottery.:biggrin: