Any Plumbers on the Forum?

tryrrthgtryrrthg Posts: 1,900
edited April 2010 in The Clubhouse
I have been getting all kinds of advice from the forum lately so I figured I'd throw this issue out there.

So recently I had to buy a new washing machine because my old one died. Since getting the new one I've noticed that when the machine drains the water has been backing up into the utility sink that sits next to the washer. i don't remember ever seeing this happen with the old washer, but maybe it did and I just never noticed it.

Anyway, my guess is that the new machine pumps out water faster than the old one. Seeing as though my house is 90 years old I'm assuming that my plumbing system does not have enough ventilation to service this new washer. the kitchen sink, utility sink, and washer are all serviced by a 2.5" vent pipe to the roof. in the attic the pipe gets a bit wider and is around 4-5 inches at the roof. The venting pipe starts in the wall behind the kitchen sink (directly above the washing machine and utility sink). The PVC pipe seen in the pic below goes up to the kitchen sink drain.

any ideas on how to remedy this on the cheap? I'm thinking air admittance valve that will service the washing machine. Would that work?

IMG_5321.jpg
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Post edited by tryrrthg on

Comments

  • WilliamM2WilliamM2 Posts: 4,703
    edited April 2010
    I just installed an AAV due to my washer overflowing the standpipe, works great and hasn't overflowed since. It's usually installed after the trap of the device it's servicing. Not sure it would solve your issue, as I'm not sure you have a venting problem, the sink is farther downstream.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 14,996
    edited April 2010
    I would get your sewer pipe snaked first....
  • tryrrthgtryrrthg Posts: 1,900
    edited April 2010
    Lorthos wrote: »
    I would get your sewer pipe snaked first....
    I did that. maybe I'll do it again.
    Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15
  • hearingimparedhearingimpared Banned Posts: 21,473
    edited April 2010
    I recently had this same problem but a little different. When I would flush the toilet more than once, all kinds of crap would back up from the bottom of the toilet (yes I know the wax seal needs to be reseated) as well as the bathtub. When the washer would expel the dirty water I would get the same back up.

    After trying different things, plunging, snaking the toilet etc, we had the sewer company come out and clear the line that runs along the street perpendicular to my home and the homes on either side of me. That fixed the problem thank God.

    My next step would have been to get Roto Rooter to come out and clear the line from the front of the house out to the sewer in the street which would have cost a pretty penny.
    sucks2beme wrote: »
    Crap is a sound signature, isn't it?
    madmax wrote: »
    Nothing like vinyl, thats for sure.
    madmax


    Quotes of the year!!!
  • jimmydepjimmydep Posts: 1,309
    edited April 2010
    First I would snake out the line from the kitchen sink to the main, since you're wet venting the laundry with the kitchen sink, you want to make sure both the vent and waste lines are clear.

    Second, I would replace the Wye fitting to the washing machine with a T Wye and increase the length of the trap arm to about 2' and make sure the stand pipe is at least 3' high.

    It looks as if the piping is only 1-1/2" so adding an air admittance valve for the washing machine would help (if it's allowed in your State).

    Also make sure you're using the correct detergent in the machine. Some of the new machines require you to use an "HE" detergent. Too many suds could cause the drain line to act as if it's clogged (assuming the drain line is clear).

    PM me with your # if you need more help.


    Jimmy
  • hearingimparedhearingimpared Banned Posts: 21,473
    edited April 2010
    jimmydep wrote: »
    First I would snake out the line from the kitchen sink to the main, since you're wet venting the laundry with the kitchen sink, you want to make sure both the vent and waste lines are clear.

    Second, I would replace the Wye fitting to the washing machine with a T Wye and increase the length of the trap arm to about 2' and make sure the stand pipe is at least 3' high.

    It looks as if the piping is only 1-1/2" so adding an air admittance valve for the washing machine would help (if it's allowed in your State).

    Also make sure you're using the correct detergent in the machine. Some of the new machines require you to use an "HE" detergent. Too many suds could cause the drain line to act as if it's clogged (assuming the drain line is clear).

    PM me with your # if you need more help.


    Jimmy

    Jimmy, while we are on the topic of plumming, what is involved in changing the wax seal in the base of my toilet. Not knowing squat about plumbing I'm afraid to tackle this without some guidance.

    Thanks,
    Joe
    sucks2beme wrote: »
    Crap is a sound signature, isn't it?
    madmax wrote: »
    Nothing like vinyl, thats for sure.
    madmax


    Quotes of the year!!!
  • WilliamM2WilliamM2 Posts: 4,703
    edited April 2010
    Jimmy, while we are on the topic of plumming, what is involved in changing the wax seal in the base of my toilet. Not knowing squat about plumbing I'm afraid to tackle this without some guidance.

    Thanks,
    Joe

    Not much to it. First turn off the water supply, flush the toilet to empty the tank, remove the water supply line. Lift up toilet, remove old ring, install new ring. bolt it back down and re-connect the water supply.
  • hearingimparedhearingimpared Banned Posts: 21,473
    edited April 2010
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    Not much to it. First turn off the water supply, flush the toilet to empty the tank, remove the water supply line. Lift up toilet, remove old ring, install new ring. bolt it back down and re-connect the water supply.

    Is there a trick to disconnecting the water line or is it simply a screw off deal? Also doesn't the toilet have to be aligned just right to get it seated properly on the wax ring?
    sucks2beme wrote: »
    Crap is a sound signature, isn't it?
    madmax wrote: »
    Nothing like vinyl, thats for sure.
    madmax


    Quotes of the year!!!
  • Vette C6.rVette C6.r Posts: 1,512
    edited April 2010
    doesn't the toilet have to be aligned just right to get it seated properly on the wax ring?

    Joe, I hope you don't use phone books for this too !!!!
  • hearingimparedhearingimpared Banned Posts: 21,473
    edited April 2010
    Vette C6.r wrote: »
    joe, i hope you don't use phone books for this too !!!!

    lmao!
    sucks2beme wrote: »
    Crap is a sound signature, isn't it?
    madmax wrote: »
    Nothing like vinyl, thats for sure.
    madmax


    Quotes of the year!!!
  • jimmydepjimmydep Posts: 1,309
    edited April 2010
    Vette C6.r wrote: »
    Joe, I hope you don't use phone books for this too !!!!

    When you use the phone books......just look under "P" for plumbers..:p:):rolleyes:

    Joe, I'm a better plumber than I am a typist, so PM me your # and when you're ready, I'll talk you through it. On a scale of 1-5, 5 being the hardest, it's a 2 wrench job ......


    Jimmy
  • hearingimparedhearingimpared Banned Posts: 21,473
    edited April 2010
    Thank you sir! I will take you up on your offer.
    sucks2beme wrote: »
    Crap is a sound signature, isn't it?
    madmax wrote: »
    Nothing like vinyl, thats for sure.
    madmax


    Quotes of the year!!!
  • kcoc321kcoc321 Posts: 1,779
    edited April 2010
    to add to what JimmyP said, I would get the laundry drain down as low as possible plus I had this problem and I solved it by adding a 4"dia loop section for the standpipe, with a 1.5" bushing at the top end. It gave the drain pipe enough capacity to hold the water while it drained.
  • tryrrthgtryrrthg Posts: 1,900
    edited April 2010
    jimmydep wrote: »
    First I would snake out the line from the kitchen sink to the main, since you're wet venting the laundry with the kitchen sink, you want to make sure both the vent and waste lines are clear.

    Second, I would replace the Wye fitting to the washing machine with a T Wye and increase the length of the trap arm to about 2' and make sure the stand pipe is at least 3' high.

    It looks as if the piping is only 1-1/2" so adding an air admittance valve for the washing machine would help (if it's allowed in your State).

    Also make sure you're using the correct detergent in the machine. Some of the new machines require you to use an "HE" detergent. Too many suds could cause the drain line to act as if it's clogged (assuming the drain line is clear).

    PM me with your # if you need more help.


    Jimmy

    Thanks! I think taking out the wye and replacing it with a "T" is out of my skill set seeing as how all that mess would likely have to be redone because of the lack of extra PVC to work with right above the wye (plus I'm trying to sell the house at the moment)

    Could I just leave the wye there and do everything else you described? If you look at the attached picture, I would cut off the stuff to the right of the green line, put in a new elbow like the one circled in red, then make the arm to the trap 2 feet long, or so, and then add the trap and stand pipe. If I wanted to I could add the AAV valve on the 2 foot trap arm section, right?
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  • jimmydepjimmydep Posts: 1,309
    edited April 2010
    tryrrthg wrote: »
    Thanks! I think taking out the wye and replacing it with a "T" is out of my skill set seeing as how all that mess would likely have to be redone because of the lack of extra PVC to work with right above the wye (plus I'm trying to sell the house at the moment)

    Could I just leave the wye there and do everything else you described? If you look at the attached picture, I would cut off the stuff to the right of the green line, put in a new elbow like the one circled in red, then make the arm to the trap 2 feet long, or so, and then add the trap and stand pipe. If I wanted to I could add the AAV valve on the 2 foot trap arm section, right?

    You can leave the Wye, just cut the pipe and use a 45 degree fitting (1/8th bend) and install a 2' + trap arm, a new trap and a 3' stand pipe. With this piping arrangement you'll need to install an AAV into a tee on the trap arm. Make sure the vertical pipe for the AAV extends 6" above the top of the standpipe. By doing it this way you'll eliminate any venting problems with the washing machine.

    Just a word of caution, AAV's are not legal in all States so check your local codes (NJ. being one of them).

    You should still snake out the drain line, since grease from the kitchen sink and the lint from the Washing machine usually causes a build up in the already undersized waste line.

    If you're on a septic tank, and your tank was having a problem, the first place it would show up would be at the lowest fixture.

    Call me if you need more help.

    Jimmy
  • tryrrthgtryrrthg Posts: 1,900
    edited April 2010
    Thanks!

    The last plumber I had in my house told me to use an AAV valve when I was putting in a half bath. They also sell them at my local Lowes. So I'm going to assume they are approved by code.
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  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited April 2010
    Drain it into the sink, done. ;)
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • tryrrthgtryrrthg Posts: 1,900
    edited April 2010
    RuSsMaN wrote: »
    Drain it into the sink, done. ;)

    That has crossed my mind but I figured the potential buyers (and home inspector) would wonder why I'm not utilizing the standpipe that is there...
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  • tryrrthgtryrrthg Posts: 1,900
    edited April 2010
    jimmydep wrote: »
    You can leave the Wye, just cut the pipe and use a 45 degree fitting (1/8th bend) and install a 2' + trap arm, a new trap and a 3' stand pipe.
    one more quick question. when you say a 3' stand pipe do you mean at least 3' off the floor or the pipe has to be 3' long above the top of the trap?
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  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,839
    edited April 2010
    tryrrthg wrote: »
    That has crossed my mind but I figured the potential buyers (and home inspector) would wonder why I'm not utilizing the standpipe that is there...

    tell them you did not want all the clothing lint in the sewer pipe to avoid a plumbing issue. put a lint screen on the end of the hose or get a lint trap for the drain sold at Lowes,Menards and other places. either work great.
  • jimmydepjimmydep Posts: 1,309
    edited April 2010
    tryrrthg wrote: »
    one more quick question. when you say a 3' stand pipe do you mean at least 3' off the floor or the pipe has to be 3' long above the top of the trap?

    A piece of pipe 3' long.

    As Russman said, if you're still having a problem with the line backing up, you could eliminate the stand pipe and dump directly into the sink (not my 1st choice), but you'll still have to deal with the original drainage problem and have to snake the line at some point anyway.

    You can install a lint screen on the discharge line even when using a standpipe. I have 2 active laundry rooms in my home, both with standpipes and metal lint screens that I clean every few months. My front loader which gets most of the use has hardly any lint, while the top loader has twice as much.

    Jimmy
  • tryrrthgtryrrthg Posts: 1,900
    edited April 2010
    is there anything I can use to clean the walls of the main drain that the washer drains to? If I snake it, the snake will just break up any clogs, but if there is gunk stuck to the walls of the pipe the snake won't get to most of that.
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  • jimmydepjimmydep Posts: 1,309
    edited April 2010
    tryrrthg wrote: »
    is there anything I can use to clean the walls of the main drain that the washer drains to? If I snake it, the snake will just break up any clogs, but if there is gunk stuck to the walls of the pipe the snake won't get to most of that.

    After snaking and running a good amount of hot water down the drain, you can use this biological drain cleaner to remove the residual soft sludge left behind.

    http://www.plumbingsupply.com/smalldraincleaners.html

    Use it at night, at least 3 times a week for 2-3 weeks then about once a month thereafter.

    Jimmy
  • tryrrthgtryrrthg Posts: 1,900
    edited April 2010
    jimmydep wrote: »
    After snaking and running a good amount of hot water down the drain, you can use this biological drain cleaner to remove the residual soft sludge left behind.

    http://www.plumbingsupply.com/smalldraincleaners.html

    Use it at night, at least 3 times a week for 2-3 weeks then about once a month thereafter.

    Jimmy
    I bought this stuff and it says to mix 2 cap fulls of the pellets with 12 oz of water. is that even going to get past the trap? I need it to get in and clean the line under the basement floor.

    There is a larger "dose" that they say to use on toilets. it's a gallon of water mixed with 2 tablespoons of the pellets.
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  • jimmydepjimmydep Posts: 1,309
    edited April 2010
    tryrrthg wrote: »
    I bought this stuff and it says to mix 2 cap fulls of the pellets with 12 oz of water. is that even going to get past the trap? I need it to get in and clean the line under the basement floor.

    There is a larger "dose" that they say to use on toilets. it's a gallon of water mixed with 2 tablespoons of the pellets.

    I usually mix about 1/2-1 gallon and treat all the smaller drain lines. Put about 2 cups in each drain + 1 cup of water. It will end up in the lines eventually, what you're trying to do is allow the bacteria to embed itself in the sludge, and allow enough time for it to colonize using the sludge as a food source. Over a short period of time it will dissolve the sludge. So it's important for you to put it in the drain and not use the drain for 8 or more hours.

    I don't suggest using it in toilets, because I never saw any benefit unless you were treating a septic system.

    Don't be afraid of treating the drains frequently, as this will not harm the pipes or the environment. You should see an improvement in about 2-4 days.


    Jimmy
  • jimmydepjimmydep Posts: 1,309
    edited April 2010
    tryrrthg, How are the treatments working? have you noticed a difference yet?
  • tryrrthgtryrrthg Posts: 1,900
    edited April 2010
    I used the drain cleaning stuff a few times the first week. The other night I finally found some extra time so I snaked the heck out of the drain and haven't had a chance to use the treatment since then. I tested the washer again after snaking and I get very little water in the sink during the test. I need to start putting the drain cleaning stuff in the drain at night again but it seems like we've had to run the dishwasher every night this week when we go to bed so I haven't bothered with the drain treatment since the dishwasher would mess up the 8 hours for it to do its thing.

    I never got a chance to try to re-do the PVC to the washer.

    I will start using the treatment again soon. But things have definitely improved since starting treatment and using the snake again.

    Thanks again for the help!
    Sony KDL-40V2500 HDTV, Rotel RSX-1067 Receiver, Sony BDP-S550 Blu-ray, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Polk RTi6, CSi3 & R15, DIY sub with Atlas 15
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 10,839
    Alexbronson reported
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