Nike' and Kapernick together now.

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  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,116
    edited September 2018
    deronb1 wrote: »
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    Am I the only one shocked this thread is still alive? No I can’t be!! Someone is on vacation!!

    Actually, I think its been a healthy, civil discussion, for the most part. No name calling or blatant disrespect of anothers opions. Kinda proud of us for that! :)

    Agreed, hope it stays that way and open.

    I have read a lot of great comments from both sides. I can even agree with some points from both sides.

    I hope everyone will stay respectful so this isn’t shut down.

    Edit: I have also learned from this thread.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,760
    edited September 2018
    Was Ben Carson, Colin Powell or Condelezza Rice hindered by the color of their skin? ANYONE, who has succeeded, including minorities, will say exactly that.

    Actually Ben Carson and Colin Powell have mentioned the effects of racism on their careers and personal lives, but they succeeded in spite of it. Gen. Powell's wife, Alma, went on record saying that one of the reasons he was not interested in being nominated for the office of POTUS was because he didn't want to deal with racist death threats and attempts on his life. Condoleeza Rice has spoken of the effects of both racism and sexism on her career.

    So, while racism did not prevent them becoming successful, it did prevent them from rising as high, professionally and economically, as they could have. They also had to work much harder than their white peers for similar outcomes (the so-called "black tax").



    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    stretchl wrote: »
    Today’s MVT (most valuable tweet) award:
    aj6lpn5soxv8.png

    Ralph Lauren Polo. :p:D

    His clothes fit me perfect. Even the socks. ;)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,034
    edited September 2018
    Was Ben Carson, Colin Powell or Condelezza Rice hindered by the color of their skin? ANYONE, who has succeeded, including minorities, will say exactly that.

    Actually Ben Carson and Colin Powell have mentioned the effects of racism on their careers and personal lives, but they succeeded in spite of it. Gen. Powell's wife, Alma, went on record saying that one of the reasons he was not interested in being nominated for the office of POTUS was because he didn't want to deal with racist death threats. Condoleeza Rice has spoken of the effects of both racism and sexism on her career.

    So, while racism did not prevent them becoming successful, it did prevent them from rising as high, professionally and economically, as they could have. They also had to work much harder than their white peers for similar outcomes.



    So, but for racism, General Powell, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, would have run for President? Good thing Barack Obama didn't get that memo.

    I find that hard to believe or accept, as it would imply a level of cowardice(and I use that term lightly here) that the General and Sec/State was not known for.

    They also had to work much harder than their white peers for similar outcomes.

    Again, I didn't see President Obama do much more than make great speeches, and he made it all the way to the top with little to slow him down. Not even the fabled Clinton Machine was able to even create a speedbump for a man with almost no political experience whatsoever from making it all the way to the Oval.

    So much for that argument.
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    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,837
    deronb1 wrote: »
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    Am I the only one shocked this thread is still alive? No I can’t be!! Someone is on vacation!!

    Actually, I think its been a healthy, civil discussion, for the most part. No name calling or blatant disrespect of anothers opions. Kinda proud of us for that! :)

    I agree, I have enjoyed it, this is just how it should be...
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    In before the lock, I'm gonna go watch the WET, oh wait, there isn't one... That would be wrong...

    With dozens of white-owned TV networks and hundreds of channels of TV programming aimed at white audiences, what would be the point of a White Entertainment Television network? Most TV networks are a "WET" by default aren't they?

    Ever since "The Cosby Show" aired, and ran for many years and enjoyed by whites and others alike, any show that has aired since, has been for ANYBODY to enjoy. If they were for whites only, there would've been such an outrage everybody from coast to coast would be calling it out.

    In fact, I've seen a "Blacks targeted" audience show or two that goes under the radar because nobody wants to call them for what they are. Seriously cutting down the white race? Crickets...

    But let one openly conservative ( NOT RACE) targeted show come on, and the main character gets fired asap for tweeting one comparative sentence. And there were black people who agreed with Rosanne. That was sad considering what other news anchors and co-hosts said about others. Joy Behar (sp.) calling our Vice President and ALL serious Christians "mentally deranged". She still has a job. She said she was sorry. But Rosanne....NO WAY. Go the way of Howard Cosell. Banished to the desert! WORDS...

    I guess that is what CK is protesting.

    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • stretchl
    stretchl Posts: 1,334
    edited September 2018
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    I agree, I have enjoyed it, this is just how it should be...

    IOW, exactly how it’s comfortable for white people to discuss racism: In a group overwhelmingly (exclusively?) made up of white people.
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'
    - Isaac Asimov

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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    I guess it mirrors the USA.

    Are you calling the ratio of participants UNFAIR and oppressing the minorities from responding? :)

    Just kidding. :p
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • deronb1
    deronb1 Posts: 5,021
    stretchl wrote: »
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    I agree, I have enjoyed it, this is just how it should be...

    IOW, exactly how it’s comfortable for white people to discuss racism: In a group of overwhelmingly (exclusively?) white people.

    I believe he was referring to civility in comparison to the train wreck that is most social media discussions on hot button topics.
  • jeremymarcinko
    jeremymarcinko Posts: 3,785
    edited September 2018
    I can agree on the premise, for anyone to succeed they must work much harder than their peers.

    Of course to define successful is another matter. For me success is as relative to where one started as it is where they finished.

    I also think that racism masquerades in geographical and social disadvantages. If one is born into a good neighborhood with a good school system, positive role models, and a demonstrated value system conducive to developing a solid education and benevolence then the perception of racism is sparse.

    Yes racism absolutely exists and it’s unfortunate on all accounts. It is bipolar, and it can exist within all of us at times without us even knowing.

    We are also all affected by it, but how one chooses to respond to it is what will make all the difference. Racism is defeated by unity and mutual respect not by public demonstrations of a controversial act.
    Post edited by jeremymarcinko on
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • shawn474
    shawn474 Posts: 3,047
    edited September 2018
    tonyb wrote: »
    Actually, many black people were, and are, opposed to the concept of a BHM. A better solution would be to properly document the contributions of all of U.S. citizens along side each other in the history texts and other historical records.

    Your absolutely spot on, agreed. A simple solution for a small problem, yet we can't seem to do even that. The goal has changed Ray.

    Shawn, sorry you feel that way, but I know for myself, I can certainly at least grasp an idea of what Blacks went through out our spotted history. However they don't own the subjects of racism or slavery, every race on the planet has had to endure those things at some point in history.

    Today, nothing mirrors the racism and injustices of the past, so it's a bit disingenuous to try and equate the past to today. We are talking today, and from my perspective, there is nothing a black man can't do that I as a white man can. If there is, tell me so and we'll discuss it.



    Don’t be sorry for a way that I feel; just like I don’t feel sorry for the way you feel. We feel what we feel and that’s ok. Notice I didn’t say black or African American- I said minority. My grandmother was full blood Iroquois. Had some horrible stories to tell about her family and their treatment. My father has firsthand experience of it to this day witnessed by me on countless occasions. That’s good enough for me to formulate an experience and one that I don’t feel necessary to validate to anyone. Not being standoffish - just the way I see it. You can have your viewpoint on whatever you find valid in others experiences but again I would caution anyone to make presumptions based on their own perceptions. That’s the way I choose to live my life. And my father is a 76 year old Persian man who loves to play bridge, treats others with respect and has shown great dignity, tolerance and restraint on countless occasions. Basically, what I am saying is I had a good teacher.....

    I also can see where this has gone awry. I work at a University who had a contingent of scholars research the history of the school. Found out that slaves built the majority of the buildings. The school set up a committee to determine what reparations were necessary to make things right......not sure how I feel about that except to say that I am not a minority so I don’t know how it feels to be in that situation.
    Shawn
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  • So, but for racism, General Powell, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, would have run for President? Good thing Barack Obama didn't get that memo.

    I find that hard to believe or accept, as it would imply a level of cowardice (and I use that term lightly here) that the General and Sec/State was not known for.

    Barack Obama and Colin Powell are two different individuals. It is not cowardice to want to avoid unnecessarily putting yourself in harms way or to want to put your life under that kind of scrutiny..
    They also had to work much harder than their white peers for similar outcomes.


    Again, I didn't see President Obama do much more than make great speeches, and he made it all the way to the top with little to slow him down.

    Barack Obama ran one of the most successful "grass roots" campaigns in the history of politics. If he had just sat back, relaxed and done the "normal" amount of campaigning, he would not have won either election.
    Not even the fabled Clinton Machine was able to even create a speedbump for a man with almost no political experience whatsoever from making it all the way to the Oval.
    So much for that argument.

    Hmmmmm....

    Barack Obama was

    A Illinois state senator for 7 years 10 months
    A US Senator for 3 years 10 months.

    But in your mind, 11 years 8 months of senior political positions at the state and national levels equates to "almost no political experience whatsoever" right? OK.

    Strangely enough, the U.S. Constitution says nothing about "political experience" in the list of qualifications for the presidency. To serve as president, one must:

    1. Be a natural-born U.S. citizen of the United States;
    2. Be at least thirty-five years old;
    3. Be a resident in the United States for at least fourteen years.






    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,034
    edited September 2018
    Mr. Obama’s voting record from the U.S Senate...

    Missed Votes...

    From Jan 2005 to Oct 2008, Obama missed 314 of 1,300 roll call votes, which is 24.2%. This is much worse than the median of 2.2% among the lifetime records of senators serving in Oct 2008.

    When comparing his qualifications to that of Clinton, well there is no comparison. You are right, however, it was his time to shine. It would also be a much more accurate portrayal of Colin Powell's decision not to run as not wanting to subject himself or his family to that kind of scrutiny. He most likely would have run as a McCain-type Republican. and the things they would have thrown at him and his family would have been beyond the pale.


    The sad thing today about our politics is the most qualified won't even think of tossing their hat into the ring because of the vitriolic, invasive and general nastiness of it. If Jesus were to run, they would say he is a chronic alcoholic for turning water into wine, and he is mentally unstable for talking to God.
    Post edited by nooshinjohn on
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    I remember Colin Powell saying the ONLY reason was because of his wife. He was ready I think, and he might've won too.

    I liked Colin Powell too!
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,042
    tonyb wrote: »
    The cake dude, glad he won, though it was a small win. Constitution also grants people the right of association. I don't have to associate with you for any reason I see fit.
    Example....someone walks into a joint with a MAGA hat on, owner askes them to leave. He has every right to do so.

    Isn't that basically what happened to Sarah Huckabee? Then everyone freaked out about "What happened to being civil?"
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,042
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Just to quickly get back to Kapernick and Nike, which is the point of this thread...

    40685612_10215087019481056_687376259793027072_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=00c0e2bb44d870bd2e7aafb52f4dfc49&oe=5C29CE73

    Think about that for a second...


    Tom

    One guy kneeling has people burning shoes but they were okay buying them knowing this.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 6,646
    edited September 2018
    Why do people use an apostrophe when pluralizing things? That's just stupid.
  • Nooshinjohn< you mention Powell, Rice and Carson as example of African Americans that made it soley on their own hard works, but that tells me that you don't really know their stories. Powell face racism as a young Lt, and Rice Parents had to move to Colorado each summer so her parents could go to college to attain their advance degrees because they were not allowed to take classes at the local university where they lived. So racism has played a role in each of their lives at some point. And they faced undue hardships that their counter parts did not. In most cases it was their support system of family or someone stepped in on their behave to hold off the doubters of there abilities.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,034
    Nope... I understand their backgrounds quite well. I hold them up as examples of letting nothing stand in their way of success. Condi, for example, was instrumental in brining about the fall of the Soviet Union. If she had been like the majority of people, she could have just rolled on through life and not pursued anything more than what she was given, and that is the key word.


    Instead, she wanted more. She wanted a life of significance. How many of us have that drive and determination?


    Bottom line is they did not let their backgrounds define them or dictate their lives. They made their own rules, based in hard work, dedication to a higher purpose, and achieved great things. As I raise my own boy to manhood, their example will help form some of my guidance to him. He will have an understanding of what kind of person he needs to become to achieve his definition of greatness.
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    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,711
    I had rocks thrown at me by 4 black men as I was walking down the other side of the street minding my own business, then they started charging me calling me racist names. When I pulled out something to defend myself with they all ran away. Don't you tell me only white people are capable of racism because that dog don't hunt.

    Speaking of racism, I've lived and traveled abroad. Any of you think it's bad here, you haven't seen what bad is.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,034
    Try being an American in Hiroshima on August 6th... been there and done that.
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    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • So what is the correct, non-racist definition of racism?

    First, this is NOT my definition of racism:

    Racism is the combination of prejudice with the power to have serious detrimental effect on the life of a person of a different race. Without the power aspect, racism, or any other discriminatory -ism can't exist.

    Nope. Racism has NOTHING to do with the "institutional reins of power".
    That's malarkey.

    Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another race.
    Period.
    No legal linguistic loopholes of "I can't be racist, because I don't have the institutional reins of power".
    Racism is racism.

    An example: The Rolling 60's (Crips) in North St. Louis.
    If you're white ,you're a target. Period.
    They don't have "institutional power" so by a LOT of peoples' definition, they can't be racist.
    That's malarkey.
    Provide examples of how white people collectively have been disadvantaged by
    BLM
    SPLC
    BBPP

    I first need to ask you to define the term "Collectively".
    100 % of all white people ?
    >50% ?
    > X% of non-white people who have been collectively disadvantage by white institutional racism ?
    Sal Palooza
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