Nike' and Kapernick together now.

1567911

Comments

  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    edited September 2018
    Antebellum South is a whole lot better than Rwanda was just a couple decades ago, was it not?


    I don't see chains on any NLF players ankles. White or black. Sorry, you brought me here.

    Playing the race/slave card to discredit a great point I made? Sure you are. Slavery was ended in 1864. this is 2018... man.

    Racism is the combination of prejudice with the power to have serious detrimental effect on the life of a person of a different race. Without the power aspect, racism, or any other discriminatory -ism can't exist. (DK)

    Reginald Denny comes to my mind. When has a white mob destroyed city streets by burning and trashing little mom and pop businesses. Has CK sent money down to Ferguson to help those store owners out who were seriously affected by "their own race of people"? I doubt it but maybe he did. :)

    https://youtu.be/YcFiz1GGYCk



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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,034
    Racism happens to everybody, including white people like me. As soon as we accept the fact that all groups are guilty of it the sooner we can fix it.

    It is very unlikely that the average white person will ever encounter a racist incident in their entire life because most white people only live and interact with other white people. Some white people will be individually affected by racism, but racism is not a concern for white people, in the U.S., collectively.

    Racism is the combination of prejudice with the power to have serious detrimental effect on the life of a person of a different race. Without the power aspect, racism, or any other discriminatory -ism can't exist.

    Do some individual non-whites have the power to be racist toward whites? Yes, of course. Does any particular group of non-whites have the collective power to be racist toward whites? No. No way. Non-whites don't collectively control the government, banks, media, and schools.

    Gotta call bs here Ray... governments absolutely have that power and I have seen it. Ramsey County Highway Department in Minnesota was sued over their practice of not hiring women and minorities way back in the 1970’s.... the minority issue was fixed by awarding points to minority test scores simply for being a minority, and eliminating a portion of the test minority applicants did poorly on. After all, the ability to use math when building a road surface is not an essential skill..... Many whites who would otherwise been qualified, did not get those jobs, while unqualified minorities did.

    The women were another issue altogether. They scored quite well on the written test... better than men on average, but when it came to the physical requirements, they failed time and again. The county was forced to lower standards for lifting among others...

    I believe a case could be made that the government at every level is capable of descrimination, even against whites. The Supreme Court also has, on numerous occasions, agreed.

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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,760
    edited September 2018
    tonyb wrote: »
    C'mon Ray, even for you, comparing the NFL to slavery is a tremendous stretch.

    You misunderstood. I was not comparing the NFL to slavery. People go into the NFL voluntarily.

    My point was that we should not excuse some misbehavior of an organization or system just because it provides high economic benefit.

    This is the same excuse that environmental polluting companies use: "don't look at how much we are poisoning your bodies and the environment...look at all the high paying jobs we provide and property taxes we pay."
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Racism happens to everybody, including white people like me. As soon as we accept the fact that all groups are guilty of it the sooner we can fix it.

    It is very unlikely that the average white person will ever encounter a racist incident in their entire life because most white people only live and interact with other white people. Some white people will be individually affected by racism, but racism is not a concern for white people, in the U.S., collectively.


    It is almost impossible Ray, for whites to only interact with other whites in the diverse population we have.

    You also said,
    "Some white people will be individually affected by racism, but racism is not a concern for white people, in the U.S., collectively."

    We could replace the word whites with blacks and make the same assumptions, no ?

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,704
    edited September 2018

    1. Millions and millions of beneficial jobs for "workers".
    2. Free RELOCATION benefits for "workers".
    3. Free health care for "workers".
    4. Free housing for "workers".
    5. Free food for "workers".
    6. Lifetime employment.
    7. Generous "retirement" benefits.
    8. Millions and millions of beneficial jobs for those in support industries that
    supply goods and services to the government.

    What's not to like? Certainly an institution that offered such outstanding "employee" benefits would be beyond reproach...right?

    Changed the last sentence of number 8 to fit current times as that is what many in this country would like to see happen. It's more commonly called socialism. Heck, it worked out well for Russia and Cuba, didn't it!?!


    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    edited September 2018
    My point was that we should not excuse some misbehavior of an organization or system just because it provides high economic benefit.(DK)

    What misbehavior has the NFL done? the owners getting together to discuss the disruptive nature CK had started?
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • decal
    decal Posts: 3,205
    Colin who ?
    If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Tony M wrote: »
    My point was that we should not excuse some misbehavior of an organization or system just because it provides high economic benefit.(DK)

    What misbehavior has the NFL done? the owners getting together to discuss the disruptive nature CK had started?

    Actually, on that point Ray is right. So we are holding the organization of the NFL accountable for misbehaving.

    What have they done ?

    Let politics seep into the game
    Support or promote hate mongers
    Allow disrespect of our Flag and country
    Failure to police their own, such as criminals who are allowed to play the game.
    Failure to broadcast the national anthem, which is traditional, not a law, but a tradition many would like to see kept.

    So yes holding them accountable regardless of economic output is indeed the plan. However, some will perceive that as racist, taking money away from people of color should anyone get let go or punished for protesting.

    Some may even call that an example of institutional racism, others call that, actions have consequences.
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    WLDock wrote: »
    Well, I think all will agree that true equality is very complex thing to achieve.

    Like the brilliant man said Sun. night on that Levin show, It's 1000% better for blacks than it was in the 60's and it's getting better every day. But he worried there's too many people who want to play the blame card for what happened in the past.

    Look at Ray's house and look at mine... :D I should feel oppressed by how my Gov. taxed me and how the police pulled me over 3 times for dwi, which I was fine by the way, and caused me to not have what Ray has. I don't covet what my fellow humans have. I did one time but I soon was alerted to this man's deathly medical condition and what good what it be to have all that wealth if you're going to die in a year. Well, he survived his surgery and is doing fine . Still wealthy as anybody down here but that's his lifestyle. Not mine.

    But I don't hate Ray. He made choices that got him where he is. Did he have help, I don't care. He's there. Enjoying his lifestyle. And no Ray, I don't envy or secretly want to be you. I do applaud you though. Your home and study reports are 1st Class.

    I made choices and I had some major friken setbacks and yes, racial injustice perpetrated on me employment wise. I might've gotten financially able to afford college at night back then but it wasn't in the cards for me.

    I had years of experience in this one field. I trained a black guy. He was a good friend and a great guy too. He would get high at lunch though. Only he and I knew about it, I think.

    And I don't call people by their color if I can help it. I see people, not races, unless it's mob violence. Then I look close.

    It's just to show that an asst. Managers' job became open and the co. needed a minority in it's management since the Government of the USA mandated diversity during that time. I was upset for a while ( 1 month maybe) and then I met this girl and my thoughts went in a better direction.

    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    OK, Let's get back to this:

    https://www.theroot.com/heres-how-many-people-police-killed-in-2017-1821706614
    The Root wrote:
    Police officers killed 1,129 people in 2017.

    More people died from police violence in 2017 than the total number of U.S. soldiers killed in action around the globe (21). More people died at the hands of police in 2017 than the number of black people who were lynched in the worst year of Jim Crow (161 in 1892). Cops killed more Americans in 2017 than terrorists did (four). They killed more citizens than airplanes (13 deaths worldwide), mass shooters (428 deaths) and Chicago’s “top gang thugs” (675 Chicago homicides).

    Yet only 12 officers were charged with a crime related to a shooting death.

    An extensive new study from Mapping Police Violence details the data for police violence. The collective tracks police shooting numbers and statistics, maps the incidents and compiles the data in real time. The site uses information from a number of sources, including Killed by Police, Fatal Encounters and the U.S. Police Shootings Database, to break down shootings by race, location, weapons used, and whether or not the victim was armed. It is a valuable tool used by academics, researchers and certain writers at The Root.

    Aside from the fact that only 1 percent of the officers who killed someone were charged with a crime in 2017, some of the report’s most interesting facts include the following:

    -Of the 534 killer cops Mapping Police Violence was able to identify, 43 had shot or killed someone before. Twelve had previously shot or killed multiple people.

    -Most of the people killed (718) were suspects in nonviolent offenses, were stopped for traffic violations or had committed no crime at all.

    -13 percent of people killed by cops were unarmed.

    -Most of the unarmed victims were people of color. Of the 147 unarmed people killed by police, 48 were black and 34 were Hispanic.

    -Black people accounted for 27 percent of the people killed by law enforcement officers. Of the unarmed victims of police violence, blacks made up 37 percent, almost three times their percentage of the U.S. population (13 percent).

    -Of the people who were unarmed and not attacking, but were still killed by cops, 35 percent were black.

    -95 people were killed when police shot at a moving vehicle, a practice that many say should be banned.

    -170 of the people killed were armed with a knife. in 117 of those incidents, police shot the person before trying any other method to disarm the person.

    -20 percent of the people who had a gun when they were killed were not threatening anyone.

    -Law enforcement training spends seven times more hours training officers on the use of firearms than on how to de-escalate situations.

    Again, only 12 officers were charged with a crime after killing 1,129 citizens they were sworn to protect and serve. Here’s to another banner year of police getting away with murder.

    Can’t you feel America getting great again?
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,834
    edited September 2018
    Ha, white people don't deal with racism?? Laughable, I am a red headed white boy, I grew up in a very predominantly Latino/Mexican area, tell me how I never delt with racism?? my 7th grade year was straight F's due to the distractions of racism, I had to fight almost on the daily at school, my parents moved because of this, tell me where whites don't deal with it again?? SMDH..

    Please...

    I should note my wife went through the same as I did where she lived...

    Racism affects every race so save me the BS...
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    edited September 2018
    I like the stats but they don't begin to tell the life of cops. Have you seen the video of a cop getting shot in the chest as he walked up to a stopped car's driver's side. Or the video of the cop getting shot right after the driver stepped out of his car? Cops have it rough! Especially at night!

    How many millions of citizens were protected while the cops just seem to be out killing innocent victims or people following orders spoken out toward them.

    Ferguson again. The cop was attacked and almost would certainly have been killed by Brown. But the cop didn't shoot him at he was walking away, did he? He shot Brown as he turned and was coming back to assault the cop again. Brown wasn't armed, but he had BAD intentions! Very Bad. :s
    Post edited by Tony M on
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    la2vegas wrote: »

    I had years of experience in this one field. I trained a black guy. He was a good friend and a great guy too. He would get high at lunch though. Only he and I knew about it, I think.



    It's just to show that an asst. Managers' job became open and the co. needed a minority in it's management since the Government of the USA mandated diversity during that time. I was upset for a while ( 1 month maybe) and then I met this girl and my thoughts went in a better direction.


    I can see now where your pain comes from. [/quote]

    I have ZERO pain from that experience. ZERO racists thoughts. It was the Gov. I was mad at. Not my friend. HELL he apologized a half a dozen times to me KNOWING I was more ready for the job than he was. It was just a fact of life. I could've quit but heck, I was doing alright. The assist. Managers job was 25 miles away or more.

    Didn't you read the rest of that statement. 1 month, and it wasn't even thought of again. I'll never forget it, but it doesn't mean I've been suffering for 40 years over it. That's just STUPID to even come to think that AFTER I said this beauty took over my life. For over 7+ years at that!

    I think I've thought about that Co. appointing maybe......3 times in 40 years. :#

    Maybe I should go tear down one the Co. signs. It's offending me now that I remember that time 40 years ago. NOT. >:)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • chumlie
    chumlie Posts: 8,658
    kevhed72 wrote: »
    I just got a new to me Parasound A23 to replace my HCA1000 and love it. Ooooops....wrong thead!

    I just got a new Oppo to replace my Onkyo. :)
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    chumlie wrote: »
    kevhed72 wrote: »
    I just got a new to me Parasound A23 to replace my HCA1000 and love it. Ooooops....wrong thead!

    I just got a new Oppo to replace my Onkyo. :)

    I'm offended :/
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  • dr1978
    dr1978 Posts: 424
    deronb1 wrote: »

    I read the ruling. It seems the Commission focused too much on the religious aspect of it and not the law. That said, other choices sounds a lot like seperate but equal.

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for redress of grievances." First Amendment, U.S. Constitution

    It might help if you brush up on this as well. Colorado law infringed on his religious liberty, as guaranteed by the 1st amendment. That IS THE LAW, and is not open for debate unless Congress and 2/3rds of the state legislatures repeal the 1st amendment.

    According to the Supreme Court ruling it wasn't Colorado law that infringed upon the baker's religious liberty, but rather the Colorado Civil Rights Commission. The court ruled in favor of the baker because of the extreme disrespect that the commission showed towards his religious beliefs. That's what deronb1 was referring to. The issue of whether or not a business has the right to refuse service to someone based on their sexuality has not been resolved by the court.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,034
    edited September 2018
    You were fortunate that your parents afforded you the ability to escape from your oppressors. Imagine how your life would be without the luxury of being white.

    Seriously??? Imagine how life would be if we all gave up the crutch of it's not my fault because my skin color/creed/sex/orientation, or whatever else you can think of, cost me a job or opportunity, or that's why I am locked up....


    So sick of this crap. If you don't sell drugs, you don't go to jail. If you don't kill, you don't end up on death row, and if you don't speed, you don't get a ticket. If you work hard and do those things needed to achieve you dreams, you can get there, especially here in this country. Was Ben Carson, Colin Powell or Condelezza Rice hindered by the color of their skin? ANYONE, who has succeeded, including minorities, will say exactly that.


    It gets old for me to hear that the reason for failure is anyone or anything other than the man or woman in the mirror. Making excuses to absolve themselves from complete responsibility for their own lives is the oldest narcotic in the world.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,230
    It is very unlikely that the average white person will ever encounter a racist incident in their entire life because most white people only live and interact with other white people. Some white people will be individually affected by racism, but racism is not a concern for white people, in the U.S., collectively.

    STOP! That right there *may* be a widely held belief but I am here to tell you that it is pure hogwash. Examples have even been provided in this thread and I would not want to bore folks with many more examples I personally have run into throughout my life.

    Sorry man but I just have to laugh at that statement. It could not be more wrong.

    Tom

    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • Tony M wrote: »
    Antebellum South is a whole lot better than Rwanda was just a couple decades ago, was it not?

    The Rwandan genocide affected approximately 1,000,000 victims and lasted three months. Slavery in the Antebellum South affected approximately 5,000,000 victims and lasted 76 years (1789-1865). Further, the Rwandan victims were dealing with a calamity in their own homeland, which is quite different from being born and held in captivity in an unfamiliar land. So no, as much as you would like to think so, the Antebellum South was not better in any respect than Rwanda a couple decades ago.
    Tony M wrote: »
    I don't see chains on any NLF players ankles. White or black. Sorry, you brought me here.

    Refer to my response to Tonyb, who had the same misunderstanding as yours.
    Tony M wrote: »
    Playing the race/slave card to discredit a great point I made? Sure you are. Slavery was ended in 1864. this is 2018... man.

    If you were to get shot in the head in 1964, would someone be justified for making fun of you for not being able to walk and talk right 54 years later in 2018? What about people making fun of your family's lower socioeconomic position because you couldn't properly provide due to a decades old injury? Societal trauma, just like physical trauma, can have long lasting, even generational effects.
    Tony M wrote: »
    Reginald Denny comes to my mind. When has a white mob destroyed city streets by burning and trashing little mom and pop businesses.

    Here's a couple:

    Tulsa, Oklahoma, 1921:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ-vFlEZU6s

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot

    Rosewood, Florida, 1923:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TXj90wvCT8

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosewood_massacre
    Tony M wrote: »
    Has CK sent money down to Ferguson to help those store owners out who were seriously affected by "their own race of people"? I doubt it but maybe he did. :)

    I'm not privy to what CK does with his money. He has no obligation either way.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,892
    edited September 2018
    treitz3 wrote: »
    It is very unlikely that the average white person will ever encounter a racist incident in their entire life because most white people only live and interact with other white people. Some white people will be individually affected by racism, but racism is not a concern for white people, in the U.S., collectively.

    STOP! That right there *may* be a widely held belief but I am here to tell you that it is pure hogwash. Examples have even been provided in this thread and I would not want to bore folks with many more examples I personally have run into throughout my life.

    Sorry man but I just have to laugh at that statement. It could not be more wrong.

    Tom



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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,834
    edited September 2018
    la2vegas wrote: »
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    Ha, white people don't deal with racism?? Laughable, I am a red headed white boy, I grew up in a very predominantly Latino/Mexican area, tell me how I never delt with racism?? my 7th grade year was straight F's due to the distractions of racism, I had to fight almost on the daily at school, my parents moved because of this, tell me where whites don't deal with it again?? SMDH..

    Please...

    I should note my wife went through the same as I did where she lived...

    Racism affects every race so save me the BS...

    Larry it is evident by your description of events that you suffered from discrimination. However you found relief by relocating to a different place to call home. My question is how would you feel if regardless of where you live, regardless of your higher education, regardless of your socio-economic status. What if none of these factors brought you relief from a segment of society that is adamant in classifying you as a second class citizen?

    You were fortunate that your parents afforded you the ability to escape from your oppressors. Imagine how your life would be without the luxury of being white.

    LOL!!

    See you don't know, I came from a very poor family, my real dad died when I was two, seven days after my sister was born, we lived with my grandparents, they left the little house they owned to my mom years later, my mom was a waitress in a bar to help make ends meet, really you could call us white trash with how our family lived..

    You have no idea what it took for my mom to move us, so save your breath on discrimination, so it's only racism if you're something other than white??

    Did I ever say I didn't have issues after we moved? You Don't Know Me!!! so don't pretend to understand me because I am white!!!


    "Imagine how your life would be without the luxury of being white" Yes all white people have that luxury!!! LMAO!!!!

  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,760
    edited September 2018
    tonyb wrote: »
    It is almost impossible Ray, for whites to only interact with other whites in the diverse population we have.

    According to the 2010 census, the U.S. is 62% white.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States

    15 states have a white population of 85% or greater.
    15 states have a white population of 75% - 84.9%
    11 states have a white population of 65% - 74.9%

    If a white person lives in the middle of a major cosmopolitan urban center, then yes, I agree that it would be difficult to only interact with other whites. However, if a white person lives in one of the 41 states with LOW minority population, they could easily construct their life so that they only interact with white people. This becomes a default if a white person moves to some rural or suburban areas. Actually there is a term for it: white flight.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,230
    edited September 2018
    treitz3 wrote: »
    It is very unlikely that the average white person will ever encounter a racist incident in their entire life because most white people only live and interact with other white people. Some white people will be individually affected by racism, but racism is not a concern for white people, in the U.S., collectively.

    STOP! That right there *may* be a widely held belief but I am here to tell you that it is pure hogwash. Examples have even been provided in this thread and I would not want to bore folks with many more examples I personally have run into throughout my life.

    Sorry man but I just have to laugh at that statement. It could not be more wrong.

    Tom



    I won't be bored, I promise. So please share your experience.
    No thanks. I don't like dwelling in the past and it does not help me to get over those types of things by talking about it. It just gets me all riled up. I would rather stay positive and move past the things that I have experienced.

    The only thing I will mention is that it included murder and another member of this forum knows exactly whom I am referring too, as it was his family member who was murdered.

    That's all I will speak of this as talking about it won't help me or anybody else. I am just stating that his comments could not be more wrong and if anybody disagrees with me, I'm perfectly fine with that.

    We will simply just agree to disagree.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,034
    edited September 2018
    Bottom line is that until the first thing we see is another human being rather than a hyphenated statistic, we will never solve these problems. the different races are nothing more than a different breed of human being and all are beautiful in their own way.


    If we want to fix this problem of misunderstanding, it starts by embracing what makes us all the same, and celebrating and sharing the differences.
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  • F1nut wrote: »
    Changed the last sentence of number 8 to fit current times as that is what many in this country would like to see happen. It's more commonly called socialism. Heck, it worked out well for Russia and Cuba, didn't it!?!

    Russia and Cuba are examples of failed communist states, rather than socialist states, even though they like to refer to themselves as socialist. It is interesting to note that the ruling elites of Russia, Cuba, China, live (lavishly) by capitalist principles rather than as communists or socialists.

    Any type of economic system where individual initiative is discouraged and gains due to honest commerce are punitively taxed is doomed to failure.

    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • tonyb wrote: »
    "Some white people will be individually affected by racism, but racism is not a concern for white people, in the U.S., collectively."
    We could replace the word whites with blacks and make the same assumptions, no ?

    No, that would not be correct. Contrary to what many would like to believe, we have not yet achieved a post-racial society in the U.S.

    Since you think that institutional racism is a myth, we can agree to disagree on the point above.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • DK, you could also have included Brooklyn, Illinois, the Zoot Suit riots in LA, and the Chinese town in North Dakota that was obliterated (can't recall its name).

    In St. Louis, the premiere technical college is called Ranken. Period.
    Up until 1963, you could not enroll in Ranken if you were African-American. Period.

    In the half century since then things have changed drastically for the better.
    African-American ? Welcome aboard, we have scholarships and, more importantly, GRANTS specifically for you.

    You'd rather take a different academic route such as community college ? For several years, St. Louis Community College offered free tuition (now called "maintenance fee"), books, Student Government Association fee, and free BiState fare IF you are African-American.
    The College stopped that program after several years because it was a disaster.
    Why ? Long story short: 38% of ALL courses were classified as "Remedial". Math 001, English 001, etc.
    Students graduating from high schools in St. Louis were showing up for the free classes and discovering that they weren't able to complete even remedial level courses, things they should have learned in high school.

    Now, the administrative levels in the St. Louis Public Schools are DOMINATED by African-American "administrators". The St. Louis Public Schools are, to put it mildly, lacking.
    Do you think that they take responsibility for the poor functioning schools ?
    Who do you think they blame ?

    Sal Palooza
  • Toolfan66 wrote: »
    Ha, white people don't deal with racism??

    Sure, some individual white people experience racism, but what percentage of the white people in the U.S. do you think have a story to tell like yours?

    Nationally as a group, have red headed white boys:

    1. Been denied access to educational facilites?

    2. Been denied access to public facilities?

    3. Been denied access to adequate health care?

    4. Been denied access to veterans benefits?

    5. Been denied access to low cost home loans?

    etc., etc.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
This discussion has been closed.