Nike' and Kapernick together now.

zuul wrote: »

I'm a black man. And after reading this post here... I won't be coming back to club polk. Enjoyed myself here until today. It's obvious I'm not welcome here.

How did you deduct that from my post ? Assuming it was my post of course ? How is equality and a color blind society offensive ? How is just discussing the matter offensive ? I left lots of room for debate, yet those that claim they want to discuss these topics, never do when the opportunity presents itself.

Truly am sorry you feel unwelcomed, but I fail to see anything that was said to make you feel that way.

To anyone else....lets open the debate to anything in my long winded post. You can call it my opinion, but I assure you I'm not alone in those thoughts.

I'll start with a sticking point about Oppression that some seem to think is what Colin was originally protesting. If you can please point me to an example of this oppression I'd appreciate it, which should be easy since it's made out to be such a systemic problem in our society.

From where I sit in the cheap seats, and from my life experiences, I see none. In fact, I see more people of color given more than whites in some instances, more leeway. I'll bring up 2 examples for you to debate if you wish.

1- On a firefighters exam, people of color were allowed to redo the exam while some whites weren't. Acceptable scores were lowered for some of color. This is a racist practice. A persons color should not dictate opportunity, anyone want to argue that fact ?

2- 2 people of color where asked to leave a Starbucks for loitering, having sat down and not bought anything. If they were white, they'd have been escorted out and arrested if they made a stink. However, because they were asked to leave, some drew the racist card because of their color. Touched off national headlines and Starbucks was held accountable for upholding their own policy. Again, all our laws, company policies are not designed to apply only to certain races. Just because you are a person of color does not absolve you from obeying store rules, or laws. Want to dictate store policy, open your own store and do as you please, respect those you visit.

Now, I know someone can probably bring up some examples of oppression, BUT first ask yourself if these are examples of isolated incidents by some bigot somewhere, or a national trend. We will always have some example of bigotry, somewhere, because humans are not perfect beings. That doesn't mean we have a national crisis though. So if someone can point me to this national crisis of oppression, I'd sure appreciate it.

la2vegas wrote: »

Mikey081057 wrote: »

Why do good Priests/Clergy, Lawyers, Politicians, Doctors, Accountants, Charities never expose any of the criminals in their ranks?

Evil exists.

So the priests/clergy, lawyers, politicians and the rest of the bunch who look the other way and allow the abuse to continue are just as guilty. Even the so called good cops, they're guilty too.

Guilty of what? Don't they get due process or are you just going pronounce them guilty? If the court subpoenas them as witnesses then I guess they can be accused of witnessing a crime but I am not sure that is how the U.S. justice system works.... And When I say I am not sure that is because there is a lot of reason to doubt our justice system these days. Seems like it is a misdemeanor.

https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/failure-to-report-a-crime.html

Mikey081057 wrote: »

And 5,4,3,2, .......

What man ? Someone said "the discussion must not die", so I pulled a chair up to the table, being civil, and there's nobody on the other side. Can't say it was unexpected though.

I'll even back up the conversation to Nike's ad. "Just do it"....because Colin sacrificed so much and still did it ? What exactly did he sacrifice ? His career ? Didn't have much of one. Money ? I'm pretty sure Colin is making more from Nike than he would as a backup QB for some mediocre Football team.

Maybe....one should talk to the workers in one of Nike's sweatshops abroad about sacrifice. The child labor they use, long hours, little pay. Oppression ? Colin has no problem accepting money from a company that practices oppression for profits. Isn't that the grandest hypocrisy in all this anyway ?

zuul wrote: »

I'm a black man. And after reading this post here... I won't be coming back to club polk. Enjoyed myself here until today. It's obvious I'm not welcome here.

Hey @zuul of course you're welcome. Discourse is healthy, debate too. Everyone's opinion is appreciated.

I'm offended by those that are offended and since my feelings are more important my being offended matters more than you being offended. If that offended you, know that I don't care.

^^but do you have a job, asking for a friend.

Tony M wrote: »

I don't know what Nike' is thinking. I just don't know.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/colin-kaepernick-unveils-powerful-new-nike-ad/ar-BBMPzYU?ocid=spartanntp

Maybe they are thinking Kaepernick didn't do anything wrong...and maybe, just maybe there are a lot of other people who think he didn't do anything wrong either. This is a quote from the article you cited:

"Last season, as the debate over protesting was burning ever hotter, the NFL and players' union defended the right for those who wanted to protest peacefully."

Also,

Colin Kaepernick’s Collusion Case Against NFL Allowed to Move Forward:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/colin-kaepernicks-collusion-case-against-nfl-allowed-to-move-forward

So the ad says “even if it means sacrificing everything”

tonyb wrote: »

Mikey081057 wrote: »

And 5,4,3,2, .......

What man ? Someone said "the discussion must not die", so I pulled a chair up to the table, being civil, and there's nobody on the other side. Can't say it was unexpected though.

I'll even back up the conversation to Nike's ad. "Just do it"....because Colin sacrificed so much and still did it ? What exactly did he sacrifice ? His career ? Didn't have much of one. Money ? I'm pretty sure Colin is making more from Nike than he would as a backup QB for some mediocre Football team.

Maybe....one should talk to the workers in one of Nike's sweatshops abroad about sacrifice. The child labor they use, long hours, little pay. Oppression ? Colin has no problem accepting money from a company that practices oppression for profits. Isn't that the grandest hypocrisy in all this anyway ?

Now Tony you are being logical and honest which gets shunned in a conversation where if you don't yield to political correctness you are being a racist.

My prediction ? Nike will fire him when they realize that they have lost too many consumers by insulting them. (when the money tells them to)

jeremymarcinko wrote: »

So the ad says “even if it means sacrificing everything”

LOL lets see how much money Nike is willing to sacrifice. I am sure they will stop way short of everything when the accountants slap some sense into the marketing and corp execs who thought this was a good idea.

First it was Facebook who said "so what if we anger off half of America" and then Nike said
"Hey hold my wine cooler"

Intermission - Everyone to their safe zones if required. Here's something to ponder, a baby duck suckling on a momma cat!

So to compare Mr. Kapernick to anyone of our service members is outright wrong. United we Stand is the only way we continue to defeat our adversaries. We don’t need to agree on issues in our country, but at the end of the day we are one country who must who MUST stand for what the flag represents. To demonstrate otherwise WILL destroy us from the inside out and leave us weak and vulnerable to attacks. At that time all real sacrifice to this point will have been for what, to earn our freedom and independence so we can abuse it and leave our children and grandchildren to suffer. We can’t have this happen.
We have it good today. I don’t care who you are; YOU have it better than than generations before you. We can and will improve, we are not perfect, but we are UNITED by our flag and what it represents. Division is NOT the answer, we’ve been there and done that. Please let’s get off our knees and get to work, UNITED, for our children.

tonyb wrote: »

I'll start with a sticking point about Oppression that some seem to think is what Colin was originally protesting. If you can please point me to an example of this oppression I'd appreciate it, which should be easy since it's made out to be such a systemic problem in our society.

From where I sit in the cheap seats, and from my life experiences, I see none. In fact, I see more people of color given more than whites in some instances, more leeway. I'll bring up 2 examples for you to debate if you wish.

1- On a firefighters exam, people of color were allowed to redo the exam while some whites weren't. Acceptable scores were lowered for some of color. This is a racist practice. A persons color should not dictate opportunity, anyone want to argue that fact ?

2- 2 people of color where asked to leave a Starbucks for loitering, having sat down and not bought anything. If they were white, they'd have been escorted out and arrested if they made a stink. However, because they were asked to leave, some drew the racist card because of their color. Touched off national headlines and Starbucks was held accountable for upholding their own policy. Again, all our laws, company policies are not designed to apply only to certain races. Just because you are a person of color does not absolve you from obeying store rules, or laws. Want to dictate store policy, open your own store and do as you please, respect those you visit.

Now, I know someone can probably bring up some examples of oppression, BUT first ask yourself if these are examples of isolated incidents by some bigot somewhere, or a national trend. We will always have some example of bigotry, somewhere, because humans are not perfect beings. That doesn't mean we have a national crisis though. So if someone can point me to this national crisis of oppression, I'd sure appreciate it.

WOW Tony. I would think someone from other states would have that view. With you being from Chicago I'm shocked. Chicago's Black Belt or South Side is where many fled to from the South. Nevertheless, Chicago has a long deep rooted history of racism, segregation, housing segregation and redlining mated with policies that reinforced this. Then white flight created suburban development and favorable home loans for whites. Their schools got better and there property value much higher than the neighborhoods they left that they sold to blacks.

This is the same thing that happened around the Country and for sure did happen where I'm from in Detroit. There are all well know facts about the history of America.
After the riots, white flight, and the declining auto industry, Detroit didn't have a chance. Then, the mostly black city was policed by a predominantly white police force with a special task force called S.T.R.E.S.S. (Stop the Robberies, Enjoy Safe Streets). I don't even need to get into how that went in the late sixties and early seventeens. There are many stories about the STRESS and oppression that department ignited on the city. Blacks had targets on their heads! It was Mayor Coleman Young that broke up that group and created a police force that better represented the makeup of the city.



As far as Starbucks....the guys told the manager that they were waiting for someone and they will be buying something when he arrived. Even further, after the police arrived and the white friend arrived who stated that they were waiting for him, THEY STILL ARRESTED HIM! Combine this with others who were sitting in the restaurant on their computers, etc that stuck up for the guys saying that they did nothing wrong.... AGAIN......THEY STILL ARRESTED THEM.

The Manager later claimed that there were many problems of loitering and claims that one person even chased her around the shop after telling them to leave. So, here is the flip. Did she called the cops on others? Probably not as no one is talking about it. Why not give the guys the benefit of the doubt and let things play out. In her defense she did state that the City Center Phili location policies of enforcing no loitering did not help the cause. Even so, with all of that in place, the CEO did give the guys a face-to-face apology and stated that it was simply "inappropriate to call the police."

Some are quick to say blacks pull the race card too fast in regards to profiling. However, until you have been racially profiled you really just don't know. Just about every black person I know has been racially profiled at some point in their life. How screwed up is that? We are not making this up! Stop the racial profiling and I guarantee that blacks will finally "drop it."

I don’t want to bring my personal life into this; we all have our veterans we love and are so proud of. All of whom know without a doubt what sacrifice really means. Go see our service members get on the plane for deployment leaving their wife, children, and family behind; that’s sacrifice. Then god willing watch them get off that plane and embrace their families when they come home. Ask them what that flag means to them and thank them for having guts and grit to fight for us. Knowing that fight, that war, doesn’t end on the battlefield. It goes on, and for some it’s only just begun. Tell them about your sacrifice Colin, Nike.