New pressings of Vinyl vs used

joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 633
edited July 24 in 2 Channel Audio
As I am sure some of you are, as I am, increasing my stock of LP’s I enjoy going on date night with the wife and trying to combine it with record shopping after dinner. I have quite a few spots around me to acquire both new and used. More stores are carrying new records now. I see some that note “made from master tapes” but most do not say anything. Some even have the “digitally mastered” on them which must be a slip up, but maybe it’s just transparency. My question is how many of these new pressings are just larger plastic CD’s ? Meaning they were only mastered from the digital recordings.
Any of you familiar with any of the rereleases and know they are of high quality even though they may not state as such? The Barnes and Noble near me had a HUGE selection of new records. I have purchased some classical with good results. And a couple Yes albums, but still wonder if they are not really true to the art.
Thoughts?
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Comments

  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,142
    My friend bought a copy of Abbey Road on vinyl at Target (claimed to be “made from the digital recordings of the original master tapes) and he let me borrow to compare to my earlier pressing, which was made from the original tapes. The one from Target actually sounded the same (other than some minor differences, because it is of course a different mastering, but it was all very similar SQ wise). I don’t think it is the way that the music has been stored in the past, I think what matters is how it is being played back.
    That’s my guess anyway
    Micah
    Not Tom, or Trey, or Jim
    NAD C352
    Monitor Audio Radius R90’s/Mission Freedom 770 IV
    BJC speaker cables, generic RCA’s, one homemade power cable, because that’s going to do any good with the rest of the generic ones.
    Technics SL3200 turntable and a Shure M97xE phono cartridge
    Velodyne VA-907 subwoofer
    Lafayette LR-1100 acting as a tuner and phono.
    I've always thought the goal of high end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 633
    That’s a good point
    Have not done any A/B comparisons yet as I don’t want to duplicate inventory. But that good to know.
    I was just listening to a new one I picked up on Prime day- Nirvana Unplugged. It’s a new pressing by pallas on 180g our of Germany. It’s sounds really good. But there’s a chance I guess it could be from digital vs master tapes. Again, it sounds great so I should just enjoy. But I digress.
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 633
    Great info. Thank You.
  • NightfallNightfall Posts: 7,545
    Personally, I'm all about buying new sealed records. They haven't been mistreated, played on a Crosley, etc. Even if a used record looks to be in good shape the damage may be in the grooves. I guess a lot of record shops have turntables setup so you can listen to them first but man, that would take a lot of time. A trip to the record store would take all day.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,056
    Empirically, the incidence of noticeably warped new records is quite high, IME (and FWIW).
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 633
    I will say that some of the newer pressings have been done very well. With inserts, folding covers, artwork etc. and then some are very stripped. Obvious digital master, cover poorly printed. Etc.
    that company Pallas I mentioned earlier out of Germany is the best new pressing I have seen to date. Beautiful sound.
  • tratlifftratliff Posts: 651
    I am also into unopened LP's. I have purchased a few used, for myself, and have not been very happy with the results. Now, my wife has her own setup and purchases 90% used.

    I visit Barnes and Noble regularly. Have purchased well over 100 albums from them. They can be hit or miss. I don't think it is Barnes and Noble specifically. I think it is new albums in general. Some have good recordings and others do not.

    I have really slowed down on the number of LP's I purchase lately. I have moved from getting the newest releases to originals and Mobile Fidelity's/DCC/Quiex (both new and from the 70's/80's unopened). Even with my decrease in quantity my overall monthly LP cost has increased considerably. But, what I have learned is the majority of these originals and high quality pressings are worth the extra cost for me.

    Example.
    I have the latest pressing of Beatles Abbey Road and also the Mobile Fidelity from the late 70's. The latest went for $30 and the Mobile Fidelity went for $125. Sounds crazy but I promise you can tell the difference on my system. I think this is system dependent but higher quality systems beg for higher quality well taken care of clean media.

    Seems that its like everything else for our systems. The more things cost, the more all things cost.
    2 Channel
    Legacy Focus SE, McIntosh C50, McIntosh MC601's, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Parasound Halo JC3, Marantz SA-14s1, Oppo BDP-105, Technics RS-1500, Furman Elite 15PFi, Douglas Connection Alpha Interconnects, Douglas Connection Alpha Speaker Cables, Pangea Power Cables

    Theater
    Yamaha RX-Z9, Legacy Focus SE (same as 2 Channel system), Def Tech C/L/R 2500, Def Tech BP-2X, Def Tech Pro-Monitors, Vizio M-75

    Office
    Teac NP-H750, Parasound Ztuner, Audio Engine P4N, Grado SR80, Grado iGrado, Audio-Technica ATH-M50, PC running High Rez files

    Living Room
    Yamaha YSP-4100 digital sound projector, Sharp Aquos 60"

    Bed Room
    Yamaha YSP-5100 digital sound projector, Sharp Aquos 70"

  • dromundsdromunds Posts: 7,182
    If you aren't comfortable or skilled at grading then buy used from establishments or individuals whose grades can be trusted. There are quite a few record stores around that have qualified graders, individuals not so much, but there are still guys around like our own George Grand used to be (R.I.P.) who was pretty good and consistent at grading vinyl as well as the album covers. I wish George was still with us, I bought a ton of vinyl from him. I only buy used vinyl that grades out, I usually prefer the original pressings. I buy new also. And as ZUUL said above, sometimes the older imports have superior sound quality. Some labels also have superior sound quality consistently. Some artists also use better recording equipment/techniques than others.
  • skrolskrol Posts: 2,649
    I've primarily been buying used LP's or listening to my old collection. The only new LP that I have purchased in recent years is Sgt Pepper's on 180g. This isn't the anniversary but I think it is the same mastering. I am completely impressed. This recording really brings out the complexity of this album.

    I suspect that new vs old varies from album to album, version to version; just like CD's.
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i

    HT:
    Denon AVR-888, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW10, Marantz UD5005, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, TSi100; Pioneer: CT-6R, PL-530; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, Polk: RM7, Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 633
    Revisiting this after cleaning records, it is my opinion now that older pressings just seem to average higher quality than the newer ones. See post on Okki Nokki in 2 Channel setups.
  • To follow up with Micah, the Pink Floyd pressings that are new releases I have purchased through Amazon or B&N have been very high quality. Compared to the Pearl Jam, Prince, Depeche Mode one’s purchased through the same channels. Background noise and overall quality in the latter has no comparison. Not sure if they are made in the same factories, but night and day difference in background noise.
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,142
    I very much like my copy. I’m sure there are better copies out there... but aren’t there always better copies?
    I have a few records from Target, most notable ones being DSOTM, LED Zeppelin IV, and Beatles Let It Be. All are very nice, although Let It Be has a bit of background noise, otherwise also sounding nice. DSOTM is the best of any of them, probably ‘cause the others are digital masters.

    Also, someone mentioned in this thread that them saying the pressings are digital masters is either a mistake, or transparency, but here’s my argument.
    From an outsider’s point of view (I used to be one) digital sounds cool, and like a new spin (pun intended) on vinyl, that’ll most certainly make things that I (they) have no knowledge of. I mean, since the mid 90’s all the big formats have been digital, it must be superior, right?
    And, maybe people don’t know the difference.
    Not Tom, or Trey, or Jim
    NAD C352
    Monitor Audio Radius R90’s/Mission Freedom 770 IV
    BJC speaker cables, generic RCA’s, one homemade power cable, because that’s going to do any good with the rest of the generic ones.
    Technics SL3200 turntable and a Shure M97xE phono cartridge
    Velodyne VA-907 subwoofer
    Lafayette LR-1100 acting as a tuner and phono.
    I've always thought the goal of high end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • If it sounds good to you ( digital) then that’s what counts. Some music I own for audiophile purposes only. The music is ok, but the sounds are phenomenal. Other stuff I own is compressed and terrible in the way of recording quality, but I love it.
    I my op, music is and always should be more important than the chase but the chase is so much fun!
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,142
    I have heard some pretty awful recordings, and some pretty great ones. The trend is that better ones come from analog masters, while worse ones come from digital. What I said in my last post was from the point of view of a person with little knowledge of audio, where whatever sounds (as in the name, not how it actually sounds) cooler or more modern gets first pick.
    I probably will never buy an album for strictly audiophile high quality purposes. I’ll buy a decent pressing of an album that I love, or an epic pressing of an album I enjoy a little. When you get to an epic pressing of an album I love, I’m what my dad would call a happy camper. :)
    Unfortunately, amazing pressings that I can afford are few and far between, unless they are used. Which is fine by me, but I don’t like buying off the interwebz for records. You never know how the original owner packed it.
    Not Tom, or Trey, or Jim
    NAD C352
    Monitor Audio Radius R90’s/Mission Freedom 770 IV
    BJC speaker cables, generic RCA’s, one homemade power cable, because that’s going to do any good with the rest of the generic ones.
    Technics SL3200 turntable and a Shure M97xE phono cartridge
    Velodyne VA-907 subwoofer
    Lafayette LR-1100 acting as a tuner and phono.
    I've always thought the goal of high end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,386
    Vinyl from digital masters is no mistake.

    The Abbey Road from MoFi isn't very good. Plenty of used ones available for little money.

    It doesn't matter what store you buy new vinyl from, they don't make the records.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • Don’t be afraid to buy from reputable used vinyl dealers. There are folks out there who sell great used vinyl.
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,142
    joecoulson wrote: »
    Don’t be afraid to buy from reputable used vinyl dealers. There are folks out there who sell great used vinyl.

    My comment was aimed more at the one time sellers on eBay, not reputable sellers online.
    Not Tom, or Trey, or Jim
    NAD C352
    Monitor Audio Radius R90’s/Mission Freedom 770 IV
    BJC speaker cables, generic RCA’s, one homemade power cable, because that’s going to do any good with the rest of the generic ones.
    Technics SL3200 turntable and a Shure M97xE phono cartridge
    Velodyne VA-907 subwoofer
    Lafayette LR-1100 acting as a tuner and phono.
    I've always thought the goal of high end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • gp4jesusgp4jesus Posts: 1,173
    Can I assume “background noise” is “noisy”
    vinyl?

    I have quite a few, bought in the ‘80s, pressings from the likes of MFSL, Nautilus, Telarc, & some Japanese virgin vinyl. All are CD quiet until the magic, er, music emerges... That is unless it’s a analogue tape master and CRANKED!

    Enjoy!
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED
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  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,142
    Yeah, I think Let It Be is slightly warped. Every half a second it goes... how do I describe the sound? a "swoosh" sound. I never paid close attention, but I think it happens in a certain spot every time.
    I put it through the Spin-Clean a while back, but I'll do it again this weekend to see if it helps. Might as well do all my records while I'm at it.
    Micah
    Not Tom, or Trey, or Jim
    NAD C352
    Monitor Audio Radius R90’s/Mission Freedom 770 IV
    BJC speaker cables, generic RCA’s, one homemade power cable, because that’s going to do any good with the rest of the generic ones.
    Technics SL3200 turntable and a Shure M97xE phono cartridge
    Velodyne VA-907 subwoofer
    Lafayette LR-1100 acting as a tuner and phono.
    I've always thought the goal of high end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • gp4jesus wrote: »
    Can I assume “background noise” is “noisy”
    vinyl?

    I have quite a few, bought in the ‘80s, pressings from the likes of MFSL, Nautilus, Telarc, & some Japanese virgin vinyl. All are CD quiet until the magic, er, music emerges... That is unless it’s a analogue tape master and CRANKED!

    Enjoy!

    Yes. Thank You for clarifying
    Noise from analog tape recordings and noise from poor manufacturing of the pressing are two sep things. Typically the latter has a lower range of sound and almost sound like dirt in the groove.

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,056
    edited September 21
    It is amazing what a good and proper cleaning will do to many a 'trashed' record.
    Just wanted to mention that in the context of this thread. :)

    Of course, there will always be well & truly trashed records -- victims of severe mistracking or profoundly scratched/scraped/scuffed records.

    Sometimes even these can be rescued for playback by the judicious choice of stylus geometry and dimensions. Audiophiles typically sneer at (or snicker at) conical styli, they can can be very forgiving and yet still very musical -- even if not high-end.
    Listen to a Denon DL-103 sometime -- not the last word in anything, but utterly capable of transducing music and delivering it in a soul satisfying way.

    Conversely, the exotic stylus geometries can be picky as heck in terms of alignment and setup.

    Just felt the need to say that, too. Sorry. :)


  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 281
    Because of the resurgence there are some new reissues remastered which I feel sound better than the original. One good example I can think of is ABBA The Album, 1977. It uses a technique called half speed mastering (new to me). They are then pressed onto 180 gram 45rpm 12” records. When I first put on the opening track, I was immediately blown away. (BTW I picked up ABBA because I heard my parents playing it so I grew up enjoying the music.). The digital edition from Apple Music sounds so dull and compressed. This album very revealing and exciting I was certainly floored at what good vinyl mastering can bring out. If you can find a copy, I suggest you pick one up.

    I also believe there are also many bad ones out there being released just for the sake of having a vinyl version.
    Music-2.0 Raidho D-3.1 | Audio Research Ref 40 | Jeff Roland 925 | Esoteric Grandioso K1 | Transparent Reference, IC, Speaker and Power | HRS SXR Rack
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 281
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    It is amazing what a good and proper cleaning will do

    Completely agree, after I purchase new or used, I wash all records before they are played for the first time.
    Music-2.0 Raidho D-3.1 | Audio Research Ref 40 | Jeff Roland 925 | Esoteric Grandioso K1 | Transparent Reference, IC, Speaker and Power | HRS SXR Rack
  • What makes me have much more conviction in regards to some newer records being sub par is the recent acquisition of the record cleaner.
    You get to hear the difference between records (I even have some new and old pressings of the same)
    That’s when you can really tell. A/B testing is really only good when direct examples in a very short period of time can be made. Otherwise perception become more involved.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,386
    A/B testing is really only good when direct examples in a very short period of time can be made.

    False.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 633
    edited September 24

    Your sense memory must be better than mine
    Too much time between sampling and I forget the sounds
    Side by side and it’s plainly obvious to me
    Post edited by joecoulson on
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,386
    edited September 24
    ....
    Post edited by F1nut on
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,142
    F1nut wrote: »
    A/B testing is really only good when direct examples in a very short period of time can be made.

    False.

    Care to explain why?
    Joe, that is also what I've experienced.
    Not Tom, or Trey, or Jim
    NAD C352
    Monitor Audio Radius R90’s/Mission Freedom 770 IV
    BJC speaker cables, generic RCA’s, one homemade power cable, because that’s going to do any good with the rest of the generic ones.
    Technics SL3200 turntable and a Shure M97xE phono cartridge
    Velodyne VA-907 subwoofer
    Lafayette LR-1100 acting as a tuner and phono.
    I've always thought the goal of high end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 633
    edited September 24
    Thanks

    Post edited by joecoulson on
  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,142
    Even in all the tiny differences? I can only vaguely hear the difference between two sets of speakers if it is an hour or two apart, whereas right next to each other, it's night and day. They have to be REALLY different for me not to hear only a slight difference the next day, going off of memory from yesterday. The exception is inferior sound. better or worse is noticeable. Different, not so much.
    Not Tom, or Trey, or Jim
    NAD C352
    Monitor Audio Radius R90’s/Mission Freedom 770 IV
    BJC speaker cables, generic RCA’s, one homemade power cable, because that’s going to do any good with the rest of the generic ones.
    Technics SL3200 turntable and a Shure M97xE phono cartridge
    Velodyne VA-907 subwoofer
    Lafayette LR-1100 acting as a tuner and phono.
    I've always thought the goal of high end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
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