Upgrade hdmi cables or not

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Comments

  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,477
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    Ooohhh ok. I see now. So it just reduces the noise floor. Interesting.
    delkal wrote: »
    But the Dac only reads zeros and ones. This is processed and decoded, then a new analog signal makes it out. There is no trace of the original digital signal after processing. Why would you expect a small amount of noise picked up by a digital cable to come thru?

    This is what keeps bugging me about digital cables, it’s only 0s and 1s and I don’t think that that noise is gonna be either a 0 or a 1, at least it’s very unlikely methinks. Analog cables yes, it’s gonna reproduce everything but I still don’t totally understand.

    People didn't think fiber optic cables made a difference as long as light made it through. But it's now known that how the cable is made from the type of fiber used to the terminations all made a difference in the way the information gets there.
    The way the packets of ones and zeros are sent and received makes a difference.
  • rpf65
    rpf65 Posts: 2,127
    Not really hard to understand how a good quality HDMI cable can transmit data cleaner than a cheaply made one.

    First it isn’t just a single one or zero, but a string of them. Then think of the string as a staircase. When you have a perfect transmission, sound and picture is pristine.

    Like a staircase, a little noise acts the same as an uneven riser. Tests have shown a step that is 1/4 of an inch higher or lower will cause people to stumble.

    If noise is introduced into the transfer signal, it corrupts the data. No getting around noise in any type of recording. Just the act of filming or recording introduces noise. Every step after that introduces more noise, until you finally see/hear the end product.

    Quality HDMI cables tend to add less noise, be it from the connection, interaction between the bundle of cables, or general atmospheric rf signals.

    Better shielding, better conductors, and better termination are what you pay for. As always there is each individuals limit on price for performance. Then there is the source and display/speakers.

    A budget tv, using the onboard speakers will see negligible results from a higher end cable. The higher end TVs and we’ll constructed surround systems will show both visual and audible improvement.

    Not saying it will be night and day difference to every individual, but many, if not most people see or hear a difference.
  • Manticore
    Manticore Posts: 408
    I was using generic HDMI cables for a few years. I found most of them work. I was having hand shake issues between my BR & my Denon AVR and sometimes between my cable box and AVR. There were intermittent black outs and dropped audio.

    I thought it was the HDMI board in the AVR. This was also happening after i replaced the BR player with a 4K player. I decided to buy a few AQ forest cables and it has been a few months now with no drop outs of audio or video. After hooking up the new HDMI forest cables i feel the picture is brighter and sharper with what seems to be increased sound. I noticed this immediately upon installing the new cables.

    I am currently short two cables. One from the HTPC and one from the cable box to the AVR. I will be replacing both of them within a few days to AQ Forest cables. I also use a USB A to B - Cinnamon from AQ and like it very much. Like speaker, ic cables it does make a difference. It has for me!
    Denon AVR X4200W
    Parasound A23 amplifier
    Parasound A23 amplifier
    LG 65" Ultra HD4k
    LG 4kBR - UP970
    Denon DVM 4800
    Denon DP 3000 turntable
    Saec 308sx tonearm w/
    Dynavector 10x5 cart
    Vincent PHO 701 Phono Preamp
    MIT Avt3 Speaker c's
    Audio Quest Big Sur ic's
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Polk LSim 707
    Polk LSiM706c
    Polk RTiA 3's
    Polk 80F/X-RT
    Polk DSW PRO 440wi sub
    Infinity bu2 sub
    "The early Klingon gets the Gagh"
  • dolbyd
    dolbyd Posts: 430
    edited April 2018
    I settled on the Chocolate line of AQ for the HT. I had the Cinnamon and moved them to the MB. Both great cables.
    Main room- RTiA9 x4, CSiA6, in ceiling Atmos RT-70 x4, SVS PC 4000 x2, Marantz 8805A, OPPO 203, Emotiva DR3 G3, Emotiva XPA-2 G3, Emotiva XPA-5 G3, Emotiva X300, Sony 75" 940E, Panasonic Plasma VT50, PS Audio Power Port X2, PS Audio AC-5 x8, AQ Rocket 33 Biwire speaker cables, AQ King Cobra XLR IC, Furman PFi20 W/Cullen cable, SoildSteel S4-4 rack, Gik room treatments

    Office- Legend L600, in ceiling Polk RC80i, Marantz 7704, OPPO 203, Pioneer Elite PDF-59 CD, PSA Stellar 300, Sony 55" 800B, Gik room treatment

    Master BR- Signature ES60, Signature S35 Center, Signature S15 Dolby Height, LSI700 in ceiling, SVS-SB4000, Marantz 5012, Emotiva XPA5 G2, OPPO 203, Pioneer DVL-919 Laser Disc, Sony 55" OLED

    Patio- SDI Atrium8 x3, Emotiva A-100 amps x3
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,708
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,484
    Agreed Jesse. I have 2 MIT cables, one to the T.V. and one for the projector in the home theater (which is 25 ft.) and have never had a problem with either getting the signal from the source to the projector. I have only used the MIT cable in the theater, but have used 3 different cables on the T.V. and noticed an improvement with color saturation, black levels, and tint when using the MIT on the T.V.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....


    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,032
    I use Carbon , Cinamon and Chocolate in my system. For 4k Stuff high end Projectors , we have a Sony Laser 4k using a Cinnamon and all Cinnamon for all sources and compared to the Forest level cables is very minimum gain in clarity detail and sound.
    I have to agree with everyone above stating the Cinnamon is the sweetspot and very little to no gain after you go higher end then that especially considering the quality of your components and size of your display. We have a 138 inch 2:35 Cinascope Stweart Screen with the Sony Laser 4k Projector and even there I couldn't tell the difference between Cinnamon and Carbon, Chocolate. Very little gain over the Forest which is probably the best bang for your buck HDMI cable on the market. I think the Forest for those who don't care to spend a small fortune on HDMI cables is a excellent quality cable for TV's put o85 inches 4k display and up to the high end. I still suggest if your willing to spend a couple extra bucks go Cinnamon as they do have a slightly better picture. You will have a hard time noticing it and hearing better sound quality unless you have a higher end system and display.

    Digital as any signal transfer needs to be done correctly and to spec, after you reach the proper requirements little can be done if any to improve anything in the digital world. Analog is different as you can use cabling to tune your system with limitations in cable performance.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • Thanks everyone as usual who has contributed to answering some of my questions. I will be slowly upgrading my HDMI to cinnamon AQ hopefully starting in the next couple of weeks. Thanks everyone
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    Any opinions on what cables sound the best?
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    edited April 2018
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    . . . . .

    Go tell George that :/

    He's got machines that make the special cable symmetries. The parts are hand made and very expensive to replace
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    It was meant humorously -- but it wasn't humorous, so I blasted it prophylactically :|
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    It was meant humorously -- but it wasn't humorous, so I blasted it prophylactically :|

    I know, but thanks to the Rooster I was able to have dinner a couple times plus brews with Colleen Cardas who was the ops mgr at the time. Great info and history of Cardas
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • rpf65
    rpf65 Posts: 2,127
    afterburnt wrote: »
    Any opinions on what cables sound the best?

    Don't really think HDMI cables influence sound, so probably isn't a best cable out there. Better quality HDMI just enable better signal transfer and reduce noise interference.

    Depending on the quality of your individual display, it may increase picture clarity and color rendition. More times than not, handshake issues are from a bad or inferior HDMI cable. Cleaner data transmission will also make audio clearer and more dynamic.

    As far as influencing the sound signature of your HT system, other than lowering the noise floor, I don't think there is any coloration or lack there of.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,032
    afterburnt wrote: »
    Any opinions on what cables sound the best?
    I find the Audioquest HDMI cables to sound the best. Pick whatever level you can afford. My Vote is for the Cinnamon level as it's where I feel price meets performance in a way that can't be beat.

    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    rpf65 wrote: »
    afterburnt wrote: »
    Any opinions on what cables sound the best?

    Don't really think HDMI cables influence sound, so probably isn't a best cable out there. Better quality HDMI just enable better signal transfer and reduce noise interference.

    Depending on the quality of your individual display, it may increase picture clarity and color rendition. More times than not, handshake issues are from a bad or inferior HDMI cable. Cleaner data transmission will also make audio clearer and more dynamic.

    As far as influencing the sound signature of your HT system, other than lowering the noise floor, I don't think there is any coloration or lack there of.

    That's what I want is to lower the noise floor I don't care about the picture. No matter how clear the picture I still see two TV's.
  • rpf65
    rpf65 Posts: 2,127
    Seeing two objects, when only one is present, is normally a symptom of too many adult beverages.
  • firsttimer
    firsttimer Posts: 87
    So I finally installed the cinnamon HDMI cable from my blue ray to the display. There is a noticeable difference in colour, detail and I would say contrast. I have watched dead pool, ghost in the shell, and justice league with the new HDMI cable. Noticeable difference on all movies. Even had a friend over last night and he even noticed the difference. Now I just need to upgrade two more HDMI from 4K box to receiver and to display. I was using the mono price 4K rated cable prior to going to the cinnamon Audioquest HDMI.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,032
    Sweet man I really like the Cinnamon Cables. If I wasn't all outfitted in Carbon I would have absolutely no regrets going Cinnamon level cables. I find the Carbon not to make a big enough difference vs the amount of money you pay more. This is why I say the Cinnamon is such a great value vs performance vs all other HDMI cables.
    The Forest also performs well above it's asking price, nothing wrong with using them either. Well built very affordable and works flawlessly with Dolby Vision and HDR 4k stuff.
    I use a Cinnamon up to the TV and Carbon for everything else.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • firsttimer
    firsttimer Posts: 87
    Yes I am really impressed with this cable at this time. As said will be upgrading the final two when I can. Watching dead pool now in hdr And the picture is so clear and detailed compared to the other times I have watched it.
  • firsttimer
    firsttimer Posts: 87
    So my upgrade on cables is complete. I settled on cinnamon from 4K box to av receiver, cinnamon from av receiver to display. This has improved both audio and video from 4K box for regular cable tv viewing I was able to try a chocolate HDMI so I hooked it up to 4K blue ray player directly to display and must say I really like this cable. So I am going to run one chocolate from 4K player to display directly. So if anyone is wondering how these cables are I can tell you they work fantastic and I have been very impressed with both the cinnamon and chocolate cables. If your on the fence I say you cannot go wrong with either cinnamon or the chocolate AudioQuest HDMI cables. Well worth the upgrade from my Monoprice cables.
  • mrloren
    mrloren Posts: 2,454
    Can't go wrong with Audioquest cables. Might cost a bit but just can't go wrong.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.
    Family Room:LG QNED80 75", Onkyo RZ50 Emotiva XPA3 GEN3 Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM. Main: Polk LsiM 705Center: Polk LSiM 704CFront High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT Surrounds: Polk S15 Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    firsttimer wrote: »
    So my upgrade on cables is complete. I settled on cinnamon from 4K box to av receiver, cinnamon from av receiver to display. This has improved both audio and video from 4K box for regular cable tv viewing I was able to try a chocolate HDMI so I hooked it up to 4K blue ray player directly to display and must say I really like this cable. So I am going to run one chocolate from 4K player to display directly. So if anyone is wondering how these cables are I can tell you they work fantastic and I have been very impressed with both the cinnamon and chocolate cables. If your on the fence I say you cannot go wrong with either cinnamon or the chocolate AudioQuest HDMI cables. Well worth the upgrade from my Monoprice cables.


    Good for you, glad your enjoying them.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • dragon1952
    dragon1952 Posts: 4,894
    Anybody compared the Chocolate to the Mocha with the DBS system?
    2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Inakustik Reference USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones