Polk Audio LSiC Crossover Modification Thread

VR3VR3 Posts: 22,251
edited March 2013 in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
This should be fun!

Will be a Fortress "stack" modification but with remote mounted parts...

This will also feature a "STOCK" Recording and a "MODIFIED" recording! :)
- Not Tom

Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

"No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
Post edited by VR3 on

Comments

  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 15,933
    edited December 2012
    So trey is this recording thing going to become a standard thing? I think it is pretty cool and a great way to show what the mod does. Maybe post the waveform before, after and then overlaid so you can see what gets added?
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,251
    edited December 2012
    It will be "normal" for things that I actually have access to.. :)

    We will always try to do a direct comparison recording where we will take three particular pieces of a recording and play them back to back!
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,251
    edited December 2012
    My goal is to have an outlet to listen to hundreds of speakers by recording.. any brand, any model...

    By the middle of January I should have recordings for -

    Definitive Technology PM900
    Definitive Technology CLR1000
    Polk Audio RT55
    Polk Audio RTi10
    Polk Audio RTi8
    Rogers LS7
    Polk Audio LSi9 Stock and Modified
    Polk Audio LSiC Stock
    M Audio BX5D2

    By the end of the month I should have -

    Polk Audio SDA 1.2TL Stock
    Polk Audio LSiC Modified

    And in February or March

    Polk Audio SDA SRS 1.2TL Modified
    Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature Stock/Modified
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,251
    edited January 2013
    So I guess the real question is how much can you fit inside of a LSiC? a Vr3 Fortress is how much! :-P
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,251
    edited February 2013
    LSiC with the large inductor broken up into two inductors... made it a bit more challenging
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • Moose68BashMoose68Bash Posts: 3,541
    edited February 2013
    Nice work under challenging conditions.

    By the way, have you ever thought about consulting on organizing closets and basements? :smile:

    Well done, Trey!
    Family Room, PS Audio PW Transport, DirectStream DAC; AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux SM6 MKII Pre; AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux Prisma 750 Amps or CAT 600.2 Dualmono Amp, Morrow SP7 Speaker Cables, SDA SRS 1.2tls (RD0198s, Dreadnought, Black Hole 5, Acousta-Stuf, Dynamat Extreme, JBWeld. Vr3 Mods: "The Abbot" Monastery-Level Xovers, Custom Internal Wiring, Binding Post Plates, & SDA ICs).

    Exercise Room, Wadia 171 iPod Dock, PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC, AQ Sky XLRs, Perreaux SM6 Preamp, AQ King Cobra RCAs, Perreaux PMF3150 Amp, Dreadnought, Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables, SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers).

    Synology 713+ NAS on Gigabit LAN serving PW MkII DAC & DirectStream DAC.
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,251
    edited February 2013
    LOL! I think I could organize a mean closet! :)

    Thanks for the kind words!
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,251
    edited February 2013
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,251
    edited February 2013
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,251
    edited March 2013
    Think I finally got it down! :)
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • michael1947michael1947 Posts: 781
    edited March 2013
    nicely done.
    Main Family Room: Sony 46 LCD, Sony Blue Ray, Sony DVD/VCR combo,Onkyo TXNR 708, Parasound 5250,
    Polk SDS-SRS with mods, CSI 5 center + Klipsch SC2, Polk RT2000P rears, Klipsch KG 1.5's sides, Polk Micro Pro 1000, Polk Micro Pro 2000, Polk SW505, Belkin PF60, Signal Cable Classics,Monster IC's, 2 15 amp circuits & 1 20 amp circuit.

    Living Room: Belkin PF60, Parasound HCA2200, MIT ProlineEXP balanced IC's,Emotiva XDA-1 DAC/Pre,Emotiva ERC2 transport,MIT AVT2, Polk LSI 9's.
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,251
    edited March 2013
    Thank ya sir! :)
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • MC208MC208 Posts: 5
    edited March 2013
    I just modded the LSiC crossover but have noticed that the left driver is very very quiet, almost silent, while the right one is very loud. The driver I can hear (as well as the tweeter) sound very good, but I'm wondering if maybe I screwed something up. I never really payed close attention before to know if it has always been that way pre-mod or not. Perhaps the center is just not getting a lot of frequencies for that driver? it's crossed at 80hz. Has anyone noticed a driver level difference before/after mod? Thanks.

    Used Sonicap Gen1 for the high, Erse PulseX for the low. Mills resistors.
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 14,882
    edited March 2013
    The woofers do play different frequency ranges. Most (if not all) MTM center channels do this.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,251
    edited March 2013
    The left driver does almost all bass - standing in front of it you may even think it is doing nothing... :-P
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • MC208MC208 Posts: 5
    edited March 2013
    Thanks guys. Confidence restored; gonna tackle the LSi15s next weekend...
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,251
    t51akqbdpua4.jpg

    Fortress Plus build ---

    Tweeter Network -
    Clarity Cap CSA
    Mundorf Mox Resistors
    Jantzen Air Core
    16 Awg Internal Wiring + Gold Disconnects

    Midbass Network -
    Clarity Cap CSA
    Mundorf E Cap Bypassed by Clarity ESA
    Mundorf Mox Resistors
    Jantzen Permite Core Inductors
    16 Awg Internal Wiring

    Point to point, lexan substrate, aluminum terminal plate, insulated binding post
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,030
    edited March 2017
    VR3 wrote: »
    It will be "normal" for things that I actually have access to.. :)

    We will always try to do a direct comparison recording where we will take three particular pieces of a recording and play them back to back!

    Have to ask, I tried listening to your recordings just today, but each the Lsi9 and LsiC before and after tracks, and can not understand what is going on with the tracks.

    I tried them several times, but realized eventually the levels are not very close at all, and it appears that some EQ or something is used on one or the other, to the point where one sounds very bass heavy and boomy and the other does not.

    Are these issues with the recording, or level adjustments or something similar?

    Maybe if someone else can give them a try and make sure it is not me or something I am doing??
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4,SDA 3.1TL, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-
    Epos-
    Infinity-
    Advent-

  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 12,511
    Hello K_M and good afternoon to you sir. It has been some time since Trey (VR3) did these recordings. Some of the information available online and I'm sure some of the recordings have been compromised.

    Trust me when I say that a crossover upgrade is worth more than an amplifier purchase or dedicated 20 amp line install. You don't know me from Adam and while I can respect that, the empirical evidence shows that the "Kid" knows what he is doing.

    Perhaps Trey will address the recordings, maybe not. It has been a while, there could be nothing he could do to address the issues you are experiencing. I'd wait for him to chime in. He knows more than anybody about the recordings.

    Patience in the meantime would serve you well.

    I'll let Trey know about your inquiry.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • mikeyb128mikeyb128 Posts: 2,745
    I did this mod a long time ago. I think I payed around 500 bucks for the diy kit for my lsi15 and lsic. Man what a difference! Completely transformed those speakers from good to incredible.
    2 channel:
    Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
    Theater:
    Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.

  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,251
    So when we did the recordings, everything was done at the same distance/volume/song/etc.

    This is important to note in that I guess the recordings really show off the volume/bass differences between stock and modified.

    Amar Bose (RIP) once did a study about the loss realized when recording a recording. The recordings of the speakers sound the way they do due to what this study displayed. You will never be able to pick up the exact real life event with a microphone and there is considerable loss of quality/detail when recording an actual event and even more so when recording a recording. In fact, Mr Bose's study went to show that if you were to record the recording of the recording, it would eventually turn to static.

    All I am getting across to you is that the recordings we did back in 2013 were more so just to highlight there were differences between stock and modified speakers, not what those modifications actually sounded like. It was more so the prove a point you can hear a difference and nothing more.
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • ken brydsonken brydson Posts: 7,145
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Hello K_M and good afternoon to you sir. It has been some time since Trey (VR3) did these recordings. Some of the information available online and I'm sure some of the recordings have been compromised.

    Trust me when I say that a crossover upgrade is worth more than an amplifier purchase or dedicated 20 amp line install. You don't know me from Adam and while I can respect that, the empirical evidence shows that the "Kid" knows what he is doing.

    Perhaps Trey will address the recordings, maybe not. It has been a while, there could be nothing he could do to address the issues you are experiencing. I'd wait for him to chime in. He knows more than anybody about the recordings.

    Patience in the meantime would serve you well.

    I'll let Trey know about your inquiry.

    Tom

    "Sir " is a chick although the votes still out on that one...
    HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer SC-1222k AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One

    Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Denon 2910, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's/ RTA8t
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 12,511
    Oh Chit! My bad, I meant to say "Ma'am". I think. Am I being played with?

    Whatever gender you are, please accept my apologies or accept my post at face value. Whatever the case, no offense intended.

    Tom (I am a "Mr.")
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • K_MK_M Posts: 1,030
    edited March 2017
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Oh Chit! My bad, I meant to say "Ma'am". I think. Am I being played with?

    Whatever gender you are, please accept my apologies or accept my post at face value. Whatever the case, no offense intended.

    Tom (I am a "Mr.")

    No, it is fine, and Sir, was a woman, but unlike most solo male acts in here, we are a married team, and at times have both posted and usually both read the forum.

    Oddly, when we went back to the sound recordings, after having mentioned the issues, they changed sound wise quite a bit. Not sure what caused the issues or if they were something temporary.
    Either way, the gross differences were gone, and the levels seemed quite similar.

    Thanks again!
    Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4,SDA 3.1TL, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
    B+W-
    Epos-
    Infinity-
    Advent-

  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,251
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    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 281
    I just looked this up and after reading about LSiC’s for sale with mods. I think the poor stock crossover is why I never put my LSiC into production. It just sounded dead. And while I know the recordings don’t do the mod justice, I can hear a difference and it seems to make the LSiC more dynamic.

    Currently I’m running a Martin Logan 50xt as my center, it’s much larger compared to the LSiC and sounds much more lively, clear and transparent ( as in it just disappears in the dialog). Compared to the LSiC which sounded like muffled audio coming out of a box.

    Is this mod worth taking a shot? Wish I could audition one. I’m quite happy with the ML but can the moded LSiC compete.

    Can I also mod the LSi25? These are fine since they only reproduce ambient sounds for most HT viewing.
    Music-2.0 Raidho D-3.1 | Audio Research Ref 40 | Jeff Roland 925 | Esoteric Grandioso K1 | Transparent Reference, IC, Speaker and Power | HRS SXR Rack
  • Airplay355Airplay355 Posts: 4,250
    Muffled audio coming out of a box is exactly what I'm experiencing. I'm getting a weird upper bass peak that makes male voices sound nasally and muffled. Upping the crossover frequency to 150hz helped a little but not with clarity, just with the muffled sound.

    Try a different center or try upgrading the speaker XO?
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 22,251
    The LSi series is a completely different speaker modified. The stock parts leave much to be desired
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
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