Pre to Amp. XLR or RCA, Which is better?

Noob here to balanced inputs. Now that I have amps and pre with XLR connections I would like to know if I can expect any noticable improvement. I am currently using a good set of "Acoustic Research Pro series directional balanced line audio cables".

Thoughts?
Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)


There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus

Comments

  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,559
    edited April 2018
    Generally it depends on the way that the balanced connectors are integrated, and if it is a truly balanced design.
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,477
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    agreed, just because a piece has balanced connections, doesn't make it a completely balanced circuit.

    As always, try for yourself and find out, but...I might opt for some better cables than those AR's.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,420
    How am I supposed to know if it is"truly balanced" then? Tony, if you think the cables I have need upgraded, where should I start? What's a good compromise between budget (say $100) and quality?

    Thanks all!
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,559
    Try out some inexpensive XLR cables from Monoprice and see what you think of the sound of the balanced connection. Probably the cheapest way to proceed.

    https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4754
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,420
    Ok. Ordered some from Monoprice. I also have another set of RCA' s I found. No name on them but they look like good quality and appear shielded. I'll give them a try too
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,559
    Cool. Interested to hear your thoughts. I use those XLR cables to hook up my powered monitors! :)
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Ok. Ordered some from Monoprice. I also have another set of RCA' s I found. No name on them but they look like good quality and appear shielded. I'll give them a try too

  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,420
    So I hooked up the name cables and either it's the placebo effect or the high frequencies have just been turned up a notch! Can't wait to see what new XLR's will do!
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,477
    So you go from AR to Monoprice seems a sideways move to me. I wouldn't buy monoprice anything. We use them at work and the failure rate is very high.
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    I dont think he went sideways, I think he got some Monoprice XLR's. If that is in fact sideways I'll be a onkeys muncle
  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,384
    Also Audio Advisor's has some Pangea's they just started selling

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGIXCA
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,739
    edited April 2018
    audioluvr wrote: »
    I am currently using a good set of "Acoustic Research Pro series directional balanced line audio cables".

    Thoughts?

    I used those once, until they removed an outer shield of one of my board mounted RCA terminals.

    If those have a tight grip also I would use them carefully.
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,477
    edited April 2018
    gmcman wrote: »
    audioluvr wrote: »
    I am currently using a good set of "Acoustic Research Pro series directional balanced line audio cables".

    Thoughts?

    I used those once, until they removed an outer shield of one of my board mounted RCA terminals.

    If those have a tight grip also I would use them carefully.

    That is not a problem with XLR. They lock in and use a ground pin unlike RCA
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,420
    gmcman wrote: »
    audioluvr wrote: »
    I am currently using a good set of "Acoustic Research Pro series directional balanced line audio cables".

    Thoughts?

    I used those once, until they removed an outer shield of one of my board mounted RCA terminals.

    If those have a tight grip also I would use them carefully.

    Yes they are quite tight. I twist them as I take them on and off
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
  • DaveHo
    DaveHo Posts: 3,471
    I use these between my Oppo 205 & Parasound P5. They are nice & won't break the bank.

    cullencable.com/copper-series-xlr/
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,559
    Nice suggestion and possible upgrade path if he likes the sound of the XLR connection with the Monoprice wires.
    DaveHo wrote: »
    I use these between my Oppo 205 & Parasound P5. They are nice & won't break the bank.

    cullencable.com/copper-series-xlr/

  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,420
    DaveHo wrote: »
    I use these between my Oppo 205 & Parasound P5. They are nice & won't break the bank.

    cullencable.com/copper-series-xlr/

    Thanks Dave! That's perfect! Just under budget too!
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
    edited April 2018
    tonyb wrote: »
    agreed, just because [your equipment] has balanced connections, doesn't make it a completely balanced circuit.
    this refers to your gear, not the cables
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
    edited April 2018
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    We use them at work and the failure rate is very high.
    is “them” XLR cables?

    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,477
    edited April 2018
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    We use them at work and the failure rate is very high.
    is “them” XLR cables?

    Monoprice interconnects in general. HDMI, RCA but no XLR stuff.

    gp4jesus wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    agreed, just because [your equipment] has balanced connections, doesn't make it a completely balanced circuit.
    this refers to your gear, not the cables

    Yes not all gear with balanced inputs/outputs is a balanced topology inside.
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,559
    How'd it go with the Monoprice XLRs?
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Ok. Ordered some from Monoprice. I also have another set of RCA' s I found. No name on them but they look like good quality and appear shielded. I'll give them a try too

  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,420
    I could not tell the difference between the XLR's and the RCA's I have. Could just be my poor old ears have finally hit their sonic limit.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,559
    Perhaps. Or it's possible that the way the XLR connectors are implemented on the B&K amps aren't dramatically different/better than the RCAs.

    Another possibility is that the Monoprice cables are "not good". But you didn't mention that they detracted or took anything away from the sound.
    audioluvr wrote: »
    I could not tell the difference between the XLR's and the RCA's I have. Could just be my poor old ears have finally hit their sonic limit.

  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,042
    On my gear I have a choice of either xlr and rca connections. The specs show there's 4db better s/n using the xlr's. With that and a more solid connection with the xlr's I use balanced where ever I can.
    Does it make a difference in the sound? Nothing startling that jumps out at me. The biggest change I've noticed is a quieter background. It seems like a no-brainer to me to use the xlr's and I'll gladly take that 4db difference for just a simple cable swap.
  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,739
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    gmcman wrote: »
    audioluvr wrote: »
    I am currently using a good set of "Acoustic Research Pro series directional balanced line audio cables".

    Thoughts?

    I used those once, until they removed an outer shield of one of my board mounted RCA terminals.

    If those have a tight grip also I would use them carefully.

    That is not a problem with XLR. They lock in and use a ground pin unlike RCA

    Correct, I mis-read his post and was referring to the un-balanced AR RCA's which had a death grip on the ones I used once before.
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,521
    I have been very happy with how my Signal Cable analog 2 XLR's compared to my former Hero WBT RCA's. SC's = $59, Hero's = $329! I run them from my Benchmark DAC2 to my Parasound A21 amp.

    icw7zwiw4s0a.jpg


    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • helipilotdoug
    helipilotdoug Posts: 1,229
    If you are looking for a great bang for the buck balanced interconnect cables, please take a look at our Bravo XLR IC's with Vampire Wire XLRF and XLRM connectors. At $139 for a 3 ft. pair, I'll just about put them up against anything else out there. Of course Polkies get a 10% discount too :)
    Sunfire Theater Grand IV
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature
    SRS 2.1TL
    SDA 2BTL's
    CSiA6
    FXiA4
    FXiA6
    SDA 2A's
    Monitor 10A's

    http://www.douglasconnection.com
  • rburgess714
    rburgess714 Posts: 614
    If you are looking for a great bang for the buck balanced interconnect cables, please take a look at our Bravo XLR IC's with Vampire Wire XLRF and XLRM connectors. At $139 for a 3 ft. pair, I'll just about put them up against anything else out there. Of course Polkies get a 10% discount too :)

    Hey Doug - I received mine today and they look great and sound even better.
    Living Room
    Parasound HINT 6, Yamaha Aventage RX-A 1060, Yamaha BD-S681, Cambridge Audio Azur 851N, Polk S60, Polk S30, Samsung 60" LED

    Office
    Cambridge Audio 851A, Auralic Aries Mini, LSiM 703s

    Douglas Connection ICs and Cables
  • helipilotdoug
    helipilotdoug Posts: 1,229
    If you are looking for a great bang for the buck balanced interconnect cables, please take a look at our Bravo XLR IC's with Vampire Wire XLRF and XLRM connectors. At $139 for a 3 ft. pair, I'll just about put them up against anything else out there. Of course Polkies get a 10% discount too :)

    Hey Doug - I received mine today and they look great and sound even better.
    Thanks Ray. Glad to hear they arrived and you are a happy camper. :)
    Sunfire Theater Grand IV
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature
    SRS 2.1TL
    SDA 2BTL's
    CSiA6
    FXiA4
    FXiA6
    SDA 2A's
    Monitor 10A's

    http://www.douglasconnection.com