Need some advice...

For the first time in this hobby, I got scammed pretty hard. I sold my Krell 525a CD player a month ago, on February 18th, shipping it a distance of less than 100 miles. It arrived one day after it shipped, and was signed for. The buyer opened a claim with PayPal on March 5th, claiming it was damaged and not as described. The buyer never made contact with me to resolve this, and the buyer has not returned the player to me, or otherwise reached out in any way. PayPal gave him his money back.

The player was shipped in its original Krell packaging, which is some of the best I have ever seen, so unless the box was under a Falcon9 Heavy when they lit that candle, there is no way it was damaged.

I have disputed everything with PayPal, but they still are demanding I pay them more than 2500 bucks.... any advise?
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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Comments

  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,739
    Not sure of the exact rules, but doesn't he need to ship it back first?
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,033
    That’s what they told me... they said he needed a shipping document, but I have nothing, and they could not provide a tracker for me.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,861
    No item, no money.
  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,739
    Did you call PayPal or did they call you?

    I don't think PayPal can do anything until you receive the item.

  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    FestYboy wrote: »
    No item, no money.

    That's what I say. Tell paypal to get the item shipped back to you and then you'll give them the money.

    This is why I don't use paypal anymore. Most the protections are for the buyer, little for the seller.

    John, I have to assume it was insured. Why not make that claim, or have the buyer make that claim.

    Even if you get the Krell back, and you refund the dudes money, you'll still have a damaged player on your hands.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,033
    Their collection department called me. They said they tried to contact me, and the seller cc’d them on the email because I failed to respond, they issued the refund. Thing is, I never got any such emails from anyone.... but my wife did, and she has no PayPal account, or access to my email!

    She just told me about it in a matter of fact way, and said she forgot to tell me!!!


    GRRRRRRR!!!!

    I reached out to the buyer and explained the mess up, so let’s see what happens. Per PayPal, he doesn’t need to do a damn thing. Because of the failure to reply, he gets his money and the Krell for free.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,739
    Their collection department called me.

    No sir. You call them.

    That way you know it's legit.
  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,739
    edited March 2018
    I wouldn't even wait if that was the case. You have his address, call the local popo and see if they can stop by and ask if he has the Krell. For that amount of money it would be a felony.

    This whole thing stinks and sounds like a scam.
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,033
    edited March 2018
    gmcman wrote: »
    Their collection department called me.

    No sir. You call them.

    That way you know it's legit.

    I did call them, but they called me first. I also saw the it to my pp account when I logged in. After this is done, I am ending all affiliation with them.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,952
    Sorry John, this sucks. I think calling the local police is a good suggestion. I had some tools stolen out of my garage, but since i didn't have the Serial numbers they couldn't really do anything (this was just a few hundred bucks). In this case, you have pics, receipts, etc. I am sure. Worth a shot at least...
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
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  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,861
    How can they claim "no response" when THEY sent to the wrong email? I call BS.
  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,739
    edited March 2018
    I would already be on the phone with the police. This doesn't sound remotely legit....they don't get your cd player and the money.
  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,739
    edited March 2018
    Did you call them back on the number that called you?

    Better yet, I'd be half way there by now filling out paperwork with the local magistrate, should be a 24 hr operation...most are.
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,033
    Already contacted the police in his vicinity, and was told it was a civil matter, and I could contact LAPD, since the crime originated in their jurisdiction, but that too is a useless endeavor.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,739
    Drive down and file with magistrate.....call first but that way paperwork is started.
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,033
    gmcman wrote: »
    Did you call them back on the number that called you?

    Better yet, I'd be half way there by now filling out paperwork with the local magistrate, should be a 24 hr operation...most are.

    I contacted PayPal on three different lines and through my account homepage.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,179
    I think everyone needs to level out here. Somehow that email must have been associated with your paypal account, that would be the only way the buyer got a hold of it.

    What the guy is doing isn't illegal, just incredibly unethical (or it just happened to break, wouldn't be the first time). Now that contact has been made, hopefully getting it shipped back can be arranged. Unfortunately Paypal's protection system favors buyers heavily and sooner or later, you are bound to be taken advantage of.
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,033
    edited March 2018
    He has no intention of giving it back. He claims he took it to get fixed and it is now his.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,739
    Call PayPal and file for an appeal. According to them, that's the correct course of action.
  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,861
    He has no intention of giving it back. He claims he took it to get fixed and it is now his.

    That throws a huge red flag...
  • stangman67
    stangman67 Posts: 2,179
    That tidbit of information certainly changes things
    2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave

    2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius
  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,739
    I wouldn't waste any time following up on this.
  • NotaSuv
    NotaSuv Posts: 3,811
    Have ya done a recon cruise by of the shipping address.....
  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,033
    gmcman wrote: »
    I would leave a message with seller stating that either the player or the funds need to be on their way back tomorrow or you will file on felony fraud.
    That’s next^^^
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,739
    If you're lucky you will get a cooperative police force like this....... :)




    https://youtu.be/MrTsuvykUZk
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    Your going to have to take it court, like mentioned above, it's a civil matter
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Sorry to hear that @nooshinjohn. Couple of thoughts

    1. If the notification email was sent to the wrong address that can be explained and easily demonstrated. Provide copies of the email to Paypal as proof.
    2. Normally the seller has to provide a tracking number to prove the item was indeed shipped back. The tracking number should have been provided to PayPal.
    3. Phone calls are the best way to communicate with PayPal at this point. Emails are too slow and open for interpretation.
    4. If you do take legal action, it must be filed in the buyer's jurisdiction. Small claims court is most expeditious, but there is a maximum limit for your claim. No lawyers needed, the defendant in this case would have to provide proof that the item was shipped back. PITA, as you have to make 2 trips, one for the filing, and the other for the hearing.

    Best of luck to you sir!
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
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