Sansui AU-222 re-cap completed

ALL212ALL212 Posts: 743
edited February 10 in DIY, Mods & Tweaks
I've had this little guy on my bench for maybe 5 years and just never got around to it. Channel balance was way off. Found someone had already been into it and just didn't finish. Main board got a full compliment of Nichicon caps and now it's back to evenly balanced.

deas4mnjf7hm.jpg

The bad boys - one of the 1uf caps measured short. The rest measure about 50% high.
8b3mckgyu6rl.jpg

Hmmm... I lied. Looks like earlier I put some Black Gates in there.
0q4m8c048gdx.jpg


Aaron

Comments

  • la2vegasla2vegas Posts: 2,388
    Nice work Aaron. Do you have any gear that you didn't put your own special touch on? Seriously I have a AU-517 that needs your magic touch. o:)
    2.3TL, 3.1TL, SDA 2B, SDA II, 7B, 7C, 7 series 2, 10B, 5JR+, 5JR, 5A, 4.5, 4, RTA 11T X2 pairs, RTA 8T, LSI9, LSI7, RTI A7, RTI A3, CSI A4, CSI A6, F/XI A4, RTI4. That's all for now.
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 6,728
    ALL212 wrote: »

    The bad boys - one of the 1uf caps measured short.


    Well, duh, some of them caps are shorter than others.... :D

    Nice work! Now that you got some bench space, maybe I can move some of my projects to it?

    What's the looks like burnt area C002 or is it an optical thing?
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 9,661
    Nice job Aaron
    Rich for some reason i feel there was a bigger multi legged cap there.
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 6,728
    I was hoping he quit using that little butane torch to solder stuff.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • corticocortico Posts: 397
    Looks great! What do you think about the black gates?
    "If it measures good and sounds bad, -- it is bad. If it sounds good and measures bad, -- you've measured the wrong thing." Daniel Von Recklinghausen
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 17,353
    slummin'!

    ;)
    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
  • ALL212ALL212 Posts: 743
    edited February 11
    C002
    Sound effect needed - BWAAAAAAAAA
    d8uas8ut0hmz.jpg

    Really not sure (unless it was just a standard) that a 4 legged cap was needed. Two legs for mounting (NC). That damn thing almost got the propane torch to remove it. It measures beyond my meters top setting of 2000uf so it's way off also.

    cortico wrote: »
    Looks great! What do you think about the black gates?
    Black gates - since I usually film cap the universe (and made no attempt here) I'm sure they are fine but I have nothing to compare them to. The rest of the caps are Nichicon Muse, Fine Gold or the Audio KA's. Total cost was probably under $25.

    la2vegas wrote: »
    Nice work Aaron. Do you have any gear that you didn't put your own special touch on? Seriously I have a AU-517 that needs your magic touch. o:)

    Working on other folks' stuff...I have a standard warranty. "When the solder is solid the warranty is over". I don't mind frying my stuff but doing something stupid on someone else's stuff isn't my favorite situation and with these old amps a lot can go wrong. I'm really not a pro at this recap stuff. I suspect yours should be easier as it probably doesn't have much point-to-point wiring and uses connectors between boards and they can be removed without issue. If you're serious let me know.



    Aaron
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 28,935
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    I was hoping he quit using that little butane torch to solder stuff.

    C'mon Rich, you know he uses that torch to roast the marshmallows in his Hot Chocolate anyway. :)
    HT SYSTEM-
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  • corticocortico Posts: 397
    Black gates are great, send them my way if you opt to remove them :)
    "If it measures good and sounds bad, -- it is bad. If it sounds good and measures bad, -- you've measured the wrong thing." Daniel Von Recklinghausen
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 9,661
    cortico wrote: »
    Black gates are great, send them my way if you opt to remove them :)

    While i do not dispute the fact that Black Gates are great caps I often wonder since they have not been made in about a decade or more are we running up against age related problems?
  • ALL212ALL212 Posts: 743
    When you replace 50 year old caps with 10 year old caps I'm not running up against any issues. Especially since they have been completely unused until now.

    Unless you mean my age...in which case there are many issues :wink: .
    Aaron
  • corticocortico Posts: 397
    edited February 11
    If they test well... no reason to fear. Those black gate caps aren't original to this Sansui, I believe they are out of production since 2006 but relatively recent.
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    cortico wrote: »
    Black gates are great, send them my way if you opt to remove them :)

    While i do not dispute the fact that Black Gates are great caps I often wonder since they have not been made in about a decade or more are we running up against age related problems?
    "If it measures good and sounds bad, -- it is bad. If it sounds good and measures bad, -- you've measured the wrong thing." Daniel Von Recklinghausen
  • corticocortico Posts: 397
    further to my post, I read the article below. It's funny my DAC as a load of them and the guy that sold it said, "never turn it off" :
    There is a specific nature of the Black Gate capacitors, that some people seem to overlook. If you are not familiar with BGs then you may experience a disappointment after you switch on a DAC with BG caps inside. The sound will be the opposite of what is described.

    The music will sound as if the treble has been removed, with sluggish dynamics and muddy bass. However, we can assure you that is a temporary phenomenon associated with unused BG capacitors. Basically, unlike all other caps available, the BG caps have graphite particles impregnated paper separator (dielectric) inside them. It takes a couple of days these graphite particles to form the conductive tunnels. The process is very similar to rechargeable batteries. Once the batteries (graphite tunnels are formed) are charged, the BG capacitors continue to improve approximating their best. The sound will open up and the bass becomes clearly defined with plenty of dynamics yet very smooth at the same time.

    Depending on the BG type, capacity and application, the initial stage of continuous BG running in time is about a week. The sound will continue to improve as long as the equipment is kept switched on. However, unfortunately just like with batteries, the process building up the charge is also reversible. If the rechargeable batteries remain unused for a prolonged period of time, they tend to lose the charge. So if you go on holidays for a week, you more or less would have to start from the beginning. That is unfortunately the only drawback that one has to live with.

    The upside is that the sound incomparably better than with any other capacitors we tried and we tried almost them all, vintage inclusive. Having mentioned the specific aspect of BG capacitors, please do not rush with the judgment before one week passes with your DAC being continuously being switched on. Leaving the DAC on permanently not only runs your BG capacitors in and ensures ever improving sound but also reveals the true potential of those capacitors.

    http://sw1xad.co.uk/technology_post/black-gate-capacitors/
    "If it measures good and sounds bad, -- it is bad. If it sounds good and measures bad, -- you've measured the wrong thing." Daniel Von Recklinghausen
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 6,728
    tonyb wrote: »

    C'mon Rich, you know he uses that torch to roast the marshmallows in his Hot Chocolate anyway. :)

    And he won't share what brand of butane he uses..... :D
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 6,728
    ALL212 wrote: »
    C002
    Sound effect needed - BWAAAAAAAAA
    d8uas8ut0hmz.jpg


    This Elna 123Black Ball cap pre-dated Black-Gate caps.
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 6,728
    Oh, for your next project, use my

    7vc0c72enzw7.jpg
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 6,728
    edited February 11
    ALL212 wrote: »
    .....Two legs for mounting (NC). That damn thing almost got the propane torch to remove it.

    After I borrowed Jay's Hakko 808 to recap the Krell KSL pre amp (that he now owns) I went out and bought me a Hakko FR-300. The KSL was like 42 caps on a fiberglass board.

    kepol3tt3jtu.jpg

    About 15 years out you can help me with this one...if we can see and hold stuff anymore...lol Krell recapped this one a few years ago.

    shk2xxa7ffyc.jpg

    After buying it, I moved the two resistors in the soft start board so they don't cook the caps they were near...

    i6ohsmpak425.jpg

    This was the result if you left them resistors in the OEM location - on the component side of the board. Not mine, from another fellows amp.

    6vbc7i9dw948.jpg


    Post edited by SCompRacer on
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 9,661
    ALL212 wrote: »
    When you replace 50 year old caps with 10 year old caps I'm not running up against any issues. Especially since they have been completely unused until now.

    Unless you mean my age...in which case there are many issues :wink: .
    cortico wrote: »
    If they test well... no reason to fear. Those black gate caps aren't original to this Sansui, I believe they are out of production since 2006 but relatively recent.
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    cortico wrote: »
    Black gates are great, send them my way if you opt to remove them :)

    While i do not dispute the fact that Black Gates are great caps I often wonder since they have not been made in about a decade or more are we running up against age related problems?

    I do know they are unused. I guess my worry was how they have been stored and whether or not they could have had dielectric dry out from not being used and or inferior storage.
    Good to know guys.
  • ALL212ALL212 Posts: 743
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    After I borrowed Jay's Hakko 808 to recap the Krell KSL pre amp (that he now owns) I went out and bought me a Hakko FR-300. The KSL was like 42 caps on a fiberglass board.

    Oh...sure - look who's got the cool stuff! ;)
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    About 15 years out you can help me with this one...if we can see and hold stuff anymore...lol Krell recapped this one a few years ago.

    You're assuming I can hold this stuff still now! Beers don't even help much... :'(
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    After buying it, I moved the two resistors in the soft start board so they don't cook the caps they were near....

    Dat's HOT! I like it HOT! Just not that hot... :#

    Aaron
  • ALL212ALL212 Posts: 743
    Took the little guy into the office to try on this setup. Absolutely nothing fancy. Old PC running media monkey straight out the audio output to inputs on the amp, no dac...no nuttin'. Boston Acoustic A40 Frankensteins (nothing original) for speakers. The AU3900 was sounding pretty brittle.

    HORRY CRAP BRATMAN!!! Loudness on, bass up just a few notches, tweeter up just a hair.

    B)
    Aaron
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 17,353
    ALL212 wrote: »
    Took the little guy into the office to try on this setup... Loudness on, bass up just a few notches, tweeter up just a hair.

    B)
    I am shocked. Shocked.




    :)

    "It's like watching a roomful of people who couldn't get through college algebra discussing the flaws of quantum physics theory. I guess it could be fun, but it's ultimately a waste of time." -- seen on audiokarma

    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

    "Writing about hifi is like dancing about architecture" -- paraphrasing some wag (possibly Frank Zappa)
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