crossover upgrades, 11T

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Comments

  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited April 2012
    nope, the sliders are on the rim, and the rim has inset screws exposed, so it will be easy to remove. i just wanted to make sure. they are pretty beat up anyways, and neither speak would sit level if i left them on. i doubt i will do the outriggers, though that looks pretty cool....
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited April 2012
    ok... we kind of screwed up a little...in agfrost's original post, you mentioned a 1.5 Ohm resistor value, and even though i looked at the schematic a million times and knew it was a 2 Ohm... i ordered 1.5's... my question is what will it do, sonically, and is it harmful?


    it looks like the best i can do locally is an NTE 2.0 Ohm 10 W wirewound.... most likely not as good as the Mills? man, i really wanted to get these done this weekend....:sad:
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited April 2012
    new.jpg
    so far.... waiting on the 2.0 Mills and some sound dampener for the baskets....now it will be wednesday.
    new.jpg 229.7K
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • agfrostagfrost Posts: 2,173
    edited April 2012
    Looks clean. You should be able to listen to 'em, but they won't be "right" until you get the 2.0 ohm resistors. Sorry if I poisoned your thought process while you were ordering, I imagine I was waxing poetic about my 11TLs?

    Had a chance to test-fit that into the crossover opening on the back of your speakers? I can't tell how much overhang there is with the larger caps.

    Looks like you've had a productive Saturday, anyway. Good work.

    Edit: Ah heck, I did say 1.5 ohm in that first post. Fixed it later, but still planted the seed. Sorry. :redface:
    Jay
    SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Marantz DV-9500 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8
    Micro Seiki DQ-50 * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
    Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited April 2012
    agfrost wrote: »
    Looks clean. You should be able to listen to 'em, but they won't be "right" until you get the 2.0 ohm resistors. Sorry if I poisoned your thought process while you were ordering, I imagine I was waxing poetic about my 11TLs?

    Had a chance to test-fit that into the crossover opening on the back of your speakers? I can't tell how much overhang there is with the larger caps.

    Looks like you've had a productive Saturday, anyway. Good work.

    Edit: Ah heck, I did say 1.5 ohm in that first post. Fixed it later, but still planted the seed. Sorry. :redface:
    no no no.... no worries! like i said, i looked at that schematic many times and we even talked about it comparing to the 11t....i should have been more thorough.
    never the less, it is just time.... they are on the way, be here Wednesday with the dampening.so that is actually good because i will need to take the drivers out to rewire with the new crossovers and i can kill two birds.

    and yup, they will fit fine. the pic is deceiving because of the small board.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited April 2012
    ok, i have all of my ducks in a row now... complete tear down and upgrade weekend coming up... i have nothing else on the calendar for once. crossovers, spikes, mortite, dampening, buy new amp....

    quick questions... the dynamat i have seen applied different ways... i should put strips on each basket support and on the back of the magnet? even the tweeter? (which i would leave off because RDO-194's will be next)

    and i assume the mortite just goes on the back of the mounting rings where the screws are on the driver?

    and the mortite on the back of the
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited April 2012
    left channel is all wrapped up today. all went well except sneezing and slipping with a screwdriver while remounting a PR and putting the blade through the surround.:sad: its a good thing i have extras.

    so crossovers recapped & resistors, added Parts Express' sound dampening to the baskets, and rope caulked to seal the drivers. and also spiked the speakers with Dayton spikes. and i had previously redone the grill cloth.

    i have not had a bunch of time for comparison listening today, but some. our house is busy-ish.

    my initial impressions are....

    WOW! it is amazing the difference between the 2 speakers. new one has definition, a certain smoothness but brighter at the same time. the bass is tight, defined, and not boomy. the un-done speaker now sounds like mud. it does, however, sound like it has a deeper bass. but, i suspect this "sensation" will go away once i have both finished and they are equal? i think it is the mud i am still hearing. i am also quite sure the polyswitches were very degraded in the old crossovers.

    vocals are more natural, and Yo-Yo Ma doesn't sound like fingernails on a chalkboard. I really had no idea how badly these speakers had degraded.

    i need better source material... Itunes files suck.

    i need RDO-194s.

    and i DEFINITELY need out of the 50W amp range. and better cordage.

    like somebody said earlier in the thread... i came here asking a question about a $25 Xover kit....

    tomorrow morning phase two.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • agfrostagfrost Posts: 2,173
    edited April 2012
    Coolness. Realize that it's not all due to "degradation;" you've added components to your crossover that are finer than the ones replaced were on the day they left the factory. The crossovers will vary in sonic quality as they break in over the next couple hundred hours of use--They may sound divine one day, intolerable the next. If you can leave your speakers playing over night and/or while you're at work, you'll get through this phase pretty quickly.

    Enjoy!

    Jay
    Jay
    SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Marantz DV-9500 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8
    Micro Seiki DQ-50 * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
    Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited April 2012
    i have both read that here and the tech at Soniccraft gave me fair warning as well about burn-in...

    i got the other done today and am having a little session while my wife is out car shopping with her sister. i understand there is "shiny new" phenomenon here, but they just really sound a lot better. burn-in will be interesting. so far the soundstage and detail has much more depth and detail...

    the only thing i find surprising is that at higher volumes, the low end is well defined and detailed, but not as round as i thought it would be. but, there could be many things at play...

    bad mp3/Itunes files, which is all i have hooked up right now....

    a crowded circuit... in with my extremely overclocked water-cooled computer....

    i really need new cables....

    this 50W NAD just might not have it.

    this will be a bit of a drawn out process rebuilding a decent budget mid-fi system. the more i work on it, the more i enjoy it and look forward to the hunt for upgrades. and to start it all, i again must say how much i appreciate the help i have gotten in this thread and the Forums in general.

    thanks

    steve
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • ShackyShacky Posts: 113
    edited April 2012
    Did you end up using that 1.5 ohm resistor? Could that be source of "brightness"?

    Source is crucial. Compressed iTune files through computer - unless you have audio grade sound card - not the best. Maybe look at USB DAC?

    I ripped all my CD's Apple lossless and stream wirelessly via Squeezebox feeding Music Hall 25.3 DAC with upgraded Mullard tube. A good DAC makes hell of a difference but you also need to start with less or uncompressed files for best results.

    I'm starting recap of Monitor 11's. Polks are great speakers!!!
  • ShackyShacky Posts: 113
    edited April 2012
    I now see you already have USB DAC - sorry...
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited April 2012
    Shacky wrote: »
    I now see you already have USB DAC - sorry...
    yeah, its not the best, not the worst. but for $200 shipped i think it was a great intro. the headphone amp is awful, but the DAC is nice, and i am using TOSLINK instead of USB. seems real nice.



    Shacky wrote: »
    Did you end up using that 1.5 ohm resistor? Could that be source of "brightness"?

    Source is crucial. Compressed iTune files through computer - unless you have audio grade sound card - not the best. Maybe look at USB DAC?

    I ripped all my CD's Apple lossless and stream wirelessly via Squeezebox feeding Music Hall 25.3 DAC with upgraded Mullard tube. A good DAC makes hell of a difference but you also need to start with less or uncompressed files for best results.

    I'm starting recap of Monitor 11's. Polks are great speakers!!!
    hey there! yeah, i have been following your thread.... and so far, minus break-in, let me tell you my initial impression is it is worth every penny and every minute of time.

    and no i re-ordered the proper 2.0 Ohm. so everything is in order. the brightness i am sure is partially newness of caps and the old 2000 tweeters. plus the source.
    I have a network drive in place and am ready to start ripping lossless copies of our 300 or 400 cd's. i just wanted to get certain things taken care of first. i love projects!
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • ShackyShacky Posts: 113
    edited April 2012
    11tsteve wrote: »
    hey there! yeah, i have been following your thread....

    Then you know I made some ordering mistakes too. I am more familiar with 60's/70's vintage speakers. My collection includes AR 5, 3, 3a's, 2AX, 4x; KLH 23; Dynaco A25. Also have a pair of Thiel 03A's that continue to be a project and Vandersteen 2's that need a lot of work.

    I'm actually very pleased with the way my Monitor 11's sound as is but want to hear them at their best. If they get too bright out they will go.
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited April 2012
    Shacky wrote: »
    Then you know I made some ordering mistakes too. I am more familiar with 60's/70's vintage speakers. My collection includes AR 5, 3, 3a's, 2AX, 4x; KLH 23; Dynaco A25. Also have a pair of Thiel 03A's that continue to be a project and Vandersteen 2's that need a lot of work.

    I'm actually very pleased with the way my Monitor 11's sound as is but want to hear them at their best. If they get too bright out they will go.
    yeah, i just got far too excited to start my project, hence the re-order. more careful reading would be helpful.
    i just have the single pair of polks right now as i am much more concerned about amplification for the moment, but i can easily see myself turning into a collector of speakers. i used to be very into gear as a teen in the 80's, and am just getting back into the sawing right now. i am absolutely taken with the fact that as an adult with a job i can eventually afford some of the things i used to drool over as a kid.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • ShackyShacky Posts: 113
    edited April 2012
    Yep same here though I'm about a decade ahead of you. That NAD you have is supposed to be a great int amp. I'd be surprised if it would make that much difference. Are you sure you have polarity correct with speaker cables and drivers?
  • transmastertransmaster Posts: 428
    edited April 2012
    The eBay kit has non directional electrolytic which are nothing more the motor start capacitors. I just finished re-capping a pair of Warfedale w35's I purchased new in 1972. I used Dayton cap's from Part Express the difference it made was nothing less the astounding. I am presently getting rained with stuff vibrating off of the shelve around me from the Native American Percussion pounding out of the W35's. At the end of the week I am going to re-cap and replace the resistors on a pair of Monitor 10B's I purchased new in 1989. I am spending rather more on the Polks. The high pass will get a set of Sonicap Gen 1 12uf capacitors, the low pass will get a 33uf Axon True Cap, and the resistors will be replaced with Millers, and the Polyswitch will be replaced with a 0.5ohm mills. Axon cap's are made by the same outfit that makes Solen caps Parts Connexion, link below, has them on sale 50% off. Except for the Sonicaps you can purchase everything you need from Parts Connxeion. I have been told by others on the Polk forum it is a wast of money to get big buck cap's for the low pass, save the money get Daytons, Solen, Axon, and spend your money and the high end. Part Connexion is up in Canada and they have a decidedly personal touch. The best way to interact with them is by calling their toll free number. For the 10B's I ordered everything from Parts Connextion except the Sonicap Gen 1's. The Axon 33uf's I ordered where $6.15 cents each, if I had ordered the Sonicaps instead it would have cost 47.85 each. Have fun I wasn't sure what to expect but my old W35's continue to suprise me, The Polk Monitor 10B have much great performance then the W35 I can wait to hear the resurrection of the 10B's.

    http://www.partsconnexion.com/index.html
    Radio Station W7ITC
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited April 2012
    Shacky wrote: »
    Yep same here though I'm about a decade ahead of you. That NAD you have is supposed to be a great int amp. I'd be surprised if it would make that much difference. Are you sure you have polarity correct with speaker cables and drivers?
    yup. polarity is correct. don't get me wrong. it is not thin, like a polarity problem. i just had a different thought in my head.
    and the NAD isn't awful, but i do think an extra 100-150 watts might change things if i get a quality amp. i am actually running the NAD through my 1020 preamp, which sounds better to my ears than the integrated...
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited April 2012
    and it looks like i may have found a decent deal on an amp. a 250W Acurus A-250, with some Tara Labs interconnects and apature accusound cables for $400 shipped. what the heck, i'll give it a shot. i have been looking for a nice 200W B&K, but they keep going beyond my budget.

    any thoughts here?
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited April 2012
    well the budget was already blown when i started getting caps...so what the heck.

    the Acurus A250 is on the way as well as 2 RDO-194s to complete my odyssey...and i had an electrician over today who rewired my home office and ran a dedicated 20A circuit for me... to be separated from my wife's work station. and our office was ungrounded, so we fixed that.
    i will be using the NAD 1020 for now as a preamp until i can figure out what i might want. most likely a power conditioner might come first.....

    it has been interesting burning in the new crossovers. i do not necessarily find all of the changes to be subtle at times... the lowend is nicer now, but the mid-highs seem to have taken a bit of a turn. at first everything seemed super bright, now the mids seem overpowering at times.... very strange. i am probably at 100 hours or so, maybe a little more.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 23,891
    edited April 2012
    Some of that will change as more burn in, but you will notice a huge difference with the RD0 tweeters. Those need atleast 250 hours of burn in as well.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited April 2012
    funny i was just thinking about my math.... i am way off there if i just got them done this last weekend.... best estimate is actually 50 hours tops, so i have a long way to go. and i was figuring on leaving in the sl2000's until they were done, so i can more accurately judge the difference between them and the rdo-194.
    so far this has been one of the most gratifying and enjoyable projects i have taken on. different but more satisfying than overclocking.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited April 2012
    well i have two RDO-194s sitting on my desk... the 50W NAD integrated is sold, and i now have an Acurus A250 that just came in the mail today, waiting. also are the Apature speaker cables and interconnects.... monday will be the Acurus RL-11 preamp. should be a good weekend....
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • skrolskrol Posts: 2,661
    edited April 2012
    We really need a drool smiley.

    I almost bought an Acurus 100x3 which had a very sweet character.
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i

    HT:
    Denon AVR-888, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW10, Marantz UD5005, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, TSi100; Pioneer: CT-6R, PL-530; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, Polk: RM7, Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    edited April 2012
    skrol wrote: »
    We really need a drool smiley.

    I almost bought an Acurus 100x3 which had a very sweet character.
    its all hooked up, still via te NAD 1020 pre, which i disassembled and cleaned this weekend. it really isn't a bad preamp. i like the low and high-output hookups. i believe it may be like the active/passive aspect of other preamps.
    the A250 is very nice, so far. apparently the seller had used it in a theater setup when first purchased, and then it went into the box in a closet for some years. judging by its condition, i would believe this. it is nearly immaculate, and sounds very clean. it has a slight buzz for 2 seconds when first turned on, but is dead silent otherwise. and going from a 50W NAD, well...
    i keep saying this but its true... between the crossovers and the new tweeters, there is a lot of time before everything settles in, but so far the soundstage is large, deep, and well defined.... there are some annoying crispy highs now and then, depending on the material, but nothing to panic about right now, considering.
    i will be enjoying the process as i sit and rip cd's for the next few days.
    then i get the Acurus preamp...
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • stanbarstanbar Posts: 11
    11tsteve,
    This is an old thread but I'm considering doing a cap upgrade on my 11t's. Already have the RDO-194 tweeters in place and already own an Acurus A250. Just wondering if you still have them and how they have served you over the years since this thread took a pause. Thanks!
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 464
    Unfortunately the OP went broke from upgradeitis, thanks to the wonderful members here, causing his wife to file for divorce and him to file bankruptcy. He's currently living under a bridge but STILL has the 11t's and enjoys them daily...

    I am going to be doing this as well with my 11t's. Start a new thread so you can get properly introduced. Excellent support here!

    PS, I'm divorced. You?
    Home System:
    SDA 1C's - Full mod with the help by Dave...
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
    Sangean HD FM Tuner

    Barn system:
    SDA SRS 2.3's Full mod done by myself
    Carver C-1 pre
    Carver M1.5t
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    Well, after upgrading the 11T's, 5JR+, a set of Infinity Rsb (with new coils as well), and my Lsi9, re-veneering all of the Polks, and ending up with the Gold McCormack DNA .5, my wife started raising eyebrows. Things have been scaled back just a little.
    I sold the 11T to a close friend, so I still get to listen to them, if only via a Denon AVR, but they are still going strong.
    I loved those speakers, and out of everything I have done, the benefited the most from crossover upgrades. Or, I should say, they had the most remarkable and audible change in sound. But they were not practical anymore for my listening habitat, and my buddy loved them.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 464
    edited February 8
    Lucky you! My ex would have bought 5000 pairs of shoes in retaliation!
    Home System:
    SDA 1C's - Full mod with the help by Dave...
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
    Sangean HD FM Tuner

    Barn system:
    SDA SRS 2.3's Full mod done by myself
    Carver C-1 pre
    Carver M1.5t
  • 11tsteve11tsteve Posts: 1,173
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Lucky you! My ex would have bought 5000 pairs of shoes in retaliation!

    If you could see all of the clothes and shoes that never get worn.....

    The big difference is my wife doesn't play games, and doesn't do competitive spending.... but the "look" and the brief "comments" I get are far, far worse.

    "It's your money" combined with "How much life insurance do you have?" are a one-two combo.
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 2,884
    Worth more dead than alive, are you? You're not the only one brother.
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