2015/16 Audi A3 2.0T Quattro?

Conradicles · January 2018

mikeyb128 wrote: »

What a chore this was to write from a phone.

That's too funny!

heiney9 · January 2018

obieone wrote: »

mikeyb128 wrote: »

heiney9 wrote: »

Mikeyb, thinking of going Unitronic in my 2017 GTi, both engine and DSG. What's your opinion? Right now I just picked up a Dinan piggyback tuning box for cheap (brand new $150). Waiting until she's broken in more for the Unitronic tune as it will void my warranty..........not ready for that yet as I only have 4400 miles on her.

uni has fantastic customer support, and an excellent track record of reliability. I’ve flashed my golf R through every stage with zero problems. My car has been stage 2 with HPFP and launch control (it’s a manual transmission) since 28,000kms. I’m at 101,000 now and have had zero issues as well. If you go with the higher stages I highly recommend their exhaust, intakes and intercoolers. They use high quality stainless with v band clamps at all connections. Their parts literally fit like factory. Go stage 1 to see how you like it. It’s a huge jump in HP (87!) it wakes that thing right up! No modifications necessary for stage 1.

Couple of questions:
1. I've heard that APR doesn't void the warranty, is that true?
2. What difference is there between APR and Unitronic? It seems the HP gains are about the same for the roughly the same price?

APR has a new program where they offer a slightly lower output tune and will give you the same warranty as VW. It adds about $400-500 to the cost of the tune. I would suggest if interested read the fine print in the contract. There's a huge discussion on the MK7 Golf forums about it.

I seriously thought about it. The kicker for me is the only way to get the APR warranty work done (if you have an issue) is to take it to closest APR dealer. For me that would be in the suburbs of Chicago about 55 miles away. That could be a big hassle as well as costly. So I decided for now to pass.

http://www.goapr.com/news/2017/12/13/apr-expands-the-apr-plus-limited-powertrain-warranty-program/

It's called APR Plus

nguyendot · January 2018

Modifications CAN void your warranty. It's up to your dealer/mfg to make the decision to enforce it or not. If they can prove whatever you did caused the failure, they will stick it to you. If you make friends your service advisor they might help you out. A box of donuts goes a long way.

nguyendot · January 2018

Legender wrote: »

Emlyn wrote: »

No way around it, owning a luxury brand long term will be more expensive than driving an econobox. This is true for Lexus as well, they just tend not to have the same number of parts go bad over the lomg term. You still pay more to own the vehicle compared to a Toyota.

Don't really agree with this based on personal experience. BMW, Audi, Mercedes more expensive, totally agree. But not Lexus.. in the family we have 6 Lexus vehicles from 33k to 230k miles. All but 2 were bought with over 100k miles on them. Outside of normal maintenance of batteries, brakes, tires, oil changes, these have been awesome vehicles. I can get the basic maintenance parts from Toyota at cheaper prices. The big parts, just don't fail on these cars... not saying they're perfect, but for long term, they just run and are not that expensive to maintain.

Again, just my personal experience.

This is because they for the most part don't go stupidly outlandish on things that can break. Their powertrain is as close to bulletproof as possible and the electronics aren't wild. People know what to expect from Toyota/Lexus and that shows with brand loyalty. With the Germans - people usually own them for the warranty period and then dump them. Those that pick them up for cheap forget that buying a $70,000 5 series for $25,000 five years later doesn't mean they'll have a $25,000 car to service/fix. They still have a $75,000 car to service/maintain.

kharp1 · January 2018

Before we bought the Mercedes for my ex I went to several respected import repair shops and asked the service managers their opinions on some different vehicles and received very similar responses. They all said they routinely see Mercedes and BMW vehicles with 400K-500K miles. They can, and do, get that kind of longevity if the scheduled maintenance is performed. That was in line with exactly what I was seeing when I went looking at pre owned vehicles of these makes. I did my research because the Ford Contour we had at the time was giving my wife headaches. She put about 200 miles a day on a vehicle with her job and schedule and wanted something reliable. We weren't getting that out of the Contour, that, plus the hassle of dealing with the Ford service from that era, which has undergone a serious transformation. After much research I came to realize that the German cars were more expensive from the start because they put more expensive parts in. Scheduled maintenance was costly because they were putting good quality parts back in, but when done by reputable service people, resulted in cars that could reach staggering heights in mileage and reliability. Most people buy a car and drive it until something goes wrong with it instead of being proactive and doing scheduled preventive maintenance. The Mercedes and Bmw's come with an owners log that, if properly kept, raises the value of the car on resale.

heiney9 · January 2018

nguyendot wrote: »

Modifications CAN void your warranty. It's up to your dealer/mfg to make the decision to enforce it or not. If they can prove whatever you did caused the failure, they will stick it to you. If you make friends your service advisor they might help you out. A box of donuts goes a long way.

Pretty much a done deal if you do a flash tune. It's very rare (but it does happen) that if they detect a tune that you will be covered by warranty. Even your dealer can claim you're safe, but it's not up to the dealer. It's up to HQ and it will be detected.

It can be detected even if you unflash it before you take it to the dealer. Once it's flagged TD1, then from that point forward they (in all likelihood) will void the powertrain warranty. Piggyback tunes so far are still stealthy enough that I haven't heard of one being detected, but still not a 100% guarantee. But you do have to remove it before it goes into for service. So if you break down in the middle of the night and it's 10* outside, you need to get in there and remove the piggyback before the tow truck comes....lol.

Bottom-line, you have to pay to play. If you do a flash tune, assume the warranty is void and you'll need to cover the repair. If the turbo blows and takes the head with it, expect about a $5000-6000 or more repair at the dealer, etc.

P.s. They don't have to prove anything. If you're tuned and a part of the powertrain is damaged or even defective, they will deny coverage. Before someone throws the Moss-Magnuson order around, be sure and read it. Moss-Magnuson was not put in place for modification beyond what the manufacturer intended. MM was put in place so one could go to Napa and get like parts to repair and maintain their cars without having to specifically go to their dealer and buy OEM parts. MM states as long as the part(s) used meet a certain specification they can be used and a manufacturer like Audi can't deny warranty coverage because you didn't use a genuine Audi part. MM has nothing to do with modifications outside the manufacturer specifications.

heiney9 · January 2018

^^^ All that being said, VW/Audi products are well built and have a lot of room to tune without issues. I've been following the various platforms and the major tuners for a couple of decades and as long as you use your head, I've seen tunes that are pretty aggressive be completely fine and zero issues.

The new MQB platform has proved to be extremely robust and the tuning possibilities are crazy. A good stage 1 flash tune on the conservative side can net 90 more hp and 120 more lb ft of torque. DSG transmissions can handle it, but stock manuals need to be upgraded to prevent eventual slipping with the extra torque. No other mods necessary, everything else is stock.

MK7 GTi's on the MQB platform have been out in US since 2015 and in Europe since 2012-13. Very few reports of tuning blowing anything up. So realistically you're pretty safe, but in an instance where you have an issue, your warranty is 99% of the time going to be void.

obieone · January 2018

I want to thank everyone for their feedback. I know the tweaking route is safe for the most part, but, I'm a little skittish at the thought of being on the hook for a $6k motor rebuild due to a blown turbo.
The reason I was looking at the A3+ tweaking was because the V6 Passat's and CC's were rare to find with both low prices and mileage.
I'll be on the fence for a while.

jeremie · January 2018

F1nut wrote: »

Look where Tesla is.....not good.

Yet, my tacoma is #1 and it like all the 3rd gens have a bunch of issues. I would rather have the tesla.

jeremie · January 2018

My wife had a 2012 Q5 2.0t and it was crap. It eventually had to be towed and traded in at 62k miles. Turbo issues, timing chain went bad due to a bad design and service interval and damaged the engine. Heard the newer ones are better.

mikeyb128 · January 2018

obieone wrote: »

I want to thank everyone for their feedback. I know the tweaking route is safe for the most part, but, I'm a little skittish at the thought of being on the hook for a $6k motor rebuild due to a blown turbo.
The reason I was looking at the A3+ tweaking was because the V6 Passat's and CC's were rare to find with both low prices and mileage.
I'll be on the fence for a while.

How the hell does a blown turbo cause a complete engine rebuild?

Forget the A3 and buy the new golf R. It cheaper, and has a nicer interior, plus you could get one new, since you’re already a vw guy.

obieone · January 2018

^^^
LOL, my price range for the A3 was <$20k so, a new R @ $40k is NOT happening.

If a turbo goes, what happens? I was TOLD you lose the engine.

Airplay355 · January 2018

If the pieces of the turbo fan end up inside the engine they can certainly ruin it.

Airplay355 · January 2018

What draws you to the A3? You like the brand? Want an AWD sedan? The design?

tonyb · January 2018

Seems to me, some of you guys are trying to balance the cool factor with the reliability/dependability factor.

It's been my experience that both rarely exist in the same vehicle. Sporty, quick cars, and reliability don't seem to jive well....not in the long term anyway.

I like the Lexus brand because they bridge the 2 camps about as well as anyone. I must say though, even within Lexus, the sportier models have lower reliability than the luxury or sedan models. Don't ask me why that is, but it's been my experience across many brands over the last 4 decades.

All higher end models/brands carry more expensive repair costs, all of them. Trick then is, if you want a higher end sedan or sporty car, is to pick one with the least amount of problems. Lexus tops that list, even well after the warranty ends. Otherwise, those repair costs of other brands is just the nature of the beast that comes along with owning them.

Speaking of turbo's too, I never had a model that was turbo charged that wasn't a frequent visitor to the mechanic.

heiney9 · January 2018

tonyb wrote: »

Speaking of turbo's too, I never had a model that was turbo charged that wasn't a frequent visitor to the mechanic.

Then you've not had a good turbo designed car. Today's turbo's are much better and much more reliable than in the older days and designs.

I have 90K on 2009 MK5 GTi, it's been almost flawless. The two issues I have had 1 was was just freak electrical issue easily diagnosed and repaired, the other was an electrical issue covered outside of the warranty because of a flaw in the length of a wiring harness. A tune up, a set of rear brakes and a couple sets of tires, new thermostat..........and that's it. Oh yeah, and new HID headlight bulb.

My parents have a 2000 VW Passat with a turbo and 121K miles, not a single engine/turbo related problem and they do the minimum maintenance.

Can't speak for other brands or older designs.

heiney9 · January 2018

mikeyb128 wrote: »

How the hell does a blown turbo cause a complete engine rebuild?

Forget the A3 and buy the new golf R. It cheaper, and has a nicer interior, plus you could get one new, since you’re already a vw guy.

Many times pieces of the turbine make their way into the intake and destroys the head and then it can destroy the bottom end too. Really depends on how it blows and at what stage the owner shuts it down.

Early NAR 2015 GTi's had some bad turbos from the manufacturer. Only a small percentage however, revisions were put into place once the flaw was discovered. Otherwise they seem to be rock solid. I spend a lot of time now and in the past decade or so on most of the VW boards. A blown turbo on a stock car is not a common thing, it's even rare on a tuned car.

Ricardo · January 2018

My 2 cents on tuning. I had a 2012 GTI with a stage 1 APR, custom intake/exhaust and never had an issue.
A co-worker did APR stage 1 to his 2016 GTI and he blew the engine. I'm pretty sure it had nothing to do with the tune, but as soon as they detected it they denied warranty repair. It cost him $8,000.
As Brock said...you gotta pay to play and if you tune you are taking a big risk.

obieone · January 2018

Airplay355 wrote: »

What draws you to the A3? You like the brand? Want an AWD sedan? The design?

The price range for 2-3 y.o.cars with less than 40k mileage, and also the AWD, along the with a boatload of head room for tuning.
It's weird; The same engine goes in the GLI as the A3, but with the APR stage 1, the A3 gains 96 HP, but the GLI only gains 52, with 93 octane.
I'm assuming these limits were put in place by VAG. Wouldn't look good if $30K GLI smoked a $40k A3

obieone · January 2018

Ricardo wrote: »

My 2 cents on tuning. I had a 2012 GTI with a stage 1 APR, custom intake/exhaust and never had an issue.
A co-worker did APR stage 1 to his 2016 GTI and he blew the engine. I'm pretty sure it had nothing to do with the tune, but as soon as they detected it they denied warranty repair. It cost him $8,000.
As Brock said...you gotta pay to play and if you tune you are taking a big risk.

THAT is why I'm paranoid. I may just stick to a Passat/ CC with V6 NA engine, which would give me 280 hp (110 more than what I'm currently driving.)

mikeyb128 · January 2018

Airplay355 wrote: »

If the pieces of the turbo fan end up inside the engine they can certainly ruin it.

When the turbo blows, the pieces get caught in the intercooler. They never make their way into the engine. Worst case scenario is an oil seal goes, and oil causes hydro lock, and a rod can bend, but this is rare on these cars. Most of the turbo failures are due to excessive play in the wastegate flaps, which In turn causes under boosts, and the MIL to come on. It’s almost impossible for pieces of the impeller blades to travel past the intercooler fins then keep traveling through all that intercooler piping and go into the engine, just remember the turbo is blown now so it’s not making boost, and there’s not enough suction from the engine itself to suck up the pieces.

What do I know. Not like I work on these cars for a living. I stay away from car forums for this exact reason, most people have no idea what they’re talking about. Lol I’m done with this tread.

Just buy a Honda.

Airplay355 · January 2018

I thought pieces/turbo shrapnel could end up in engine. Seems strange my mistake would offend you so much.

Waaaaah just buy a Honda

Ricardo · January 2018

obieone wrote: »

THAT is why I'm paranoid. I may just stick to a Passat/ CC with V6 NA engine, which would give me 280 hp (110 more than what I'm currently driving.)

Torque steering in those V6's is horrible.

You want power get a Mustang GT

heiney9 · January 2018

Ricardo wrote: »

My 2 cents on tuning. I had a 2012 GTI with a stage 1 APR, custom intake/exhaust and never had an issue.
A co-worker did APR stage 1 to his 2016 GTI and he blew the engine. I'm pretty sure it had nothing to do with the tune, but as soon as they detected it they denied warranty repair. It cost him $8,000.
As Brock said...you gotta pay to play and if you tune you are taking a big risk.

On a 2016? Most I've heard are early 2015's. But anything can happen. I would agree, I doubt the tune was at fault. But once they know you're tuned, they will deny warranty, especially engine failures, etc.

I only have 4400 miles on my 2017 I bought in May. Still just a baby. I'm not in a hurry to tune, but I will eventually, once I get more mile on her. I did get a piggyback tune to put on in the Spring (Dinan). Good for 30hp and 40 lb. ft., very mild and it can be removed. The Android app can switch between 4 modes. I bought it new for about 60% off the normal price, really a no brainer.

Mikeyb, I believe you. The failures I've read about are mostly early 2015's and the turbo seems to be the issue. There have been some early 2015's that have had a stuck open injector, washed all the oil off the piston and caused engine failure. Some of that has to be because the owner continued to drive it even though there was clearly something wrong. But since I've been tracking the MK7's in the past couple years, I've only read about 3 or 4 with this issue. All anecdotal for sure as one never gets 100% of the story or diagnosis from a bulletin board group. But I follow the issues pretty closely.

Overall the MK7 GTi and the Gen 3 EA888 MQB motor has been great, highly tunable and gives better mileage despite the increased HP and TQ. The new MQB architecture is rock solid, lighter than the previous and increases the fun factor a lot. You get a lot of car for $30-35K

2015/16 Audi A3 2.0T Quattro?

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