Need new central heat/AC

BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 9,522
The central heater/AC for this house was probably built/installed in the early 80s, and now needs to be replaced by something reliable and efficient. It is mounted on the roof, and is gas heat.

Any suggestions for a good replacement. I don’t mind paying a few extra dollars for something that will work 20-30 years with no issues.
Bud

Lumin S1
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
Shunyata Z Anaconda XLR analog ICs, Z Anaconda speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.

Comments

  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 8,650
    Rhreem
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures, Simaudio 780D DAC
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Modwright LS100, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 9,522
    I like that name. Hope they don’t do it to their customers. :)

    Thanks.
    Bud

    Lumin S1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Z Anaconda XLR analog ICs, Z Anaconda speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • hochpt21hochpt21 Posts: 4,928
    Tooooobsss...
    __________________________________________________
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    Speakers - GoldenEar Triton 2
    __________________________________________________
    7.1 Home Theater
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    Speakers - SDA 2A (x-overs etc...); Epos Epic 2; Polk Audio Monitor 70 (my first)
    __________________________________________________
  • nbrowsernbrowser Posts: 7,147
    Wood in the winter, open windows and fans in the summer, very reliable. :)
    Living room: Samsung UN55KU7000 4K UHD HDR 55 inch TV, Marantz CD6004, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon, Parasound zPhono, Mac Mini, Oppo BDP-93, XBox One S 2Tb, Kenwood DPX792BH car deck for radio purposes, Marantz SR5010 AVR, Parasound HCA-1200II, Front SDA 2 modded with Larrys Rings and RD0-194-1 tweeters, Rear Onkyo SKF-4800 Towers, Center CSiA6, BOOM Tannoy TS2.12 Sub, Audioquest Evergreen interconnects just about everywhere except from AVR to amp, MIT Terminator 4, MIT AVT3 speaker cables with extra terminals covered up Monitor 5 Jr+ in the wings for a center channel.
  • charley95charley95 Posts: 585
    Took out a Rheem that had been in my house since 77. Damn fine unit, just upgraded to a York that I installed in 2011 with no issues so far. I've heard that Lennox parts are only available to techs. only and not available to consumers. Parts availability without having to call a tech. is important to me. I'm lucky to know a retired HVAC guy that does installs for a fraction of what other outfits charge. He sold me my York furnace/AC for $2900 installed.
  • obieoneobieone Posts: 5,032
    edited January 14
    Knowing your location will help determine what you need(just need a state)
    If you live in the north, and run the heat 70% of the year, then a bullet proof brand would be Trane, or York.
    MAKE SURE you tell the salesperson, you want the simplest controls possible (Lennox has gotten SUPER stupid with over engineering stuff)

    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
  • rpf65rpf65 Posts: 1,494
    Package units,mi would go with Rheem/Ruud. Trance makes good units, I just hate working on them. I would stay away from Carrier and Lennox products. Just too many electronics in those guys, and there's a high failure rate on package units.

    Goodman tends to keep me busy, and that pretty much covers them. York, not very many of them in my area, one sub-division that I can think of. No package units, but not the best installs on split systems, so quite a few problems.
  • decaldecal Posts: 2,945
    Nothing runs like a Trane.
    If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money.
  • shawn474shawn474 Posts: 2,702
    We got a Bryant about 9 years ago and have not had one issue with it whatsoever. Runs like a champ, quiet and efficient. We only have about 1300 square feet so that probably factors into it but never a problem. The only thing I did was install a whole house humidifier as we have a very dry house.
    Shawn
    Pre-Amp: Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH
    Amp: B&K AV5000 Series II
    Center Channel: Polk LSI C
    Front: Polk LSI 9's
    Rear: LSI fx
    Subwoofer: Mirage Omni S10
    Television: Samsung LN46B640
    DVD Player: Sony BDP-S1000ES
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 9,522
    I live in CA. Don't need the heat all that much, but I want it to work when I need it. The AC is important as the stereo creates a lot of heat, and in the summer I need to keep the windows closed to keep the music inside.

    Thanks for the info.
    Bud

    Lumin S1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Z Anaconda XLR analog ICs, Z Anaconda speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • mrbigbluelightmrbigbluelight Posts: 7,309
    All the commercial divisions of the Big Boys (Carrier, Trane, etc) are having some difficulties. One of the first areas that companies cut back on is maintenance.
    "Deferred maintenance" is the new buzz word, so businesses think, "Hey, it's running now, so do we really need to punch those tubes ?".
    As the Big Boys lose business and their senior techs retire (Get out while the gettings good), they attempt to steal the known good techs from each other.

    Any-who, the general thought now seems to be, "Hey, let's over design our residential units, sell them relatively cheap, and make our profits on the back end in service calls and parts".
    Lennox and Trane only sell replacement parts to their techs. Proprietary parts out the wahzoo (and believe me, that's painful !).

    Rheem is a good recommendation.
    If a company tries to convince you to buy a heat pump, punch them in the face, and throw them off the front porch. :o
    MrBigBlueLight
    Here to pick your brain & steal your cookies
    Shifting to Plan B+
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 15,620
    FWIW I am currently liking the idea of a heat pump as (work with me here ;) ) backup for our LPG-fired boiler. Said boiler happens to be a Buderus (now Bosch, apparently) -- talk about too much technology! :( It is darned complex and finicky.

    So, we now have a little over 5 kW of photovoltaic panels online :) ... and suddenly the idea of a heat pump for summer cooling and as better-than-freezing-and-bursting-pipes backup for heating is becoming attractive to me. Mind you, we decided not to install central air in this house when we had it built -- a decision I regret every summer for about 2 weeks :/

    Heat-pump heat (even with electric 'booster' heat when it's crazy cold) as a hedge against boiler failure/burst pipes is lookin' like an attractive option to me (not that we've gone too far down the road of evaluating options, yet). I read good things about the Mitsubishi units, and we had installed a two-piece Mitsubishi "Mr. Slim" :) air conditioner in our old house in MA some years back (and we were quite happy with it).

    http://www.mitsubishicomfort.com/benefits/hyper-heating

    I can absolutely 100% see replacing our current gas-fired boiler with something simpler and/or more robust in the fullness of time (irrespective of the above-mentioned, umm, pipe dreams about a heat pump)... so this thread is of interest to me! It sounds, so far, like there's no "slam-dunk" 100% satisfaction-guaranteed option, even from the big names, though :(


    9chzuovxd15o.jpg



    "Some amps run on self bias, some amps run on fixed bias. But his amps run on confirmation bias." -- seen on audioasylum

  • mrbigbluelightmrbigbluelight Posts: 7,309
    Where you're at and the temperatures you experience, Mr. Hardy, a "normal' heat pump arrangement (air condenser) wouldn't really do you any good, IMO, for any potential heating concerns. You'd almost always be using auxiliary heat (electric heat coils).
    With the property you have, though, a heat loop field could work. You'd definitely want to consult with a competent, trusted contractor to get an estimate for a ground loop.
    MrBigBlueLight
    Here to pick your brain & steal your cookies
    Shifting to Plan B+
  • JstasJstas Posts: 13,550
    I just did all this at my other house.

    I went with Coleman products. Yes, it's the same name as Coleman camping stuff but it's just a brand name for the consumer level stuff from Johnson Controls. JC has huge arms for industrial stuff that is branded Johnson Controls but they also have commercial arms and consumer arms.

    The brands from Johnson Controls that you would be familiar with at a residential level are York and Coleman.

    http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/
    http://www.colemanac.com/
    http://www.york.com/

    I have zero complaints about the Coleman products. They are efficient and my heater and AC share a blower unit so my heater and ac unit both have SEER ratings of about 14 by themselves. Combine them to work together and the SEER rating jumps to 15. For the size of the units needed for that house, the only way you get a higher SEER rating is go to with the TOTL Lennox system which is 3 times the cost.

    I replaced my heater, AC and water heater (water heater is a Rheem) for about $9800. My utility bill budget per year dropped almost $3K out of it because of how efficient everything is now. The AC that was replaced was ~28 years old. The heater was 19 and the water heater was 11.

    My other house has dual zone AC with a Lennox system for upstairs and a Unico for downstairs. The heat is radiant heat and the boiler is a Munchkin. I don't have enough experience with the Lennox, Unico and Munchkin systems to have an opinion but the Innertubeswebs say that all 3 are tops. So far, I can't complain.

    https://www.unicosystem.com/
    https://www.lennox.com/residential
    http://www.munchkinboiler.net/

    I would not necessarily go for "the best" but find an HVAC company who will actually do an assessment on your house and be honest with you. If I could recommend the one I went with to you, I would but I doubt their coverage area includes CA all the way from NJ.


    Also, Trane is no longer bulletproof. They moved manufacturing to China and Mexico and have had severe quality issues since. So much so that there are class action suits against them. I would avoid them right now until they get their act together. It's so bad that a few HVAC companies here have dropped them and don't even offer them as an option anymore because the warranty claims were killing the business.

    Carrier is also having issues and the guys I bought my stuff from are a Carrier dealer as well and they recommended to steer clear for now because of their issues too. It's not that they break real easy or have manufacturing defects like Trane is going though. It's because they are moving production overseas despite everything and you can't get parts for them. So if it breaks you could be looking at weeks of downtime. Not cool. Both figuratively and literally.
    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • JstasJstas Posts: 13,550
    Oh, also, the units replaced at by the Coleman and Rheem stuff:

    AC - Rheem, almost 30 years old
    Heater - Coleman, about 19 years old so it was a Johnson Controls brand then too
    Water Heater - A. O. Smith, was 11 years old, probably should have been replaced 2 years earlier but I keep cobbling it back together. I replaced it because it started to leak.
    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 28,037
    I dunno Professor, given your house is located on plenty of wooded acreage, wouldn't adding a wood burner to the existing make sense ? They also make those ones you keep outside, looks like an outhouse with a chimney, to heat water inside. You kill 2 birds with one stone, heat the joint and get rid of the downed wood on the property.
    ERA D-5
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  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 9,522
    I posted this on three sites to gather as much info as possible, and Rheem/Trane seem to be the top responses so far. This was the first time Coleman was mentioned, and I wasn't aware they were also in this business. My spa, which I bought in 94, is a Coleman, and it has been pretty reliable. However, it probably isn't related to the AC/heater division.
    Bud

    Lumin S1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Z Anaconda XLR analog ICs, Z Anaconda speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • charley95charley95 Posts: 585
    I think Coleman is made by York if I'm not mistaken.
  • JstasJstas Posts: 13,550
    Whatever.

    Don't read my post.

    If you don't want to listen to me maybe you'll read a Wikipedia article instead. Johnson Controls effectively started in 1883 and you owe your electronic thermostats to Warren Johnson. He invented them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Controls

    Or should I create a bunch of shill accounts and go to other forums and just mindlessly bleat a brand name like everyone else just to get you to think for yourself and do some research?

    Either way, it's your funeral. Have fun.
    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 8,650
    Rheem
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures, Simaudio 780D DAC
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Modwright LS100, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers
  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 887
    I have a bryant evolution 5 stage and it sips kilowatts in the summer. 90 deg and humid, i was averaging between 5 and 9 kWh per day....less than $1 for 24 hrs.

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