CABLE TALK??

1235

Comments

  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,042
    ptrooper wrote: »
    They will be replaced with shotguns in the future :)

    Now you're talking. These MH750's just arrived yesterday to replace my Terminator 4's. To me it's money well spent on yet another upgrade. kmtx8aky6iyd.jpg
  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 501
    edited January 2018
    Noice,you should hear a big difference there.Please let me know what you think during and after burn in!
    Im going to replace my transparent reference mm2 rca with reference xl mm2 balanced to the main rig in the very near future...exciting stuff,gets the heart rate up and a little woody always. <3
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    HAHAHAHAHA, WHAT A BUNCH OF MORONS!!! Wire is wire is wire. I bought my Wirewirld SIlver Equinox because I thought the outside casing thing was cool. Plus, if times get tight I can melt the wire down and sell the silver. SUCKERS!!!
  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    edited January 2018
    Upstatemax wrote: »
    The whole cable debate will never go away. It's simply not in the human condition for everyone to see eye to eye on this, or even discuss it in a civil manner most of the time.

    Between; ignorance, jealousy, personal economic standing, value perception and flat out refusal to learn this will always be a circular event.

    So, the chances for world peace are looking pretty slim :(

    https://youtu.be/3st-Hai1y54
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    halo wrote: »
    Upstatemax wrote: »
    The whole cable debate will never go away. It's simply not in the human condition for everyone to see eye to eye on this, or even discuss it in a civil manner most of the time.

    Between; ignorance, jealousy, personal economic standing, value perception and flat out refusal to learn this will always be a circular event.

    So, the chances for world peace are looking pretty slim :(

    https://youtu.be/3st-Hai1y54

    God, I want to be punished by her!
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    lightman1 wrote: »
    I spent about $16 on cables....all of them.

    Many of mine were from the swap pile at the Harvard (MA) town dump.
    In fact, I decommissioned my foundling Monstrous cables some time back 'cause all y'all made fun of them.

    :)

    15775285592_828de568a5_b.jpgDSC_0586 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    Say, I just had a wry thought -- as hifi moves inexorably to wireless technologies, are their going to be high-end aether providers to improve the transmission of wifi signals?
  • tonyp063
    tonyp063 Posts: 1,044
    Mark, that's a can o' worms you do *not* want to open.
  • TNTsTunes
    TNTsTunes Posts: 751
    What a way to screw up a good thread I was following for the discussion and debates that were occurring about the thread topic.
    You see I haven’t debated cables at all, only what provokes one to argue. I am not seeing where my thinking is delusional at all. All I see is support for my original claim.

    As a global moderator on a different forum this is what I would have to say about your above post and your previous posts.

    Based upon your posting history in this thread, it seems like the goal was to start an Internet pissing match vs. good discussion/debate. We're not asking you to walk on egg shells when you post, just be mindful of why you're posting. Our goal is to foster fun, interesting, and sincere discussion, even if a little "spirited". Thanks for your cooperation.

    Please I am not trolling at all. I don’t think I have been anything but respectful. Jesse is a big boy and it was his choice to respond to my post.

    Right....

    Nice try with your edit below you added to the above post, it doesn't change the picture you painted of yourself in your previous posts.... It didn't even make it prettier.
    The original question was what makes a cable thread go south, was it not?

    I answered that question. Jesse disagreed and commented that it’s always the naysayers. I think I was able to demonstrate that that isn’t always the case, we haven’t heard from the naysayers, and that my original post is more true than false.

    And for the record I am in the camp who has heard differences in cable and believe that cables can and will tune ones system to their liking.


    Nice avatar by the way it seems fitting for some reason.

    adl7ezxl8h7q.jpg

    Is it only me or is there a resemblance???

    41lbqx87syL._SX300_.jpg


    Can we please try to stay on topic some of us actually are interested in it.

    I for one would like to see this thread continue without the bs. Thanks.





    "Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
    a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."


  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,053
    Reminds me of the DSG vs. Manual transmission threads on a Volkswagen forum I frequent.

    Electronically controlled dual clutch manual vs. a human controlled single clutch manual. Exactly the same type of attitudes and responses as the cable debates. I found it quite interesting how the template can be layed over either debate and it lines up pretty well.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • TNTsTunes
    TNTsTunes Posts: 751
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Reminds me of the DSG vs. Manual transmission threads on a Volkswagen forum I frequent.

    Electronically controlled dual clutch manual vs. a human controlled single clutch manual. Exactly the same type of attitudes and responses as the cable debates. I found it quite interesting how the template can be layed over either debate and it lines up pretty well.

    I'll pick an electronically shifted dual clutch manual transmission that requires a floor mounted clutch pedal for use in first gear personally.
    "Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
    a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."


  • TNTsTunes
    TNTsTunes Posts: 751
    I just want to figure out a good economical speaker cable to use. I agree that cable makes a difference but it seems the cost factor increases dramatically and the improvement doesn't change as exponentially.
    "Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
    a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."


  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,053
    edited January 2018
    That's a fair question and most of us have found our sweet spot in cables by experimenting.

    What do you feel comfortable paying? Not that wire quality is strictly dictated by $$. It follows for the most part, but like anything else there are excellent performers that punch higher than their typical price point.

    Something on the cheaper side that is excellent for it's price is Canare Star Quad 4S11. Typically bare, unterminated wire. But if you go to the Blue Jeans Cable website they will sell it terminated with whatever.

    Signal Cable has a couple great speaker cables as well as I/C's that perform well at their price point.

    Check out our own Heliptodoug (Douglas Cables) he makes some great cables too at a variety of price points.

    I personally have found my cables for life in MIT. They are spendy but are very much worth it (to the point I'm willing to pay), IMO.
    Post edited by heiney9 on
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    TNTsTunes wrote: »
    I just want to figure out a good economical speaker cable to use. I agree that cable makes a difference but it seems the cost factor increases dramatically and the improvement doesn't change as exponentially.

    Good points, not all wire/cables are proportional to price paid, and as Brock mentioned, they can get costly. Perhaps you could post area where you live and see if there is a member nearby. Maybe you could get together for a little wire sampling. Sometimes members have extra sets laying around that they may be willing to loan out to "well qualified individuals" as they say.
  • TNTsTunes
    TNTsTunes Posts: 751
    heiney9 wrote: »
    That's a fair question and most of us have found our sweet spot in cables by experimenting.

    What do you feel comfortable paying? Not that wire quality is strictly dictated by $$. It follows for the most part, but like anything else there are excellent performers that punch higher than their typical price point.

    Something on the cheaper side that is excellent for it's price is Canare Star Quad 4S11. Typically bare, unterminated wire. But if you go to the Blue Jeans Cable website they will sell it terminated with whatever.

    Signal Cable has a couple great speaker cables as well as I/C's that perform well at their price point.

    Check out our own Heliptodoug (Douglas Cables) he makes some great cables too at a variety of price points.

    I personally have found my cables for life in MIT. They are spendy but are very much worth it (to the point I'm willing to pay), IMO.

    I recently added two more systems so now I have two 2.1 channel systems and two 2 channel systems. I have some lower end MIT interconnects in 2 of them the other two are a mixture of interconnects that I've acquired over the years. For speaker wires I have some Blue Jeans Canare 4S11 Cables and Belden 5000 cables, the others are using some twisted wires that came with some speakers and an unknown brand.

    I do like the sound of MIT cables, I was one of the members who did the MIT cable exchange a few years ago. They were nice. My budget won't allow much higher end cables then what I have. Basically I will upgrade them one or two cables at a time and rotate the ones I have around as I replace the unknown ones. It's just going to take time.

    Three of the systems have B&K amps, one has a Halo 5 pre w/2.3's, another has Parasound 2100 pre w/SRS 2's the third uses either CRS+'s, M7 series II's or SDA 2A's speakers along with a Sherbourn pre. The forth system has a Yamaha AVR and Energy speakers.

    I still need room treatments too...

    "Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
    a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."


  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    I used to be a skeptic too. But when I switched my main speaker wire on a very nice system, I heard the difference. The newer ones brought out the mids and highs. I'm a little hard of hearing in the high tweeter range, but I heard it and those wires are still being used. I wanted to switch back to the old ones just to do it before I buy some RD194's but things have been sidetracked for a long time. But that's on the list for this year.

    I don't have much money in these either. I also need to seriously upgrade my interconnects.

    Now the "Interconnects" world of cables will explode nowadays. More than it's already been.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • TNTsTunes
    TNTsTunes Posts: 751
    Tony M wrote: »
    I used to be a skeptic too. But when I switched my main speaker wire on a very nice system, I heard the difference. The newer ones brought out the mids and highs. I'm a little hard of hearing in the high tweeter range, but I heard it and those wires are still being used. I wanted to switch back to the old ones just to do it before I buy some RD194's but things have been sidetracked for a long time. But that's on the list for this year.

    I don't have much money in these either. I also need to seriously upgrade my interconnects.

    Now the "Interconnects" world of cables will explode nowadays. More than it's already been.

    I'm a little hard of hearing in the high tweeter range also. I like RDO's but I use somewhere between a .22ohm resistor to a jumper to replace the tweeter polyswitch. That way the tweeter runs a little more forward. It helps offset my hearing issue nicely, 198's sound great to me, some female voices just make me melt. 194's are still a nice improvement also.
    "Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
    a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."


  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    TNTsTunes wrote: »
    I just want to figure out a good economical speaker cable to use. I agree that cable makes a difference but it seems the cost factor increases dramatically and the improvement doesn't change as exponentially.

    Valid point Tim. Same can be said for speakers too or any other piece of gear. However, the cabling has to match up with the level of gear you have to get maximum results.

    In other words, having 5k speaker cables on a set of Monitor 7's isn't going to net you great results. Extreme example but you get the point. The same works in the opposite direction, signal cable on 5k speakers won't grant you the ability to hear what those speakers can do.....everything is relative.

    For the same reasons too that we upgrade cdp's or any other piece. There's always a perception of that weak link in ones system until you achieve the sound you like. Cabling is just another component, a piece of the puzzle, to get where you want to be sound wise.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    TNTsTunes wrote: »
    Tony M wrote: »
    I used to be a skeptic too. But when I switched my main speaker wire on a very nice system, I heard the difference. The newer ones brought out the mids and highs. I'm a little hard of hearing in the high tweeter range, but I heard it and those wires are still being used. I wanted to switch back to the old ones just to do it before I buy some RD194's but things have been sidetracked for a long time. But that's on the list for this year.

    I don't have much money in these either. I also need to seriously upgrade my interconnects.

    Now the "Interconnects" world of cables will explode nowadays. More than it's already been.

    I'm a little hard of hearing in the high tweeter range also. I like RDO's but I use somewhere between a .22ohm resistor to a jumper to replace the tweeter polyswitch. That way the tweeter runs a little more forward. It helps offset my hearing issue nicely, 198's sound great to me, some female voices just make me melt. 194's are still a nice improvement also.

    I've heard the RD-198's are the better tweeter but,

    I've also read on here that I can't use them on my Blade-Blade SDA-SRS2's. :#

    I've read where some guys wanted to try them anyway but never heard back from them on their threads. I missed a few years here, so maybe somebody has tried it anyway and left a response.

    Maybe some more advice from some veterans on which ones to get. I have a feeling I'm going to hear get the RD-194's again. I replaced one pr. of SDA-SRS2's with RD-194's and after 40+ hours, they seems to sound better and brighter. Not as bright as the sl-2000's though. Female voices were a lot better though. Sibilance was greatly reduced!

    Still, I'd love to try those RD-198's sometime in my life. :p
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,474
    RDO194 for the B/b. I believe inspiredsports did do the mod to use rdo198 but two board B/b speakers can be a lot of work to get it done.
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    RDO194 for the B/b. I believe inspiredsports did do the mod to use rdo198 but two board B/b speakers can be a lot of work to get it done.

    Thanks. ;)

    That's what I was afraid of. :(

    I don't want to invest a lot more than the tweeters and maybe the terminals on these. I have a pr. of Newform research R-645's that could use a cross-over upgrade for sure. They would be the ones I would do first if I get to that stage of getting back to spaciousness in the cave in a year or two.

    I might spring for the rod-194's and switch out that part mentioned above to get back a little more high range for my semi-thick eardrum issues. ;)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • teekay0007
    teekay0007 Posts: 2,289
    tonyb wrote: »
    In other words, having 5k speaker cables on a set of Monitor 7's isn't going to net you great results.

    Jeez, Tony, FIVE PAGES in and you tell me now? :o -calling the Cable Co. to cancel that Shunyata order!

  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 501
    Have you tried upgrading your components?
    kharp1 wrote: »
    HAHAHAHAHA, WHAT A BUNCH OF MORONS!!! Wire is wire is wire. I bought my Wirewirld SIlver Equinox because I thought the outside casing thing was cool. Plus, if times get tight I can melt the wire down and sell the silver. SUCKERS!!!

  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    You think I'm kidding? I brought the wires in here to work and put them in a old dutch oven and ran them through the paint ovens till they were separated...looks like I'm getting about $50 for the metal. Who's the fool now???
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    On a more serious, back on track note, I recently picked up a pair of Silnote Morpheus Reference II on the cheap off Audio Circle and was pleasantly and very surprised. I put them in place of the Wireworld Silver Equinox between the Joule and the Butler and felt they were at least equal to the Wireworld. I don't see them often pre owned, but, will keep an eye out in hopes of doing a complete secondary rig setup with them.
  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,116
    kharp1 wrote: »
    On a more serious, back on track note, I recently picked up a pair of Silnote Morpheus Reference II on the cheap off Audio Circle and was pleasantly and very surprised. I put them in place of the Wireworld Silver Equinox between the Joule and the Butler and felt they were at least equal to the Wireworld. I don't see them often pre owned, but, will keep an eye out in hopes of doing a complete secondary rig setup with them.

    I am using a couple osi myself and like then.
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,505
    tonyb wrote: »
    TNTsTunes wrote: »
    I just want to figure out a good economical speaker cable to use. I agree that cable makes a difference but it seems the cost factor increases dramatically and the improvement doesn't change as exponentially.

    Valid point Tim. Same can be said for speakers too or any other piece of gear. However, the cabling has to match up with the level of gear you have to get maximum results.

    In other words, having 5k speaker cables on a set of Monitor 7's isn't going to net you great results. Extreme example but you get the point. The same works in the opposite direction, signal cable on 5k speakers won't grant you the ability to hear what those speakers can do.....everything is relative.

    For the same reasons too that we upgrade cdp's or any other piece. There's always a perception of that weak link in ones system until you achieve the sound you like. Cabling is just another component, a piece of the puzzle, to get where you want to be sound wise.

    Just my2 cents

    I believe a $5000 speaker with signal cable will sound better than a $250 speaker with $5000 speaker cable.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    edited January 2018
    zomiz9msaz8b.png

    September 1979.

    Smoglifters.

    In retrospect, I remember those...
  • marvda1
    marvda1 Posts: 4,862
    kharp1 wrote: »
    On a more serious, back on track note, I recently picked up a pair of Silnote Morpheus Reference II on the cheap off Audio Circle and was pleasantly and very surprised. I put them in place of the Wireworld Silver Equinox between the Joule and the Butler and felt they were at least equal to the Wireworld. I don't see them often pre owned, but, will keep an eye out in hopes of doing a complete secondary rig setup with them.
    i had a pair of the silnotes and had to think long and hard before i sold them.
    i got them when they were cheap.

    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
    Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
    Puritan PSM156
  • Airplay355
    Airplay355 Posts: 4,298
    edited January 2018
    I’ve never been into cables. Mostly because I didn’t have money for nice stuff and also because I didn’t think it mattered. When I setup my HT I bought some Belden wire from Blue jeans cable. I only used it for the surrounds and center because I had monster cable and thought that was good enough. Got bored tonight and cut some new runs to replace the monster cable. I’m hooked. It definitely makes a difference. I don’t even know how much of an upgrade this really is but it sounds better, definitely better.

    Where I struggle is to know what’s an upgrade and what’s just paying more money. With speakers it’s easy, there are model groups and you know what will be an upgrade. Here, I just started out with the cheapest wire blue jeans had.

    This is a slippery slope >:)