Best power amp for LSIM 707's?

I have a pair of LSIM 707's and a Parasound A2100 preamp, and am looking for the best power amp to complement them for a broad range of music. I'm leaning toward the Parasound 2250, but wondering if I would hear the difference with an A21; does anyone have any experience comparing these two amps?
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Comments

  • cheeg
    cheeg Posts: 11
    The room is about 18' wide, 13' deep and 10' high.
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    Is A21 a better amp?? Yes, but you have to ask yourself "How much am I putting into this system overall".

    Do you have, or have you been looking for a suitable DAC for your sources?
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • DaveHo
    DaveHo Posts: 3,471
    There is no "best" anything in this hobby. Associated gear, room size, listening preferences all come into play. What I'm trying to say is, we need more info to help spend your money! :D
  • cheeg
    cheeg Posts: 11
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Is A21 a better amp?? Yes, but you have to ask yourself "How much am I putting into this system overall".

    Do you have, or have you been looking for a suitable DAC for your sources?

    Thanks for responding; both of your questions are good ones. As for the second question, no I haven't been looking for a DAC; I had assumed that I'd upgrade my low end cd/dvd player to a better unit, after getting the power amp in place. Wouldn't a higher end CD player have a good DAC built in?

    As for the first question, I'll start by saying that I didn't want to spend much more than $1000 for a power amp, and that's what the 2250 would cost. But I've wanted a really good audio system since I was a kid, and I'm in my late 60's now, so I doubt I'll be upgrading my amp again after this. If I'm really going to hear a substantial difference between the 2250 and the A21, I'll consider the extra cost, as I don't want to find myself a year or two later saying "this is good, but I really wish I'd spent that extra grand on the power amp..." If there were a way for me to compare the two amps with a comparable pair of speakers before buying, It would be a simple choice, but that doesn't seem to be possible in my area (Pasadena). the next best thing is to look for input from anyone who's listened to the two amps, or ideally been able to A-B them. Is there anyone like that out there?
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    Would you consider used? Here is an audio dealer that has one in silver in Cali. (assumed when you said Pasadena) Here on the forum us members have done a lot of buy sell trade on the used market and put the other coin in other upgrades.

    https://www.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-beautiful-2017-11-29-amplifiers


    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    Skip, he already has the preamp
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • cheeg
    cheeg Posts: 11
    DSkip wrote: »
    Have you considered the Parasound Halo Integrated? You can definitely do better with separates, but for an all in one package with the 707 it would be hard to beat. It also has a built-in DAC, though I would consider that an add-on rather than a cherished feature.

    The A23 is a solid amp that pairs well with them as well. The truth is, the world is your oyster and you can go down dozens of avenues depending on dozens of factors.

    Hi DSkip, thanks for your response. I just bought the A2100, so I'd rather not have to start by selling it; also, I haven't heard anything negative about it, so I doubt I'd be any better off with the Halo Integrated (although I've heard it's a great amp).

    As for the A23, I'm sure it's a good power amp; it's a John Curl design, and has a long track record. But the folks at Polk said not to use anything less than 150W/ch, so I thought the A23, at 125W/ch into 8ohms, would be a little underpowered. The 2250v2 has 275W/ch, but I don't think it's a John Curl design; do you have any thoughts on how the A23 would compare to the 2250?
  • cheeg
    cheeg Posts: 11
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Would you consider used? Here is an audio dealer that has one in silver in Cali. (assumed when you said Pasadena) Here on the forum us members have done a lot of buy sell trade on the used market and put the other coin in other upgrades.

    https://www.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-beautiful-2017-11-29-amplifiers


    Thanks TX, I'm considering that one, although I wonder why the seller only gave its condition an 8/10. So far, I havent' heard anyone on this blog say anything (good or bad) about the 2500v2; am I missing something?
  • cheeg
    cheeg Posts: 11
    That should have said 2250, not 2500; sorry about the typo...
  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    Parasound makes terrific gear, you can't go wrong with either of those amps.

    Welcome to Club Polk.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
  • Earthy
    Earthy Posts: 488
    I have been running my SDA 2.3's with a P3 A21 Halo combo for 7 years. Really love the setup.
    Polk Audio SDA SRS 2.3TL
    Parasound Halo A21
    Parasound Halo P3

    Home theater
    Polk LSiM 707, 706c, 703, 705
    Polk Blackstone TL3 for height
    SVS PB12-ISD Sub
    Denon AVR-X6400h
    Parasound Halo A51
    LG OLED65B7A
    Sony UBPX800
    Logitech Harmony Elite
    PC LSiM 703
    Spare LSIM 702 and 706c

    Home Theater #2
    Polk Audio LS70, CS350LS, LSF/X, S4
    Onkyo TX-NR808



  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    A2100 vs. A21 for $1000? I think you made the right choice as it might be hard to find an A21 for $1000. Also, if this is going to be your last amp purchase as you stated then.... spending more than $1000 might not be worth it as that 2100 is a beast of an amp. Unless you can find a deal on a set of brutal monoblock amps. That's the one thing I want to try one day....but I'm so far behind. I'll probably be in my 60's before that happens. In my dreams I would love to have a tube set (Rogue Audio M120, M180, Cary Audio,etc), class A/B set (Parasound JC1, Pass Labs, McIntosh,Odyssey Audio Khartago Monos, Schitt Vidar, etc ) and, Class D Set (Hypex, ICEpower, Bel Canto REF1000M) to play with and compare the different tech.

    I guess everyone has a dream. In the end, just getting to the point of a solid 2 ch system set correct in whatever available room would be special. I would be happy with an A21 or a big McCormack, etc.
    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
  • Kurt300
    Kurt300 Posts: 302
    cheeg wrote: »
    I have a pair of LSIM 707's and a Parasound A2100 preamp, and am looking for the best power amp to complement them for a broad range of music. I'm leaning toward the Parasound 2250, but wondering if I would hear the difference with an A21; does anyone have any experience comparing these two amps?

    I’ve heard both amps on 707s. If it’s all about music, I personally would spend the $1400-1500 for the A21 (used, made within the last 3-5 years). The 2250 will be as clear and dimensional as you need for home theater, though.

  • Earthy
    Earthy Posts: 488
    Kurt300 wrote: »
    cheeg wrote: »
    I have a pair of LSIM 707's and a Parasound A2100 preamp, and am looking for the best power amp to complement them for a broad range of music. I'm leaning toward the Parasound 2250, but wondering if I would hear the difference with an A21; does anyone have any experience comparing these two amps?

    I’ve heard both amps on 707s. If it’s all about music, I personally would spend the $1400-1500 for the A21 (used, made within the last 3-5 years). The 2250 will be as clear and dimensional as you need for home theater, though.

    I am curious why an A21 made 3-5 years ago vs one made 8 or so would be a problem.
    Polk Audio SDA SRS 2.3TL
    Parasound Halo A21
    Parasound Halo P3

    Home theater
    Polk LSiM 707, 706c, 703, 705
    Polk Blackstone TL3 for height
    SVS PB12-ISD Sub
    Denon AVR-X6400h
    Parasound Halo A51
    LG OLED65B7A
    Sony UBPX800
    Logitech Harmony Elite
    PC LSiM 703
    Spare LSIM 702 and 706c

    Home Theater #2
    Polk Audio LS70, CS350LS, LSF/X, S4
    Onkyo TX-NR808



  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,517
    Earthy wrote: »
    Kurt300 wrote: »
    cheeg wrote: »
    I have a pair of LSIM 707's and a Parasound A2100 preamp, and am looking for the best power amp to complement them for a broad range of music. I'm leaning toward the Parasound 2250, but wondering if I would hear the difference with an A21; does anyone have any experience comparing these two amps?

    I’ve heard both amps on 707s. If it’s all about music, I personally would spend the $1400-1500 for the A21 (used, made within the last 3-5 years). The 2250 will be as clear and dimensional as you need for home theater, though.

    I am curious why an A21 made 3-5 years ago vs one made 8 or so would be a problem.

    The capacitors in the amps do have a lifespan, its just normally pretty long....

    My B&K 200.5 is about 10 years old if I had to guess and still works fine, however eventually the caps need to be replaced.

    This was a MUCH bigger problem with older amps (Carver, Phase linear, etc) because the caps they used back then are beyond their lifespan at this point.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • Kurt300 wrote: »
    cheeg wrote: »
    I have a pair of LSIM 707's and a Parasound A2100 preamp, and am looking for the best power amp to complement them for a broad range of music. I'm leaning toward the Parasound 2250, but wondering if I would hear the difference with an A21; does anyone have any experience comparing these two amps?

    I’ve heard both amps on 707s. If it’s all about music, I personally would spend the $1400-1500 for the A21 (used, made within the last 3-5 years). The 2250 will be as clear and dimensional as you need for home theater, though.

    The 2250 lacks the current capacity per channel that the A21 has.

    A21 60 amps per channel
    2250 45 amps per channel

    In comparison the smaller A23 amp has 45 amps per channel
    "Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
    a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."


  • oldrocker
    oldrocker Posts: 2,590
    I have not done a side by side test of those 2 amps.

    I do have a 2250 and the 2100, I'm very happy with the sound, I use it with a variety of vintage polk speakers.

    FWIW, the 2250 gives me plenty of power for my needs and sounds good for my aged ears.

    I almost went with the A21 instead as I was under the self impression it was what I needed when in fact the 2250 works great for me.

    Parasound makes good gear in my opinion.

    Audio Advisor is where I got mine, they were easy to work with and if I had wanted to, I could have sent the 2250 back and got the A21 instead "not sure if they do that anymore".

    Disclaimer: I don't work for Parasound or AA and the above info is just in my humble opinion...

  • Earthy
    Earthy Posts: 488
    I got my A21 almost exactly 7 years ago. Its lightly used hope it lasts like the 2.3's.
    Polk Audio SDA SRS 2.3TL
    Parasound Halo A21
    Parasound Halo P3

    Home theater
    Polk LSiM 707, 706c, 703, 705
    Polk Blackstone TL3 for height
    SVS PB12-ISD Sub
    Denon AVR-X6400h
    Parasound Halo A51
    LG OLED65B7A
    Sony UBPX800
    Logitech Harmony Elite
    PC LSiM 703
    Spare LSIM 702 and 706c

    Home Theater #2
    Polk Audio LS70, CS350LS, LSF/X, S4
    Onkyo TX-NR808



  • hlshure
    hlshure Posts: 48
    Not to hijack this thread, but along the same lines, I’ve read conflicting opinions about getting a 3 channel amp for home theater use (L/R/C) vs just getting a 2 channel and connecting that to the L/R and letting the AVR handle the center and surrounds. My setup is a Yamaha rx-a 2070, LSiM 707’s for the front, 706 center, and Polk OWM 3’s for surround. Just got my setup a few weeks back and I’m toying with the idea of an amp, even though the system sounds good to me now, but I can’t figure out whether I should focus on a 2 or 3 channel. Room is 18x13x13 and I tend to listen to movies between -10 and -20db. Also, don’t know if it matters but I’ll be upgrading my 5.1 to a 5.1.4 in this weekend.
    Running 5.1.4, Yamaha RX-A 2070, Parasound A31, Polk LSiM 707 (Fronts), Polk LSiM 706 (Center), Polk OWM3 (Surround), Polk TL3 (Atmos), HSU VTF-2 MK4, Epson 5030UB, Silver Ticket 110"
  • hlshure
    hlshure Posts: 48
    Bump! Any advice/recommendations regarding my post above? Trying to stay around the $1k mark or less. Thanks in advance.
    Running 5.1.4, Yamaha RX-A 2070, Parasound A31, Polk LSiM 707 (Fronts), Polk LSiM 706 (Center), Polk OWM3 (Surround), Polk TL3 (Atmos), HSU VTF-2 MK4, Epson 5030UB, Silver Ticket 110"
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,560
    Personally I would go for the three channel, as the center channel is in my opinion arguably the most important and heavily used in a HT setup.
    hlshure wrote: »
    Bump! Any advice/recommendations regarding my post above? Trying to stay around the $1k mark or less. Thanks in advance.

  • hlshure
    hlshure Posts: 48
    edited January 2018
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Personally I would go for the three channel, as the center channel is in my opinion arguably the most important and heavily used in a HT setup.

    I was leaning in that direction. From what I’ve read Parasound seems the way to go over Emotiva but the A31 is out of my price range and the XPA3, or Emotiva in general, has gotten mixed reviews here on the forum. Any suggestions? And how much difference do you think I will really hear in a HT application between the Yamaha and a dedicated amp? I ask because it seems that most people speak of the amazing improvements in their music but I don’t hear as much about Home Theater.
    Running 5.1.4, Yamaha RX-A 2070, Parasound A31, Polk LSiM 707 (Fronts), Polk LSiM 706 (Center), Polk OWM3 (Surround), Polk TL3 (Atmos), HSU VTF-2 MK4, Epson 5030UB, Silver Ticket 110"
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,560
    edited January 2018
    I don't personally have experience running a dedicated amp in a HT environment, so I'm probably not the best person to ask.

    I looked up the specs on your Yammy receiver and it looks to be no slouch. I would imagine things are sounding pretty good as is right now. Edit: I just read some more specs on it and yeah that thing looks sweet.

    I think were a dedicated amp would help you is with dynamic swings and sudden intense transients. Think gunshots, explosions, glass breaking, etc. This is where the headroom of a dedicated power amplifier would be helpful. Because during these scenes, your surrounds are probably going to be fed with a decent amount of signal as well. So the AVR will be trying to power several channels simultaneously, which will drop it's available power output and increase distortion.
    hlshure wrote: »
    I was leaning in that direction. From what I’ve read Parasound seems the way to go over Emotiva but the A31 is out of my price range and the XPA3, or Emotiva in general, has gotten mixed reviews here on the forum. Any suggestions? And how much difference do you think I will really hear in a HT application between the Yamaha and a dedicated amp? I ask because it seems that most people speak of the amazing improvements in their music but I don’t hear as much about Home Theater.

  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    I have the A31, 2250, and XPA3. I had a bad bout of rapid an incessant upgradeitis and don't remember what I had when I got the 707's. I imagine that the 2250 would be fine though.
  • hlshure
    hlshure Posts: 48
    Clipdat wrote: »
    I don't personally have experience running a dedicated amp in a HT environment, so I'm probably not the best person to ask.

    I looked up the specs on your Yammy receiver and it looks to be no slouch. I would imagine things are sounding pretty good as is right now. Edit: I just read some more specs on it and yeah that thing looks sweet.

    I think were a dedicated amp would help you is with dynamic swings and sudden intense transients. Think gunshots, explosions, glass breaking, etc. This is where the headroom of a dedicated power amplifier would be helpful. Because during these scenes, your surrounds are probably going to be fed with a decent amount of signal as well. So the AVR will be trying to power several channels simultaneously, which will drop it's available power output and increase distortion.
    hlshure wrote: »
    I was leaning in that direction. From what I’ve read Parasound seems the way to go over Emotiva but the A31 is out of my price range and the XPA3, or Emotiva in general, has gotten mixed reviews here on the forum. Any suggestions? And how much difference do you think I will really hear in a HT application between the Yamaha and a dedicated amp? I ask because it seems that most people speak of the amazing improvements in their music but I don’t hear as much about Home Theater.

    Thanks @Clipdat. That helps me understand what the amp would add for HT. The 2070 does sound good but I just keep reading about how an amp just brings things to a whole new level and like @afterburnt I have a bad case of upgraditus myself. Lol.
    Running 5.1.4, Yamaha RX-A 2070, Parasound A31, Polk LSiM 707 (Fronts), Polk LSiM 706 (Center), Polk OWM3 (Surround), Polk TL3 (Atmos), HSU VTF-2 MK4, Epson 5030UB, Silver Ticket 110"
  • hlshure
    hlshure Posts: 48
    afterburnt wrote: »
    I have the A31, 2250, and XPA3. I had a bad bout of rapid an incessant upgradeitis and don't remember what I had when I got the 707's. I imagine that the 2250 would be fine though.

    What are you running right now and is HT or music your main application? How does your current setup sound and is there anything lacking in your opinion?
    Running 5.1.4, Yamaha RX-A 2070, Parasound A31, Polk LSiM 707 (Fronts), Polk LSiM 706 (Center), Polk OWM3 (Surround), Polk TL3 (Atmos), HSU VTF-2 MK4, Epson 5030UB, Silver Ticket 110"
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited January 2018
    hlshure wrote: »
    Thanks @Clipdat. That helps me understand what the amp would add for HT. The 2070 does sound good but I just keep reading about how an amp just brings things to a whole new level and like @afterburnt I have a bad case of upgraditus myself. Lol.
    We are not telling you anything that you don't already know. The only reason to have home theater system in the first place is to take advantage of the SUPER DEMANDING UNLIMITED LOUD -TO-SOFT ULTRA DYNAMIC, ULTRA BASS, ULTRA EFFECTS, ULTRA CENTER CHANNEL FOCUSED, MULTI-CHANNEL SOUNDTRACK OF FILMS RELEASED OVERTHE LAST 20-25 YEARS !!!!!

    A top AVR will do fine for some driving easy to drive speakers. However, for those looking to have power reserve on tap to produce clean, startling full effects up to reference levels that mimics or tops the best cinemas out there, high current capable amplifiers as well as high efficiency speakers are the tools some use to get there.

    Choose the tools that suite YOUR taste and budget! These guys are serious about their HT!!! Decide how far YOU want to go!

    ati_at4000.jpg

    BW1.jpg

    54634d1401726005-my-new-setup-front-wall.jpg
    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    ^^^^^^^

    THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!

    My kind of set-ups. The built-in one for sure!
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    I bought a Yamaha Surround decoder the first year anybody came out with one. I was onboard with the HT idea from day 1.

    And I've been enjoying movies here at home for 3/4 of my life. Even TV now has awesome sound effects that just blow me away and wonder how many millions of people don't hear what I'm hearing. I know some don't care but I sure do.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    Tony M wrote: »
    Even TV now has awesome sound effects that just blow me away and wonder how many millions of people don't hear what I'm hearing. I know some don't care but I sure do.
    Dude! Folks watching Hawaii Five-0, Game of Thrones, Netflix, etc are missing out if they don't at least have a soundbar and a sub. Take it up to five channels and the better it gets! Heck, just the other day running just the front LCR in my house the Mrs. said she heard sounds off to the far side and behind her.

    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2