My Glorious Day With Pioneer Customer Service

2

Comments

  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,474

    I went into some detail saying that I had followed the example of other BDP-09FD owners who had this problem: found the part at a Chinese electronics supplier and replaced it myself.

    In light of this, your "advice" makes no sense whatsoever.

    Good luck getting your BD player fixed. Even if the repairs do not work out, that unit should still make a very stylish hood ornament or even a boat anchor for your bass boat. :)

    You ever been to west Virginia?

  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,032
    At this point I'm basically ready to throw in the Towel.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,707
    In regards to 4K vs Pioneer Kuro sets, I agree with you.

    I had my socks knocked off when I saw a Pioneer Elite plasma set showing flyover footage on a secondary digital channel from a local PBS station. It wasn't even the resolution that was impressive. It was the fluidity with the way the picture moved unlike many of the cheaper sets. It was natural. It wasn't like watching TV at all. It was like looking out a window.

    The only thing that has come close to that was Panasonic's Viera plasmas which were essentially the same thing as the Kuros since they used the Kuro software on Panasonic displays which they were building for Pioneer anyway. Just before Pioneer got out of the TV business. The Panasonic processing isn't quite up to the same speed but the picture quality is just as good.

    The only TVs that have knocked my socks off like that first Elite TV I saw are the newer Sony Bravias. So much so that I have their no-bells-and-whistles 4K set hanging in my basement. For what I paid for it, it is impressive and I've been pleased with it. IT even up-converts lower res signals very well. So much so that I can watch YouTube or Vimeo videos in impressive clarity on it. When you get actual 4K material to watch on it it's stunning.
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,760
    mantis wrote: »
    At this point I'm basically ready to throw in the Towel.

    Specifically, what are you throwing in the towel about?
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,116
    BlueFox wrote: »
    The following incident is based on an actually true historical event and is, in part, autobiographical:

    "Knock, Knock."
    "Who's there?"
    "Boo."
    "Boo who?"
    "Ha ha, I made you cry!"
    "No you didn't!"
    "Did to!"
    "Did not!"
    "Did to!!"
    "Did not, did not, did not!!!"
    "I'm crying because my 15 year old Toshiba DVD player just croaked! It was only 14 years out of warranty!! There was a known issue with that player and Toshiba should have warned me that it was susceptible to old age."

    "That's not true, everyone knows mechanical devices from Toshiba never wear out and break down."
    "They do to break down and wear out."
    "Do not."
    "Do to."

    "What's even worse, I called Toshiba customer service and their rep was rude to me."
    "Was not!"
    "Was to!!"
    "He even sent me a rude Email that began with, "Lol, you've gotta be kidding, a 15 year old DVD player and you want us to fix it for free? What are you smokin'?"
    "He then offered to sell me a refurb DVD player at full retail price!"

    Fortunately, I did survive the death of my 15 year old Toshiba DVD player a month ago and will be getting either an Oppo or a Sony BD player in a few months. Until then, I have my computer DVD drive as a back up so life goes on. I normally don't cry when my old stuff breaks, but that Toshiba was cute and very easy to use. It even played CD-Rs! B)

    What can I say about the poster that the post itself doesn't already say? LOL.

    Really, way out of line.
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    The following incident is based on an actually true historical event and is, in part, autobiographical:

    "Knock, Knock."
    "Who's there?"
    "Boo."
    "Boo who?"
    "Ha ha, I made you cry!"
    "No you didn't!"
    "Did to!"
    "Did not!"
    "Did to!!"
    "Did not, did not, did not!!!"
    "I'm crying because my 15 year old Toshiba DVD player just croaked! It was only 14 years out of warranty!! There was a known issue with that player and Toshiba should have warned me that it was susceptible to old age."

    "That's not true, everyone knows mechanical devices from Toshiba never wear out and break down."
    "They do to break down and wear out."
    "Do not."
    "Do to."

    "What's even worse, I called Toshiba customer service and their rep was rude to me."
    "Was not!"
    "Was to!!"
    "He even sent me a rude Email that began with, "Lol, you've gotta be kidding, a 15 year old DVD player and you want us to fix it for free? What are you smokin'?"
    "He then offered to sell me a refurb DVD player at full retail price!"

    Fortunately, I did survive the death of my 15 year old Toshiba DVD player a month ago and will be getting either an Oppo or a Sony BD player in a few months. Until then, I have my computer DVD drive as a back up so life goes on. I normally don't cry when my old stuff breaks, but that Toshiba was cute and very easy to use. It even played CD-Rs! B)

    Once again you missed the mark. This thread isn't about a player out of warranty, it's about customer service. Ray could easily toss the 09 and buy a new one. Pioneer did not steer him to the parts he needed, he had to do that on his own.

    A good example would be Polk speakers, vintage. If you need a part, they may or may not have it, but they don't talk you into LSIM's while your trying to fix SDA's.

    While nobody expects a company to keep paying for parts on legacy products....out of warranty yet, they can at least steer you to where to get them. That's called servicing the customer, building brand loyalty, making the customer happy even though the company didn't gain anything financially. To me, that's Ray's complaint, not that Pioneer wouldn't pay for it.

    Ray,

    Not sure the car analogy is relevant here. Car makers are held under law to issue known problems and correct them. Electronic makers are not. Only in the rare situations where a known problem is so wide and frequent will they issue some sort of statement to address it.

    There is, in my mind anyway, certain things in audio to spend the coin on, and some things you shouldn't, that are throw aways. BR players is one of them....HT receivers another. Especially seeing that most things today are built for a shorter life cycle than what we older dudes are accustomed to. That goes for most all things beyond audio too, like appliances.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,346
    nbrowser wrote: »
    DK, your story kind of reminds me of my glorious time with Onkyo customer service. It was so bad I finally said screw it to my Onkyo AVR and from there on in.

    Onkyo ****** (self censorship) me over in 1995 with bad customer service on one of their receivers. Haven't given them any business since and recommend other brands.

  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    edited June 2017
    Emlyn wrote: »
    nbrowser wrote: »
    DK, your story kind of reminds me of my glorious time with Onkyo customer service. It was so bad I finally said screw it to my Onkyo AVR and from there on in.

    Onkyo ****** (self censorship) me over in 1995 with bad customer service on one of their receivers. Haven't given them any business since and recommend other brands.


    ......and that friends, is the value in good CS. ;)
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,760
    tonyb wrote: »
    Not sure the car analogy is relevant here. Car makers are held under law to issue known problems and correct them. Electronic makers are not. Only in the rare situations where a known problem is so wide and frequent will they issue some sort of statement to address it.

    Car makers are also required by law to maintain parts inventories for ten years. There are some that go beyond this.

    Automotive service bulletins typically have an expiration date and after that it is up to the dealer's/manufacturer's discretion as to whether they want to accommodate a customer after the warranty/extended warranty period ends. In my case with the cracking paint, the warranty was extended for only an additional year after the initial 3 year warranty expired. This was deemed a reasonable amount of time because any paint problems would normally have occurred well before four years had passed. However, this car was my second vehicle and was a weekend toy that I kept garaged 95% of the time. It didn't have daily exposure to sun and weather and the problem took longer to manifest itself. The dealer and manufacturer had no legal obligation to repaint my car but they understood the extenuating circumstance and took care of me anyway.

    This is similar to the issue with my Pioneer BR player not becoming evident until 8 years had passed due to seldom use.

    On another note, guys, please stop quoting troll comments. The best way to address this behavior is to report it.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,760
    Emlyn wrote: »
    Onkyo ****** (self censorship) me over in 1995 with bad customer service on one of their receivers. Haven't given them any business since and recommend other brands.

    I was surprised to receive a reply from Onkyo CS after contacting Pioneer's support website. The contact info at the bottom of the CS agent's emails said:

    "Thank you for contacting Onkyo and Integra USA Product Support"

    I then googled "Pioneer Onkyo" and found out about Pioneer's 2014 selloff.

    Aside from this unpleasantness, my experiences with Onkyo Integra products has been positive. I owned two Onkyo Integra DX-7500 CD players, purchased in 1989 and 2002, (both sold to raise funds for other toys). I currently have two Onkyo Integra TA-2800 cassette decks in storage.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,760
    DSkip wrote: »
    Like others have pointed out, you have to start looking at these companies post 2009 to get a feel for who they are today. Unfortunately most of the big players in the electronics side have thrown the CS to the side, but some seem to have thrown it further than others.

    Well, that's the thing: since 2009, and really, since 2006, my home electronics purchases shifted mostly toward U.S., Canadian, and British manufacturers high end brands (Pass Labs, dCS, Bryston, AudioQuest, PS Audio, Parasound) and away from the Japanese mass market brands (Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Yamaha).
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,474
    On another note, guys, please stop quoting troll comments. The best way to address this behavior is to report it.

    yep and have been playing the part. it's beyond ridiculous at this point.

  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    During and after the housing market crash...Elite which was a signed contract dealer only product went public....understandably it was feast or famine. I used to be competitive in Polk, Pioneer, Samsung, Sony etc

    Housing crash really screwed all that up.
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    During and after the housing market crash...Elite which was a signed contract dealer only product went public....understandably it was feast or famine. I used to be competitive in Polk, Pioneer, Samsung, Sony etc

    Housing crash really screwed all that up.

    Yep, and it will happen again. Given a choice to close your doors or merge, most decided to merge to stay afloat. Crap happens.....and I think the Japan brands are living on reputations of their vintage stuff also.

    I try to imagine what products today will be the sought after vintage products of tomorrow. What offers build quality, function, and excellent sound quality. With the pace of technology changing, stuff becomes a legacy product a lot quicker than the old days.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    edited June 2017
    On the other hand -- one could buy a brand new 2A3 direct heat audio triode in the 1930s (date of introduction: 1932, if the internet is to be believed), and one maystill buy a brand new 2A3 today.

    An RCA 2A3 was $1.75 in 1935 (source: www.alliedcatalogs.com):

    016.jpg

    Using an inflation calculator (e.g., https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl)

    $1.75 in 1935, adjusted for (CPI) inflation, would be $31.46 today.
    A "Sino" brand (essentially generic) 2A3 at tubedepot today is $39.98
    https://www.tubedepot.com/products/sino-2a3-power-vacuum-tube


    9598891935_a939d46f8a_b.jpg2A3spnbox by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    On the other hand (I guess I am up to three hands now!), the price of, say, vintage Peerless, Chicago, Acrosound (etc.) iron, Altec loudspeaker components, Western Electric capacitors (pretty much anything Western Electric), etc. has far outstripped inflation. The technology used in those hifi products was, is, and likely will long remain both viable and in demand.

    EDIT: in fairness, a NOS single plate 1930s RCA 2A3 would fetch a lot more than $39.98 ;)
  • mrloren
    mrloren Posts: 2,454
    Well for the most part good CS is hit and miss these day's.

    As Pioneer saying what they did was just wrong, plus trying to push a new product on the customer rather than giving him a way to fix it is not right. Telling the customer that they have illegal copies is more than rude. I own over a thousand DVD and blu-ray's, I back everyone up.

    When I need a new grill for the CL CSI5 I called Polk and was driving to vista that same day to pick it up.

    When my Delta table saw had an out of box dented wing, Delta was giving me the run around, Lowes made it right and pulled a wing out of another box for me.

    My Sony ES had the dreaded heat issue I had to sent it to NY on my dime, 3 weeks later I received an email saying the part is back ordered and it will be 4-6 weeks. I called the Sony ES CS in San Diego. The guy I spoke to knew me from the CRT days, new in box 5700ES the next day

    Now Nissan and the dreaded timing chain on my Maxima that was a BBB nightmare.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.
    Family Room:LG QNED80 75", Onkyo RZ50 Emotiva XPA3 GEN3 Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM. Main: Polk LsiM 705Center: Polk LSiM 704CFront High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT Surrounds: Polk S15 Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
    Bed Room; Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270Main: Polk Signature S20Center: Polk Signature S35Rear: Polk R15 Sub: SVS SB2000
    Working Warehouse; Yamaha A-S301, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc Plok TSX550T SVS PB2000 Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • cvc
    cvc Posts: 65
    I purchased the top of the line Elite Laser disc player back in the day.. Was like $1,200 in the late eighties.. This player, (maybe DV-09 or something similar) was the talk of the audio mags.. I bought one..

    Lasted maybe 2 years and broke down.. Sent it for repair and lasted a year before another breakdown.. After that repair it survived only one more year and I was done..

    Shake my head every time I see a Pioneer Elite product..
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    Okay. My turn for a customer service horror story. Back around 2007 or so, I purchased from Crutchfield the second best Sony DVD/SACD player, the DVPNS3100ES. At that time, it was an expensive purchase for me. However, since it was an ES, it had a five year warranty, and that made the purchase easier.

    After 2-3 months the video stopped displaying. Since I had it for a while I decided to use the warranty, and have Sony repair it. After getting the RMA, I boxed it up in the original box, and sent it to Laredo TX for repair.

    A few days later, Sony contacts me and says they will not do a warranty repair since someone had opened it up and tampered with it. I explained that I bought it new, the box was factory sealed, and I hadn't done anything to it. Too bad, they said. Pay us what you paid for it, and we will repair it. After a bunch of back and forth I finally said just send it back to me.

    While I had sent it back in the original box, it came back to me in a large box and single wrapped in bubble paper. That did nothing to prevent it from bouncing around in the oversized box. I was P.O.ed.

    After I calmed down I contacted Crutchfield and they said return it for an exchange. I can't tell you how much I appreciated that, but I have always wondered what would have happened if it were three years old versus three months.

    While I did recently buy a Sony TV, Sony is still on my badmouth and boycott list.

    https://www.amazon.com/Sony-DVPNS3100ES-Super-Audio-Player/dp/B000CRPS76
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,704
    I'm surprised someone hasn't gone postal on that Sony place in Laredo. I've never heard of anyone having a good experience with them.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,704
    As for Pioneer Elite products, my AVR and Blu-Ray player have been bullet proof, so I haven't needed to test their repair service.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Unforrunately my BPD-09FD is no longer playing Blu Rays as of mid to late 2017 and I certainly did not get much from this exhorbitantly priced unit. The lag when loading was bad enough but now I really do not know if I want to send this to Pioneer or just get an Oppo unit. It makes me definitely question Pioneer and still feel that like cars there should be something equivalent to a recall due to the many customers that are having difficulty with this heavy paper weight.



  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,346
    My guess is the 09FD is several years out of warranty. Sucks to have it as a 32lb brick considering how expnsive it was originally. The value of the old flagship models from the big brands plummeted dramatically over time.

    Personally, I would either use it as a CD player or sell it on Ebay for parts as not working and move on to a 4K Oppo.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    edited January 2018
    You know -- Kuro strikes me as a really odd name for a brand/component.
    It's awfully similar to the word kuru.

    Kuru is a really interesting disease -- it's one of the transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (like "mad cow disease and Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease). Kuru is caused by eating the brains of infected individuals (the infection caused by deformed proteins called prions). Not the kind of tie-in I'd want for my product, but maybe I am just not sufficiently hip and happening.

    https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001379.htm
  • "Kuro" seems to be Lithuanian for "fuel".
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,346
    Kuro in Japanese means black and refers either to a. The color black (is that even a color?) that Pioneer plasma tv sets could display really well or b. The image a $2200 Pioneer blu ray player puts out when it stops working right.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    Emlyn wrote: »
    Kuro in Japanese means black and refers either to a. The color black (is that even a color?) that Pioneer plasma tv sets could display really well or b. The image a $2200 Pioneer blu ray player puts out when it stops working right.

    If black isn't a color -- than why can you buy black paint?!

    Hey...

    wait a minute...

    ;)


  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,517
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Emlyn wrote: »
    Kuro in Japanese means black and refers either to a. The color black (is that even a color?) that Pioneer plasma tv sets could display really well or b. The image a $2200 Pioneer blu ray player puts out when it stops working right.

    If black isn't a color -- than why can you buy black paint?!

    Hey...

    wait a minute...

    ;)


    Your not buying black paint, your buying paint that doesnt include any pigments of Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo or Violet. :smile:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)