CABLE TALK??

After all these years, why is it that cable talk has to go south? not so much here lately but other audio talk that may be on Facebook or what have you that I might get my read on. it baffles me how many people are bothered how others spend or don't spend their money..

This is in no way to stir the pot here about it, I was just doing some reading and there must be 50 haters on high end cable, and they get ugly like it used to here..

I just don't get all the energy and hatred when there is talk about cables, it sure seems to be worse than talking about religion or politics...
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Comments

  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,505
    edited January 2018
    It’s a few things.

    People don’t find the value in paying a premium for wire.

    People don’t bother to try premium wire.

    People aren’t open to challenging their preconceived notions.

    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,952
    edited January 2018
    Fine discrimination takes time, effort, and money to develop, whether that be food, wine, music, art, anything involving sense perception. Tony has it right, most of us don’t have the time or money to really develop fine discrimination. And yes, social media just means everyone’s a critic, even when they have never even tried to develop their palates.
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Joey_V wrote: »
    It’s a few things.

    People don’t find the value in paying a premium for wire.

    People don’t bother to try premium wire.

    People aren’t open to challenging their preconceived notions.

    LOL...YA know, it wasn't long ago you were one of those people. Glad you finally saw the light. :)
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,505
    tonyb wrote: »
    Joey_V wrote: »
    It’s a few things.

    People don’t find the value in paying a premium for wire.

    People don’t bother to try premium wire.

    People aren’t open to challenging their preconceived notions.

    LOL...YA know, it wasn't long ago you were one of those people. Glad you finally saw the light. :)

    I know... but I’m happy I saw the light. I was really really REALLY anti-cables.

    Now I caress my AQ Wels.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Joey_V wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    Joey_V wrote: »
    It’s a few things.

    People don’t find the value in paying a premium for wire.

    People don’t bother to try premium wire.

    People aren’t open to challenging their preconceived notions.

    LOL...YA know, it wasn't long ago you were one of those people. Glad you finally saw the light. :)

    I know... but I’m happy I saw the light. I was really really REALLY anti-cables.

    Now I caress my AQ Wels.

    I would too if I could afford them. Though now that you said that, should you ever offer them up for sale, please state you totally disinfected them. ;)
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • tonyp063
    tonyp063 Posts: 1,044
    I think what bothers me the most is the unwillingness of some to even open their minds to the fact that their preconceived notions might just be incorrect.
    But then, I generally abhor willful ignorance.

    This doesn't just apply to cables, but that's flame-war fuel for a different forum.

    Will I be able to afford AQ Wels? Never. But that doesn't prevent me from *learning* about them; why some like them; what they may offer, etc.

    That way, when I have a purchase decision to make I can have some intelligent questions to ask and an understanding of the basic concepts around what better cables may, or may not offer *me*.
    Then I can effectively narrow purchase decisions based upon my known tastes & garnered knowledge.

    "A closed mind has no room for an original thought"

    Indeed, that brush can broadly paint most audio choices.

  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,559
    The MIT shotgun speaker and IC cable demo that was on the forum several years ago was pretty eye opening regarding what higher end cables can bring to the table.
  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,834
    It would be nice to have a thread where we could just talk cables/wire without the drama.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Clipdat wrote: »
    The MIT shotgun speaker and IC cable demo that was on the forum several years ago was pretty eye opening regarding what higher end cables can bring to the table.

    Good point, and we had to drag people to participate in it. Many had no interest, so it became a matter of....those that don't know, don't know.

    We like to say hearing is believing, or not believing, depending. Point is and always was....ya have to try things for yourself before passing judgements.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    edited January 2018
    I have trouble with pseudo-science (more to the point, pseudo-physics). Some nugget of actual physics will be used as a jumping off point for -- imaginative nonsense.

    Spoiler alert: the internet is full of such things! (gasp?!) There's like perpetual
    motion machines
    and free energy and other such doo-doo out there.

    Now, I am not saying that the geometry, materials of construction, etc. cannot matter when it comes to cabling. They certainly can. Heck, they do. I am also not saying that different cables cannot alter the sound of a hifi system. They can (and do).

    but...

    It's when just some of the crazy theory that sounds technical and scientific (but is actually just drivel) gets associated with some of the designs -- presumably in the service of marketing. That gets my goat. :#

    To me, the perversion of genuine scientific principles and knowledge in service of pseudo-science is a big issue nowadays... but that's another matter entirely. :|


  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,521
    Anyone with some knowledge of electronics should understand that wire is a component, just like a resistor, inductor, transistor, etc; and is subject to having an effect on the signal. The question is, how significant?
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • A few years ago I was on the fence, not any more!!
    Yamaha RXA1030, Yamaha CD-S2100, Yamaha AS-2200, Bluesound node 2i
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    Polk SDA 1C modded
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    Kimber 8TC
    Sony 55" Bravia
    Wish list SVS sub

  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    edited January 2018
    I think the mods should start such a thread, or sticky it, with warnings that it's for open, intelligent discussion and blatant trolling will get you shunned , or, suspended for x amount of time. I typically avoid such discussions due to the inevitable angry troll that wants to opine after trying 2 entry level cables/wires and noticing no difference on his/her entry level theater-in-a-box system. Would love a place to discuss what and how a product affects my system, as well as what others have found.

    I recently was in need of a set of interconnects after getting back in to vinyl. Wasn't sure if I wanted to pour a ton of money in to it (TOO LATE!) so I was looking for a pre-owned set for reasonable coin. I picked up a set of Silnote Morpheus and was surprised at what I found. They performed equally as well as the Wireworld Silver Eclipse. Price on the secondary market when you can find them, is very accessible.
  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,484
    Without having read the whole thread, I will respond with one word (with an explanation):

    Jealousy.

    Jealousy that others can spend money on cables that some may not be able to afford. Jealousy that others can hear what some can not. Jealousy that because of the the two reasons, people actually do spend more on higher end cables for the above two reasons.

    That's my take on it.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....


    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
    Skip......you make trolling these threads a task for me.
    DSkip wrote: »
    I find in many areas of this hobby that the issues lie in theory vs reality. While something should work like X, the truth is there is more we don't fully understand that actually make it work like Y. Eventually we will understand these things at a deeper level but until then, it takes an open mind to experiment. It also takes an open mind to realize that if you can't hear a difference, it could simply be the system isn't revealing it to you. It doesn't mean you have a poor system, just that the new component isn't fully realized for whatever reason.

    I have faithfully endorsed and will continue to endorse Wireworld because they aren't system dependent. They use scientific approaches paired with scopes to build a better cable. Their cables sound good in every system I've tried thus far. A specific cable from them in general might not be the best fit for your system overall, but it's going to get you close.

  • machone
    machone Posts: 1,471
    I recently upgraded all of the power cords in the digital half of my system but did not bring it up because there seems to be either very little interest or controversy.
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
    1KVA Dreadnought

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    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    I like cables, whatever would I do without them? Now that I am getting back to normal I can evaluate my latest cable purchases. My listening chair has been cold for a while, but then I am still stuck in this bad room for 28 months and 27 days.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    I was listening to used, 70-ish year-old 2A3s tonight... and my, oh, my did they sound fine.
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    I think my next audio purchase will be the new TOTL Shunyata Sigma speaker cables. Then we can some cable talk. All I can say now is that better cables have made a tremendous improvement in my system. When you find something that works then stick with it.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
    Oi! Victor fargin nailed it...m
  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 8,056
    edited January 2018
    Im using MIT's, Wireworld. Audioquests, and Signal Cables, all with good results. Do not knock it till you try it.
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
    JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365

    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
    Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin B)
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    As steveinaz pointed out, cables are another component in the system. Different wire, different metals, different insulators will all do something unique to the sound. Some will have more pronounced effects in different systems as they will react differently to the components upstream. It's reasonable to assume that there may be little gain recognized by placing a higher priced (read better quality materials and build) in a lower end system that is less revealing to begin with. I'm not trying to start a class war, lol, just an observation that there are money issues when it comes to extracting as much info as possible from your system. A $500 Dueland capacitor sounds different than a $5 capacitor.
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,505
    BlueFox wrote: »
    I think my next audio purchase will be the new TOTL Shunyata Sigma speaker cables. Then we can some cable talk. All I can say now is that better cables have made a tremendous improvement in my system. When you find something that works then stick with it.

    My local friend has a set, he loves them.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
    machone wrote: »
    Good room acoustics have everything to do with hearing the difference in cables. Before I fixed my room I did not know what I was listening to.

    Thank you....