Club Polk Perception
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nooshinjohn wrote: »Mine do an easy 350 and that is enough for me. The 700 watt amps are actually rated at 900 watts as I recall if you run KT120's. I have heard these driving the big Magico speakers. Then listened again using Classe mono amps. The big Carvers were night and day better in every regard.
If I had the coin, I would not hesitate pulling the trigger.
The Ultimates? If so, those definitely do not need 700 watts. I don't doubt they bested the Classe amplifiers though.nooshinjohn wrote: »There is a need for that much power, but 95% of us don't need it. The rest can't afford it
John, when would one need 700 watts of tube power? My thoughts would be, at the price point I'm expecting this one to hit, that one who would need that much power would be invested in a true multi-amp configuration and would put a solid state amplifier on the bass drivers. It seems many of the modern designs where that much power is needed already have internal amplifiers for the bass drivers anyways.
I'm not being argumentative there - I really would like to know where you think this application is needed. I don't even have an issue with your beasts, but doubling down on that seems unnecessary in every situation I can think of.I know he does. I'm not saying these won't be great. Just pushing a design to that level doesn't impress me. I'd rather see him make a lower watt amp push the boundaries.
I suspect there will be some trickle down with this and through imitation, the tube community in general will glean better amps from this innovation.
I need to read through the write-up, but my gut tells me there isn't much innovation in the design so much as setting a power goal and throwing in enough tubes to reach it. That isn't to say its a bad design or Bob doesn't know what he is doing (obviously he does), but when I see that kind of number I think its more to do with sticker-shock as opposed to ingenuity in design.
There is innovation in his amps, the longevity of the tubes and how that is accomplished being the most note worthy in the current versions. He used the knowledge gained from the original Silver 6, Silver 7 and Silver 9 tube mono blocks with separate power supplies that he made years ago to create the current versions. There may have been a few other tube amps back then that used separate power supplies, but I can't think of any. Let me tell you those original amps are amazing, the sound quality is off the charts great. They also happen to be the only amps I've heard that can properly drive the Carver Platinum speakers. I've heard high powered SS amps choke trying to drive those speakers. So, if his tube amps can drive those just think how well they'd do with other speakers.
What you get from running high quality, high powered amps, SS or tubes is speed, iron fisted bass and unreal dynamics with an ease that is very hard to perhaps impossible to get otherwise.
Thanks for this information. I get the 700 watts... I just don't get it in tube form. Tubes themselves are not the best at controlling woofers. My point was if you need the power, go SS on those bass drivers for better control and overall better sound. For someone playing at that level biamping or triamping can be done right and cost is not an issue. Most speakers needing that much power already help you with an internal amplifier or two - even Rosso Fiorentino's Florentia has powered bass modules.
The extended life of the tubes - this sounds like something that he already had mastered. Is there anything 'new' that this amp implements other than big power? It is nice to know all those tubes won't be running at full blast though - that would be $$$ to have to retube.
Have you heard the 700 watt amp?
I don't doubt he has great tube amps and have said as much. I haven't had the pleasure of hearing one yet.
I just struggle with this particular amp being more than a bragging right for those who can afford it than an all out assault on fidelity. It will sell and owners will love it so in the end it doesn't matter.
You're now selling Class D amps ? That certainly is a change of tune on your part. Have you heard the KEF LS50 wireless , yet ? You told me they couldn't sound that good with class D woofer amps. They do.
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I have heard all of the highly regarded amplifiers. The Silver 6, Silver 7 and the Silver 9. I have also heard all of the current offerings from Bob with the exception of the Silver Seven700. It has the same basic circuitry of the original Silver 7's but with added technology and other improvements he wanted to add into the design. BTW, I believe that original MSRP for the Silver 7's back in the day was around the 22K mark to today's retail price isn't too far off the mark. They are still highly regarded by some every heavy hitters in the industry, even after all of these years. An amplifier can not have that kind of staying power if the sonics are not there.Have you heard the 700 watt amp?
I don't doubt he has great tube amps and have said as much. I haven't had the pleasure of hearing one yet.
I just struggle with this particular amp being more than a bragging right for those who can afford it than an all out assault on fidelity. It will sell and owners will love it so in the end it doesn't matter.
When and if you ever get your ears on a set, you tell me. Is it bragging right or great sound that will leave a permanent mark on your audio palette?
I know where my thoughts lie and I will not shove my thoughts down your throat but I truly think you are doing yourself a disservice by making comments about this legendary amp just being built for bragging rights. Respectfully said.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
From my experience, tubes are excellent at controlling woofers, and more power means more control. I get where you are coming from, but you have yet to hear these amps for yourself.
These are not your normal, laid back type of amplifier. They are assertive, powerful, fast and articulate.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
I currently do not sell Class D amps. I have looked at a few options like Devialet and Mola Mola. I won't carry them until I hear them though.
I am not a fan of Class D full range, at least what I have heard. The two I mentioned get great reviews but are well above where most in this community would consider 'reasonably priced'. Ears I trust tell me there are a few exceptions to the rule so I am seeking out those potential exceptions.
Every class D I've heard thus far has had a very artificial sound to it. I told you I don't expect them to sound good with those amps and I stand by that. I know many are getting good results and perhaps the DSP is helping tremendously in that. I would be in the camp of getting the LS50 over the LS50 wireless for the built-in amps alone. I'm still not sold on the LS50 wireless being perfectly optimized with class D technology in it, but there are a multitude of other reasons why that approach was taken.
Truth be told, with solid state I've been very partial to A/B designs, even over the class A designs I've heard. The class A amps I have heard have all had pinpoint imaging with no true body. The class D I've heard have artificial midbass and felt unnaturally controlled if that makes sense. There was no smoothness to the transitions and that weirds me out. Every amp is different, but these are the rules more than the exceptions that I've come across so far in my journey.
So, you've heard them ? Class D with the KEFs is for the bass only. Mid and tweeter is class A/B. Everyone that I have talked to or reviews that I've read say the wireless is superior to the passive ones. It's not for hobbyist who wants to constantly fiddle and swap out ICs and components. -
Thread fight! Thread fight! Woooooo!
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I currently do not sell Class D amps. I have looked at a few options like Devialet and Mola Mola. I won't carry them until I hear them though.
I am not a fan of Class D full range, at least what I have heard. The two I mentioned get great reviews but are well above where most in this community would consider 'reasonably priced'. Ears I trust tell me there are a few exceptions to the rule so I am seeking out those potential exceptions.
Every class D I've heard thus far has had a very artificial sound to it. I told you I don't expect them to sound good with those amps and I stand by that. I know many are getting good results and perhaps the DSP is helping tremendously in that. I would be in the camp of getting the LS50 over the LS50 wireless for the built-in amps alone. I'm still not sold on the LS50 wireless being perfectly optimized with class D technology in it, but there are a multitude of other reasons why that approach was taken.
Truth be told, with solid state I've been very partial to A/B designs, even over the class A designs I've heard. The class A amps I have heard have all had pinpoint imaging with no true body. The class D I've heard have artificial midbass and felt unnaturally controlled if that makes sense. There was no smoothness to the transitions and that weirds me out. Every amp is different, but these are the rules more than the exceptions that I've come across so far in my journey.
So, you've heard them ? Class D with the KEFs is for the bass only. Mid and tweeter is class A/B. Everyone that I have talked to or reviews that I've read say the wireless is superior to the passive ones. It's not for hobbyist who wants to constantly fiddle and swap out ICs and components.
The A/B is used for the tweeter only. Class d powers the woofer which is where I have issues. That covers 90% of the sound and is not just limited to bass.
It is a lifestyle product and for that it is great. Ernie has had great success with his in a room he couldn't beat and in glad it worked out for him. There is a place in the market for that product but it isn't in line with my goals or approach.
Lifestyle? Don't be such a snob. You're too young for that. Try listening to them with an open mind and then judge.
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I posed my impression for your feedback guys and I appreciate it. I know he makes great amps but it was hard for me to look at that rating and see anything else. You guys have given me a more open mind.
I would like to hear it one day and see what it is all about. Carverfest looks like it is falling down the drain for me so hopefully there will be another chance.
Get your buttocks out to Los Angeles and you can hear mine...The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
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Lifestyle? I live a broke one thanks to the enablers here.
Skip. You need to stop selling items under $25g's broham. Certify your snobbery. You have no clue what amp he brought to me the other day to try out. I felt at best, it would do good on my daughter's hello Kitty speakers I guess that makes me a snob. Woo hoo.
Lighten up and enjoy life. I am and do. I sleep well knowing my bathroom audio setup smokes everyone's best setup here, looking at you Tom and your elevated subs. Oh my snobbery again.
Cheers guys and gals. -
I guess I am a snob with those elevated subs and you could be right from what I hear about your audio tastes. BTW, I got your message....I'll call when the whirlwind called work slows down. Should be this weekend. I gotta pop back up to MD tomorrow.
Tom - AKA "Mr. Snob"~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Elevated subs? Do tell me more....2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
I sleep well knowing my bathroom audio setup smokes everyone's best setup here,
Cheers guys and gals.
Ok I'm a newbie, but I gotta say: pics or it doesn't exist.
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Its known to produce a lot of bASS
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
EndersShadow wrote: »
It's his new house and he a custom toilet built for his bASS
Better controlled midrange and deep bass2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
txcoastal1 wrote: »EndersShadow wrote: »
It's his new house and he a custom toilet built for his bASS
Better controlled midrange and deep bass
High dampening factor as well I bet
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
I guess I am a snob with those elevated subs and you could be right from what I hear about your audio tastes. BTW, I got your message....I'll call when the whirlwind called work slows down. Should be this weekend. I gotta pop back up to MD tomorrow.
Tom - AKA "Mr. Snob"
I am legend. I just piss off everyone along the way, because I am a first class snob. By sincere accident mind you.
Let's start with Kelly Sweet - Dream On. How does your setup handle it? Notice anything? Music layers? Depth? Stage? Poorly mixed? Good?
How about Jaimie Paul - Summertime or
Chris Botti - A Thousand Kisses Deep?
Yeah I am not mainstream. I also happen to believe that Adele has talent but needs to lose her recording studio.. what say you.
Oh this broham thing is giving me a broner.
Haha -
EndersShadow wrote: »txcoastal1 wrote: »EndersShadow wrote: »
It's his new house and he a custom toilet built for his bASS
Better controlled midrange and deep bass
High dampening factor as well I bet
But i hear its a little short on the upper registers -
EndersShadow wrote: »txcoastal1 wrote: »EndersShadow wrote: »
It's his new house and he a custom toilet built for his bASS
Better controlled midrange and deep bass
High dampening factor as well I bet
But i hear its a little short on the upper registers
Not after eating spicy food2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
txcoastal1 wrote: »EndersShadow wrote: »
It's his new house and he a custom toilet built for his bASS
Better controlled midrange and deep bass
Haha. Love it. Oh my broham giving me a broner. -
EndersShadow wrote: »txcoastal1 wrote: »EndersShadow wrote: »
It's his new house and he a custom toilet built for his bASS
Better controlled midrange and deep bass
High dampening factor as well I bet
Hahaha. Love it. Wish I had more time hanging with you. My time at LSAF was in between hectic.
Cheers man! -
Not perception, fact. When I came here people were incredibly helpful and unbelievably generous. People sent me things that I needed without my even asking. Especially that Voltz guy, he still sends me stuff for no good reason. This place is great, I hope they don't abandon it.
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txcoastal1 wrote: »EndersShadow wrote: »txcoastal1 wrote: »EndersShadow wrote: »
It's his new house and he a custom toilet built for his bASS
Better controlled midrange and deep bass
High dampening factor as well I bet
But i hear its a little short on the upper registers
Not after eating spicy food
His systems sonic signature is always changing.... depend on his diet lol....
Want more gutteral, organ type bass... Lots of salad and fiber for a day or two.
Want sloppy bass.... White Castle/Crystal
Heheh
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
EndersShadow wrote: »txcoastal1 wrote: »EndersShadow wrote: »
It's his new house and he a custom toilet built for his bASS
Better controlled midrange and deep bass
High dampening factor as well I bet
Hahaha. Love it. Wish I had more time hanging with you. My time at LSAF was in between hectic.
Cheers man!
No worries bro! Life is what it is. We nice to meet ya and break bread even for a short time.
Next time I won't be so dang congested. Took me like 3 months to get over that sinus infection. And that meant early bedtime to rest up. NOT CONDUSIVE for up late listening"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Yeah when you're that sick, flying can really screw that up worse2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
txcoastal1 wrote: »Yeah when you're that sick, flying can really screw that up worse
You ain't lying. Then add immun compromised... and it sucked.
But I'd do it all over again tomorrow in a heartbeat. I'd just bring some digital files with me lol.
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Hey guys. It's half time. Halen is up 49 to 3 Tom. Wiating for his come back. If this is Patriots over again, I spot the odds 45 to Tom. My defense alone will prevent any field goals. Anyhow. I just need to sack Tom for a safety and game is over.
I just handed you your balls Tom. It's on your 1 yard line. Hahaha.
Make that call. -
I have both of my subs on Target stands so that the mid point on the woofer on both subs are at the same level as the tweeter. The imaging, impact and sound stage all were improved. Mostly the presentation of all of the instrumentals got more focused with the spatial locational cues.Elevated subs? Do tell me more....
I tried it as an experiment because I didn't prefer the sound with them on the floor (I have front firing woofers on my subs) and the experiment worked. They have been on the Target stands ever since.
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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https://youtu.be/tDevd7O2fq8
