How much power do you really need....

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F1nut
F1nut Posts: 49,792
in 2 Channel Audio
https://youtu.be/bRMR9JZ1m0s
Political Correctness'.........defined

"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

President of Club Polk

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  • mikeyb128
    mikeyb128 Posts: 2,885
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    Cool video thanks for sharing.

    Constant peaks of 750 watts. Wow! Those are some power hungry speakers.
    2 channel:
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    Theater:
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 365
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    Interesting. 6 ohm at 85db. And $15,000 ! I always wanted to hear a set.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,056
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    There is really no real world answer to the question " How much power do I need ? "
    But there are ways to figure out what will work and what will not.
    There are so many factors that go into this decision.

    Cool video man, thanks.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • CoolJazz
    CoolJazz Posts: 569
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    When you need that kind of power, you've bought the wrong speakers!

    I have a friend that runs all the time with a scope attached to the speaker leads. You can see the instantaneous peak power as displayed. Calculated into the load, he never, ever exceeds even a half a watt. Really, a tenth would be about the peak demanded ever full range. That's with medium sized horns with pro JBL compression drivers for a big portion of the output, and sealed box design with old JVC t1tty 15" drivers (similar to the RCA LC-1A's for the lower frequencies.

    I run as loud as I'd ever want and am using four sections of 5w per. And actually, 45 tube amps with about 3/4's of a watt max do just fine too for the mains above 80hz, so 5 is overkill for me.

    High power demands raises the bar so tremendously for the amp topology design and the components used. It's a tough game pull off with the quality that single device outputs can do so easily.

    Give serious thought to the amp-speaker matching need and you can change the game before it even begins. But no reason to buy the "it can't happen without triple digits, in multiples, paradigm.

    CJ
    A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,792
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    I disagree. When you have that kind of power you can buy just about any speaker you want and not worry about it.

    Your friend's speakers appear to be extremely efficient, so yeah, he's not going to see high power readings.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,518
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    I think I probably use up 6-60w
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
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  • decal
    decal Posts: 3,205
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    I need 3756 watts per channel, give or take a few.
    If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money.
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  • jeremymarcinko
    jeremymarcinko Posts: 3,785
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    So that's why my 600w Emotiva monoblocks sound so good :o
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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  • Msabot1
    Msabot1 Posts: 2,098
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    It's really all about the headroom isn't it?....Those 40.1's....beautiful...
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,314
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    When I had the room and had the Carver amazing speakers, driving them with the Sunfire signature II 625x2 @8 ohms I never thought was overkill. They were the most inefficient speaker I ever owned however, with the proper room when I had the basement, sounded fantastic and I never once thought I had the wrong speaker.

    I'm with f1 on this one.
    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,554
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    erniejade wrote: »
    When I had the room and had the Carver amazing speakers, driving them with the Sunfire signature II 625x2 @8 ohms I never thought was overkill. They were the most inefficient speaker I ever owned however, with the proper room when I had the basement, sounded fantastic and I never once thought I had the wrong speaker.

    I'm with f1 on this one.

    I'm a firm believer in one cannot have too much power, you can have too little power thou.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited May 2017
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    CoolJazz wrote: »
    When you need that kind of power, you've bought the wrong speakers!

    I have a friend that runs all the time with a scope attached to the speaker leads. You can see the instantaneous peak power as displayed. Calculated into the load, he never, ever exceeds even a half a watt. Really, a tenth would be about the peak demanded ever full range. That's with medium sized horns with pro JBL compression drivers for a big portion of the output, and sealed box design with old JVC t1tty 15" drivers (similar to the RCA LC-1A's for the lower frequencies.
    The guys with nice sounding Maggies will disagree.Sensitivity,impedance ,the listening room and as mentioned in the vid the frequency content of the music are all factors.
    Your friends horn loaded drivers are hardly typical or suit everyones taste.The high voltage sensitivity certainly does have the advantage of reduced power demands thus a reduction of the effects of thermal compression. Excessive heat build up in voice coils can cause impedance changes which then can result in mis termination of or small shifts in crossover.(This is another area where active speakers have an advantage over passive crossovers.)
    As for the high power ampliflication they are plentiful these days and some even sound good. ;)
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 365
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    erniejade wrote: »
    When I had the room and had the Carver amazing speakers, driving them with the Sunfire signature II 625x2 @8 ohms I never thought was overkill. They were the most inefficient speaker I ever owned however, with the proper room when I had the basement, sounded fantastic and I never once thought I had the wrong speaker.

    I'm with f1 on this one.

    Even the passive LS50s can gobble a couple hundred watts.

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  • CoolJazz
    CoolJazz Posts: 569
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    Thinkin' questions...

    Given that the greater the movement of a cone driver, the greater the non-linearity, why would you expect a high power required driver to ever equal a high efficiency driver?

    Can high power ever equal the same details that a high efficiency driver can execute?

    Just theory question's, not bashing anybody's rig. I have both...and have heard great stuff both ways!

    CJ
    A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited May 2017
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    The reduced excursion demands of high sensitivity systems is certainly desirable. However dynamic driver motor design has progressed considerably in recent years allowing for larger excursions while keeping the voice coil within a symmetrical magnetic field.The net result a decrease in distortion regardless of voice coil position.(within its linear excursion capabilities)
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited May 2017
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    ...
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,554
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    Dang Fred school is in session...

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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
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    The correct answer is 1200W/ch @ 4 ohms. :)

    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
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    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
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    Less than 0.5Wrms with my line arrays. :D
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
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    Wusses. Friday and Saturday nights are meant to rock, and purge the soul of evil from the week. B)
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
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    I found out that if I play it loud it overcomes the tinnitus in my left ear. Sounds great. LOL.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,093
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    It takes more than 2500 watts to accurately reproduce the sound of a scissor snip.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,027
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    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    It takes more than 2500 watts to accurately reproduce the sound of a scissor snip.

    True.
    http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=hug&n=178121&highlight=Burwen&r=&search_url=/default.mpl?searchtext=Burwen&b=AND&topic=&topics_only=N&author=&date1=2017-04-01&date2=&slowmessage=&ip=&sort=score&sortOrder=DESC&sortRank=Forum&forum=ALL

    Gotta love the fact that too little power could cause a scissor snip to clip. Aptly ironic ;)

    This being said, the vagaries of transient reproduction is, I think, (still) a big part of the (ahem) profligate use of compressors and limiters in recording and live performance. We very rarely get the full monty when it comes to recorded dynamics, and that is very often by design of the engineers, producers and mixer/masterer of recorded material.

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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
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    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    It takes more than 2500 watts to accurately reproduce the sound of a scissor snip.

    True.
    http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=hug&n=178121&highlight=Burwen&r=&search_url=/default.mpl?searchtext=Burwen&b=AND&topic=&topics_only=N&author=&date1=2017-04-01&date2=&slowmessage=&ip=&sort=score&sortOrder=DESC&sortRank=Forum&forum=ALL

    Gotta love the fact that too little power could cause a scissor snip to clip. Aptly ironic ;)

    This being said, the vagaries of transient reproduction is, I think, (still) a big part of the (ahem) profligate use of compressors and limiters in recording and live performance. We very rarely get the full monty when it comes to recorded dynamics, and that is very often by design of the engineers, producers and mixer/masterer of recorded material.

    Now Professor, using the term "full Monty" might get you in trouble if school was in session. Could be considered a micro aggression towards...well, you know. ;)

    Good point though...
    HT SYSTEM-
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  • leftwinger57
    leftwinger57 Posts: 2,917
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    I hate to admit this but I think I've got too much power. Just yesterday I pushed in the loudness button on the NAD 1020a pre and volume increased quite a bit. While listening to GD.NET the Grateful Dead i-net station they go from jamming into drums and I heard that awful distortion type sound that you never want to hear from my right 2B. I jumped up lowered the volume let loose the loudness button to hopefully save my speaker.This w/ my Adcom gfa-555 I think can push even totl Von Shweikerts maybe.
    Both speakers are fine but they do have limits for sure!!!.....Lew
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

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