Classic Infinity speakers

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[Deleted User]
[Deleted User] Posts: 342
edited May 2017 in 2 Channel Audio
Hi folks, many of you may or may not be aware that I am an Infinity lover, having owned 3 classic pairs of Infinitys since 1987 (incl: Infinity Reference 3's, Reference 60's & Renaissance 90's). If I had deeper pockets back then, my above list would have been (in order) Ren 90's, IRS-Sigma & IRS-Omega...I wish! :p The Omegas sound amazing even by today's standards & are arguably the best speakers Infinity ever made. Apropos which, I attached a video below of the Omegas in action B).

For the unitiated, Infinity Systems was founded by Arnie Nudell, John Ulrick (both ex Litton Industries) & Cary Christie in 1968 and started out in Arnie's garage. Their debut loudspeaker was the classic Servostatik 1 which was way ahead of its time when it was released in 1968 & comprised a servo-controlled 18" woofer from Cerwin Vega, two electrostic panels for the mids/highs & an Infinity designed crossover/bass amp.

Classic Infinitys like my previous Renaissance 90's were amazingly fast, transparent & had excellent sound staging and imaging. Off-axis response was also very good thanks to the improved design of the High Energy Emit and Emim drivers, curved cabinet & integrated grill which is designed to be a integral part of the cabinet to better manage dispersion and reduce diffraction (similar to Avalon). Bass was very good thanks to the use of a 10" Watkins dual voice coil woofer & dedicated mid-bass coupler, though the Rens like most Infinitys generally need a minimum of 200 watts class a/b power.

Here is an interesting video (below) of the history of Infinity speakers, including an interview with Arnie Nudel & Cary Christie. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1b5seCzMpw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OHXajCtEFk
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  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 9,983
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    I have a couple pairs of vintage Infinity speakers, Kappa 8's and RSIIIb's. I like the classic sound, superb top end and very good bass too.
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  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,627
    edited May 2017
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    http://www.infinity-classics.de/technik/manuals/Renaissance_90_technical_sheet.pdf

    One of the best speakers of all time, especially back then.

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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 342
    edited May 2017
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    Were the Kappa 8's amp-killers like the Kappa 9's dromunds? I would have liked to have owned a pair of RS2B's, but never had the chance. The IRS-Omega's are on another level altogether.
    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
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    My buddy, Mike, has killed a couple of amos with his RS II. Good times!
    He has Ren 90 in his HT for fronts. Wide open, seamless sound stage.
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 342
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    K_M wrote: »
    http://www.infinity-classics.de/technik/manuals/Renaissance_90_technical_sheet.pdf

    One of the best speakers of all time, especially back then.
    In terms of cost/performance, the Ren 90's were hands down the best speakers i've every heard. They were like $1800 on debut & sounded like $10k speakers. Though their achillies heal was their foam transmission line which started to rot after about 15 years and their 'unobtanium' grills, which if damaged, could dramatically affect the sound.
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  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,627
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    Bodhi wrote: »
    Were the Kappa 8's amp-killers like the Kappa 9's dromunds? I would have liked to own a pair of RS2B's, but never had the chance. Though IRS-Omega's are on another level altogether.

    We had a pair of the 9's several years back. I was always getting yelled at, to be careful turning them up too much on my Diana Krall stuff. I used to love hearing it really loud on some of her songs!
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 342
    edited May 2017
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    lightman1 wrote: »
    My buddy, Mike, has killed a couple of amos with his RS II. Good times!
    He has Ren 90 in his HT for fronts. Wide open, seamless sound stage.
    Very nice fronts! The Rens were my main 2 channel speakers for a while. Though i've seen photos on the net of a crazy guy running IRS-V's (front), an IRS-Gamma speaker (center), IRS-Betas (rear) & from memory, Infinitesimal Modulus (sides) :'( .

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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
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    Bodhi wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    My buddy, Mike, has killed a couple of amos with his RS II. Good times!
    He has Ren 90 in his HT for fronts. Wide open, seamless sound stage.
    Very nice fronts! The Rens were my main 2 channel speakers for a while. Though i've seen photos on the net of a crazy guy running IRS-V's (front), an IRS-Gamma speaker (center), IRS-Betas (rear) & from memory, Infinitesimal Modulus (sides) :'( .

    Cripes! Did he live in a warehouse?!
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 342
    edited May 2017
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    "lightman1 wrote:
    Cripes! Did he live in a warehouse?!
    Actually they were crammed into a room I guess no more than 7 x 5 meters which looked crazy!

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  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 9,983
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    I've been told the Kappa 9's were much more of an amp-killer than the Kappa 8's. Lol.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
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    I like the classic Infinity's would love a pair of RSII's.
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 342
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    @FTGV, the RS2B's were the ones to own. I might buy a pair one day as a resto project. Graz can upgrade all the Emims & Watkins Engineering can re-foam and align the woofers. Then it's just a matter of a new wiring loom, re-capping the x-over & EQ box, and refinishing the cabinet with several coats of Howards Feed 'N' wax.
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  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
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    Did Infinity make some pyramid shaped speakers back in the 70's?
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 342
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    afterburnt wrote: »
    Did Infinity make some pyramid shaped speakers back in the 70's?
    You might be getting confused with Vandersteen or Sequerra speakers? To my knowledge, Infinity never designed any speakers in that shape.

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  • JayCee
    JayCee Posts: 1,479
    edited May 2017
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    JBL released the L250 and later L250 Ti. Based on their cabinet design they were referred to as the "pyramid" speaker. Production was approx 1982-1990???
    L250Ti_LE_small.jpg

    audioheritage.org/html/profiles/jbl/l250.htm

    I worked at the Mainz-Kastel military audio club, in Germany, and remember demoing a pair with several other competing vendors...while the JBL rep was not around. >:) CD's were fairly new and we had a disk with lifelike sounds; race care driving by, baby crying, light bulbs being dropped and shattered. Warning on the disc stated to be careful with respect to dynamic range.

    Don't remember the exact cost but the pyramids were expensive and why we were $crewing around with them. Cranked up and listening to the track with light bulbs shattering. Ooops...tweeters fried! Of course we did the responsible thing...looked at each other and promptly scattered. :#
    ➀Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) ➁Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, DirectStream ➂Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" ➃Power Conditioner: PS Audio P15 Power Plant ➄Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends ➅Streaming: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC, TP-Link WAP, & Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark, Emperor Double Crown Clock, Black Modernize LPS, PS Audio AirLens⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
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  • JayCee
    JayCee Posts: 1,479
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    Infinity had an awesome demo room with their entire line for 1984-85. I worked for Technics/Panasonic and on slow days I'd head down and listen to, if memory is correct, the IRS-V's. Loved the mids and clarity of the top end. Music floated from them. To contrast, Polk was new to the military market and across the hall was their line-up. SDA-SRS's were available and I was always taken by the sound stage. No comparison with the IRS-V in sound reproduction but the SDA's also left a lasting impression.

    Modestly, my very first speaker purchase was a very non traditional Infinity 3500, possibly made for only the military market. No EMIT's...a very cheap dome tweeter, active paper cone midrange driver and a duplicate passive radiator. Total price was around $200. Big bucks for a high school student. Hooked them up to a Yamaha A-960MkII integrated, Technics SL-QL1 turntable and a cheap Technics cassette deck. Speakers are still in the family and the QL1 is in storage.

    Just did a search and can't even find a picture of the 3500 on-line. Sound is quite dreadful for Infinity of that time but I could never part with them. My son and I refinished the cabs in 2010 and he has them. Only photos I have are from the restoration, sans drivers installed.

    fzfxiwvdhn5l.jpg

    Found the specs years ago:

    Infinity 3500
    PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS
    General Frequency Response: 45Hz - 20kHz (+/-4dB)
    Sensitivity: 89dB (1 watt/1 meter)
    Impedance: 4 ohms
    Woofer: 8" dual active
    Tweeter: dome w/1" voice coil
    2-Way 150 Watt Speaker
    40 x 12 x 12

    Vintage Infinity sound has always been in the back of my mind. I'd love to hear a set of the IRS-V's again and haven't ruled out picking up a pair of any mid 80's Infinity's if the opportunity presented itself.
    ➀Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) ➁Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, DirectStream ➂Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" ➃Power Conditioner: PS Audio P15 Power Plant ➄Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends ➅Streaming: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC, TP-Link WAP, & Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark, Emperor Double Crown Clock, Black Modernize LPS, PS Audio AirLens⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
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  • JayCee
    JayCee Posts: 1,479
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    I'm on a roll posting today...LOL.

    My main DAC is a PS Audio DirectStream w/Bridge II card and absolutely love it. PS Audio voices all their products on the IRS-V and the company history is linked to Infinity. Want to see the massive scale of these speakers...check out Paul McGowan next to them!

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=NPazywXrqJo
    ➀Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) ➁Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, DirectStream ➂Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" ➃Power Conditioner: PS Audio P15 Power Plant ➄Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends ➅Streaming: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC, TP-Link WAP, & Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark, Emperor Double Crown Clock, Black Modernize LPS, PS Audio AirLens⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 342
    edited May 2017
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    JayCee wrote: »
    I'm on a roll posting today...LOL.

    My main DAC is a PS Audio DirectStream w/Bridge II card and absolutely love it. PS Audio voices all their products on the IRS-V and the company history is linked to Infinity. Want to see the massive scale of these speakers...check out Paul McGowan next to them!

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=NPazywXrqJo
    Yeah I've watched all those videos. PS Audio amps would bs a good match for synergy with the IRS speakers.

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  • BlueBirdMusic
    BlueBirdMusic Posts: 2,077
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    Here is some more interesting stuff related to the partnership of Arnie Nudell and Paul McGowan.

    I saw these speakers for sale on Audiogon this morning - $69,000 asking price. The seller says Paul McGowan traveled to Australia for the final install. The OP is selling the speakers because of age (70) and health problems.


    https://www.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-genesis-1-massive-7-3-feet-4-towers-with-4000-watt-bass-amp-2017-05-04-speakers-6123

    4w1xb89pyxao.jpg
    "Sometimes you have to look to the past to understand where you are going in the future"


    Harry / Marietta GA
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 342
    edited May 2017
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    Nice B). The first thing i'd do with those speakers is replace the Carver midrange panels with German Bohlender Graebener midrange panels. Not cheap, but that is a big upgrade.
    Post edited by [Deleted User] on
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  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    edited May 2017
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    Bodhi wrote: »
    afterburnt wrote: »
    Did Infinity make some pyramid shaped speakers back in the 70's?
    You might be getting confused with Vandersteen or Sequerra speakers? To my knowledge, Infinity never designed any speakers in that shape.

    These were unusual speakers that had some kind of conical driver on top. An old friend of mine had them and I think they cost something crazy like 10K. I don't remember much else about them. like I said it was last century. Hey I think I found them. Verey interesting concept.

    1f35c054e0ee063db93d35741479066c.jpg

    Does anyone know anything about these?

    "the amazing ohm acoustics walsh f omnidirectional loudspeaker its intricate vertical cone radiated different frequencies from different parts of the cone the first of a kind of speaker known as a bending wave transducer incredibly deep and spacious"
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  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,892
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    ^^Seen a couple pair for sale around these parts in the last year.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.
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  • Manticore
    Manticore Posts: 408
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    Not that these are anywhere near top of the line but, I'm still running a pair of Infinity Reference four speakers with an old Denon 3802 powering them. The emit tweeter on these were the selling point I believe. Purchased them new in 92 for $500 if memory serves. Still a decent sounding speaker at that.
    Denon AVR X4200W
    Parasound A23 amplifier
    Parasound A23 amplifier
    LG 65" Ultra HD4k
    LG 4kBR - UP970
    Denon DVM 4800
    Denon DP 3000 turntable
    Saec 308sx tonearm w/
    Dynavector 10x5 cart
    Vincent PHO 701 Phono Preamp
    MIT Avt3 Speaker c's
    Audio Quest Big Sur ic's
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Polk LSim 707
    Polk LSiM706c
    Polk RTiA 3's
    Polk 80F/X-RT
    Polk DSW PRO 440wi sub
    Infinity bu2 sub
    "The early Klingon gets the Gagh"
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  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
    edited May 2017
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    nm
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
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  • Irrenhaus
    Irrenhaus Posts: 1,082
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    This are for sale in the Bay Area no Idea on them. And no relation to the seller.

    https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/6111440200.html

    Cheers
    HTAVR-Pioneer SC99XPA-DR3 Differential Reference AmpPolk R-700Rear- RT150Side- RT150Center-CSi5Sub-Rythmik audio F25Player- Panasonic DP-UB9000Projector- Optoma CinemaX P2Screen- Silver Ticket Products STR Series 6 120"Audio Room 2ch rig.Cary AE-3, Onkyo M-504, Marantz SA8005, Azur 851NWharfedale - Linton, SVS SB12-NSDMinis Forum PC (streamer) and Panamax MX5105Headphone rig;Schiit JOTUNHEIM and different headphones.Samsung 42" flat screen TV.
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 342
    edited May 2017
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    Irrenhaus wrote: »
    This are for sale in the Bay Area no Idea on them. And no relation to the seller.

    https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/6111440200.html

    Cheers
    That does look like a clean pair of Betas, though I tend to avoid most Infinity classifieds that sound too good to be true...especially when they show up on Craigslist. Other red flags about this ad;

    - The speakers are advertised at roughly half the current going rate for a near mint pair
    - The seller is inexplicably coy about who did the modifications to the Betas, the specifics of what work was carried out, and offers no paperwork to certify the work
    - No reference to how many times these speakers have changed hands, or whether he has the original receipt of purchase
    - No reference to shipping details or whether the seller has the original boxes
    - The seller does not offer PayPal as a payment option
    - No offfer of home demo for local buyers
    - Craigslist apparently provide no information or f'back about sellers, so you don't know who you're dealing with

    Too many red flags for me. For anyone in the market for classic Infinity's, I'd also strongly advise you to avoid dealing with a Texan Doctor named Larry Schwartz ('lwschwartz' on forums). He screwed me on a pair of Infinity speakers I bought from him and had shipped to Australia years ago. He even had the front to refer me to one of his friends selling Infinity parts (also from Texas) who claimed to pass on the proceeds to charity. This Charity guy also scammed me! I can't say I wasn't warned though...a guy on Audiokarma told me not to deal with a Doctor in Texas selling Infinity speakers. Hands down that was the worst experience I've had in 26 years in this hobby, and turned me off buying 2nd hand gear. (That same guy cautioned me about dealing with an EBay seller 'Magicmarksy').
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  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 3,004
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    I have a pair of RSIIIa that I love. The EMIT tweeter is just the bomb. Driving them with a McCormack DNA-125...doesn't really break a sweat.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
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  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,892
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    What is good about these or not?


    https://columbus.craigslist.org/ele/6100225860.html
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 342
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    jdjohn wrote: »
    I have a pair of RSIIIa that I love. The EMIT tweeter is just the bomb. Driving them with a McCormack DNA-125...doesn't really break a sweat.
    I loved the first pair of full size Infinitys I owned (Reference 60's) which had the Emit-R tweeter. That tweeter was fast and crystal clear & had real sparkle on cymbols etc. Great sound from just a $1500AUD speaker!

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  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,627
    edited May 2017
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    Bodhi wrote: »
    Irrenhaus wrote: »
    This are for sale in the Bay Area no Idea on them. And no relation to the seller.

    https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/6111440200.html

    Cheers

    . He screwed me on a pair of Infinity speakers I bought from him and had shipped to Australia years ago. He even had the front to refer me to one of his friends selling Infinity parts (also from Texas) who claimed to pass on the proceeds to charity. This Charity guy also scammed me! I can't say I wasn't warned though...a guy on Audiokarma told me not to deal with a Doctor in Texas selling Infinity speakers. Hands down that was the worst experience I've had in 26 years in this hobby, and turned me off buying 2nd hand gear. (That same guy cautioned me about dealing with an EBay seller 'Magicmarksy').

    I buy all of my used gear from a Nigerian Prince, that Emails me his best deals. The only issue, he needs me to send thousand of American Dollars to be converted to gold, so he can get the gear out of a storage facility on a loading dock in his country.

    Always worked great for me!
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