12 Gauge vs 16 Gauge??

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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,027
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    Hermitism wrote: »
    Do you remember the single edge razor blade? Then they came out with two edges on top, and so forth. What are they up to, razor blades with 5 blades on top to give you the latest, greatest shave? Lets add another, audiophile razor blade and have the 6 blade audio quest Shavemaster Razor. LOL!

    I still use my double edge razor from the 70s and it works fine.
    I'll be the first to admit that I'm no expert when it comes to audio, but I can speak to my own personal experience with razors. I can say without doubt that upgrading the cable to my beard trimmer resulted in a smoother shave, higher revving motor resulting in a faster moving blade, and a quicker recharge rate. I even started a thread about in 2014.

    i69k4234ej0q.jpg

    Oooh, I'll check that out. I use an electric pet trimmer for mine :)
    (well it was sold for human use, but it's identical, attachments and all, to one some friends of ours had for their dog).
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,027
    edited April 2017
    Options
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    The reason they make all those different versions is that they want to separate you from the money in your wallet. It is called marketing.

    Do you remember the single edge razor blade? Then they came out with two edges on top, and so forth. What are they up to, razor blades with 5 blades on top to give you the latest, greatest shave? Lets add another, audiophile razor blade and have the 6 blade audio quest Shavemaster Razor. LOL!

    I still use my double edge razor from the 70s and it works fine.

    Here is a link to the Cable Company. You can actually by a pair of $55,000 speaker cables from them. They are way past the 6 blade audio quest Shavemaster Razor.

    https://www.thecableco.com/Catalog/Speaker-Cables

    WHO CARES that they sell cables that expensive. Nobody is advocating you buy those. If you're too cheap to even try a new razor to see how well they work then explain why you are even asking any questions about better anything? After ALL you have already found the best razor on earth and have got to have the best wire or interconnects all ready so why once again why are you still here?

    Did it ever even occur to you that all the super expensive cable, Cars, Blenders, razors you name over time trickles down to more affordable products? It's not about separating you from your money. It's about R&D more than anything. There are people out there who make stupid amounts of money you or I most likely will never see in out entire lifetime, they spend stupid amounts on crazy stuff. I'm in the market for a new TV I'm worried about spending 1000-1500 dollars but yet my buddy just bought a $40,000 projector for his theater. Should I go tell him how much of an idiot he is? Of course not!! That projector R&D will come down to stuff you and I can afford someday.

    By the way I find it somewhat skeptical that you can still find blades for that razor, My best razor from the late 80's I sure can't......

    I guess the model for this, at our house, would be optics.
    Mrs. H is a pretty avid birder. She literally travels the world in search of wily species. She has two pairs of good European binoculars for birding. Her current go-to (10 x 42 Zeiss roof prism) binoculars cost about what I have invested in amplifier and loudspeakers combined. Most normal folks don't spend that kind of gelt on binoculars.

    I recently bought a pair of Chinese-made Cabelas branded roof prism 10 x 42 binos for our kitchen. A fraction of the price of Mrs. H's Zeiss and Swarovski glass. Are they as good? Heck no, not even close.

    Are they good enough to keep in the kitchen and grab to see what's on the feeders out back? Heck yes. They're pretty bright, sharp, contrasty - chromatic aberration's not bad, eye relief is decent. They're very good binos for 200 smackers -- but no way, no how in the same league as top-quality European glass.

    I absolutely, completely, 100% see the value of (and quality of) the big name, big price European roof prism binoculars when the difference between identifying a "life list" species or not is on the line.

    Horses for courses.

  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
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    The reason they make all those different versions is that they want to separate you from the money in your wallet. It is called marketing.

    Do you remember the single edge razor blade? Then they came out with two edges on top, and so forth. What are they up to, razor blades with 5 blades on top to give you the latest, greatest shave? Lets add another, audiophile razor blade and have the 6 blade audio quest Shavemaster Razor. LOL!

    I still use my double edge razor from the 70s and it works fine.

    Here is a link to the Cable Company. You can actually by a pair of $55,000 speaker cables from them. They are way past the 6 blade audio quest Shavemaster Razor.

    https://www.thecableco.com/Catalog/Speaker-Cables

    Eh, your hitting the extremes of audio. For some, it's hard to comprehend things in audio outside their own realm of affordability. You'll find most opinions in audio travel along side wallet sizes. Is a Ferrari worth the coin ? A 5k suit from a fancy Italian designer ?

    I couldn't tell ya, never driven a Ferrari or worn a suit of that caliber. Perhaps if I did in either case, I'd better understand their value.

    Obviously extreme examples, but you get the point. Try something to better understand the value for yourself. It may have some...or none, when all is said and done. There are no guarantees in life with anything, just experiences.

    If your happy with the sound your getting now, then pay no mind to anything and simply enjoy your tunes. Nothing wrong with that at all. If your the curious type when it comes to cables, I have a few simple rules for you.

    1- Only spend what you can afford.....have a budget in mind.

    2- Buy used....to further the bang for your buck. Plus should you not like xyz cable, you could re-sell a used cable and not lose much money if any at all.

    3- Ask for recommendations. Put more weight on the advice from those you think are more aligned with your preferences in sound and music or have similar gear to work with. This vastly narrows your search, and limits the risk of buying a cable you may not like. Not everything you try will be a winner.

    If you stick to those 3 rules, you'll be able to experience some different sound signatures with cables and not spend or lose boat loads of coin. Once you find a sound signature within a brand of cables you like, then you can explore their higher series of cables. Every brand has a number of series and the improvements usually, but not always improve the higher up you go.

    I hope my ramblings help you make sense of it all. I realize too some of this audio stuff is hard to fathom for us old f a r t s. Nothing ventured, nothing gained though, right ? Since we are both of....um...age, just a reminder that we have learned things over the coarse of our lives not from the things we did right, but the many things we did wrong. In audio, too many are afraid to learn things, because they are afraid of being wrong, and thus costing them money in the process. So they never try anything and stay stagnant.

    That's the beauty of this forum, you have resources....a fantastic membership with all sorts of experience from the most mundane systems, to DIY stuff, computers and HT, digital, up to high end systems that cost as much as a new Mercedes. Use it when it's appropriate for you is all I'm sayin'. Fantastic people here, pick their brains when your need arises. No hurry, no pushing....your in the drivers seat. Good luck to you.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,027
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    oh, well -- I think we tried.
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited April 2017
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    You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. LOL.

    I buy all my cables from the Cable Company, along with power conditioners. They are a good company.

    You should take advantage of them now. The Zitron line is being replaced soon with the next generation, and they are reduced in price. When I bought my Zitron Anaconda for the stereo four years ago they were an even $4K.

    xs8jyj2dtk6s.jpg
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • VSAT88
    VSAT88 Posts: 1,227
    Options
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Hermitism wrote: »
    Do you remember the single edge razor blade? Then they came out with two edges on top, and so forth. What are they up to, razor blades with 5 blades on top to give you the latest, greatest shave? Lets add another, audiophile razor blade and have the 6 blade audio quest Shavemaster Razor. LOL!

    I still use my double edge razor from the 70s and it works fine.
    I'll be the first to admit that I'm no expert when it comes to audio, but I can speak to my own personal experience with razors. I can say without doubt that upgrading the cable to my beard trimmer resulted in a smoother shave, higher revving motor resulting in a faster moving blade, and a quicker recharge rate. I even started a thread about in 2014.

    i69k4234ej0q.jpg

    Oooh, I'll check that out. I use an electric pet trimmer for mine :)
    (well it was sold for human use, but it's identical, attachments and all, to one some friends of ours had for their dog).

    BINGO !
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,027
    edited April 2017
    Options
    heh -- here youse guyses go:
    https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-25-foot-square-square-parallel-speaker-cable

    ... and it's on sale.

    From a thread on Another Site: "There's basically 7 "strands" in each conductor, 4 are OFC and 3 are silver plated OFC. One also has a prominent black stripe to denote polarity."
    -- the mind boggles.

    :)
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
    Options
    tonyb wrote: »
    The reason they make all those different versions is that they want to separate you from the money in your wallet. It is called marketing.

    Do you remember the single edge razor blade? Then they came out with two edges on top, and so forth. What are they up to, razor blades with 5 blades on top to give you the latest, greatest shave? Lets add another, audiophile razor blade and have the 6 blade audio quest Shavemaster Razor. LOL!

    I still use my double edge razor from the 70s and it works fine.

    Here is a link to the Cable Company. You can actually by a pair of $55,000 speaker cables from them. They are way past the 6 blade audio quest Shavemaster Razor.

    https://www.thecableco.com/Catalog/Speaker-Cables

    Eh, your hitting the extremes of audio. For some, it's hard to comprehend things in audio outside their own realm of affordability. You'll find most opinions in audio travel along side wallet sizes. Is a Ferrari worth the coin ? A 5k suit from a fancy Italian designer ?

    I couldn't tell ya, never driven a Ferrari or worn a suit of that caliber. Perhaps if I did in either case, I'd better understand their value.

    Obviously extreme examples, but you get the point. Try something to better understand the value for yourself. It may have some...or none, when all is said and done. There are no guarantees in life with anything, just experiences.

    If your happy with the sound your getting now, then pay no mind to anything and simply enjoy your tunes. Nothing wrong with that at all. If your the curious type when it comes to cables, I have a few simple rules for you.

    1- Only spend what you can afford.....have a budget in mind.

    2- Buy used....to further the bang for your buck. Plus should you not like xyz cable, you could re-sell a used cable and not lose much money if any at all.

    3- Ask for recommendations. Put more weight on the advice from those you think are more aligned with your preferences in sound and music or have similar gear to work with. This vastly narrows your search, and limits the risk of buying a cable you may not like. Not everything you try will be a winner.

    If you stick to those 3 rules, you'll be able to experience some different sound signatures with cables and not spend or lose boat loads of coin. Once you find a sound signature within a brand of cables you like, then you can explore their higher series of cables. Every brand has a number of series and the improvements usually, but not always improve the higher up you go.

    I hope my ramblings help you make sense of it all. I realize too some of this audio stuff is hard to fathom for us old f a r t s. Nothing ventured, nothing gained though, right ? Since we are both of....um...age, just a reminder that we have learned things over the coarse of our lives not from the things we did right, but the many things we did wrong. In audio, too many are afraid to learn things, because they are afraid of being wrong, and thus costing them money in the process. So they never try anything and stay stagnant.

    That's the beauty of this forum, you have resources....a fantastic membership with all sorts of experience from the most mundane systems, to DIY stuff, computers and HT, digital, up to high end systems that cost as much as a new Mercedes. Use it when it's appropriate for you is all I'm sayin'. Fantastic people here, pick their brains when your need arises. No hurry, no pushing....your in the drivers seat. Good luck to you.

    Hi Tony:

    Thanks for the advice.

    I know you have a much nicer system than I have and you've been at this stuff much longer than I have. I am happy for you and hope you get daily enjoyment. Some people put 300K into motor homes that they seldom use and they sit in their driveways! Nice audio equipment trounces the motor home idea. Especially with Motel 6s all around. I rather have a $5,000 Italian suit and the shoes that go with them than the motor home. Some people do both.

    Probably for the next few years, I will have 12 gauge copper speaker wires and better mid-fi cables. Just getting what I'm doing done takes almost all of my niggard abilities (Svenska for frugal on steroids). Before I branch out and try higher end cables, I need to do first things first. If it all sounds great after I'm done, I would probably prefer to buy 5.1 Dolby concert videos instead of spending a boat load on cables. The concert video angle is what tipped the scale for me from going from 2.1 stereo to 5.1 surround. A great sounding mid-fi system, not audiophile level, has been my target all along. Basically, I want to get to the best sound I can within a certain budget, and then be happy with what I have.

    Cool man, you go at your own pace, make small improvements when and where you can. Audio isn't a race....we all just get to a point that we like what we hear from our systems and can afford it.

    Many of us have been in your spot though, especially when something new comes out. Concert BR Discs can sound awesome, but because of that one wonders how much better it can sound, ...if...you changed this or that.

    See what I'm sayin' ? Though we all have different wallets that keeps us in check, if we want to eat next week or pay the mortgage. Just be comfortable in what you spend, happy in what you hear, and enjoy your music how you see fit. That's it, no Harvard degree needed to figure this stuff out. :)
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • befuddle
    befuddle Posts: 126
    Options
    I've found a good way to get acquainted with expert advise pertaining to audio is to go to You Tube and type- [ RMAF Audio Seminars] there is over 100 seminars dealing with the full range of audio topics from past festivals
  • Gatecrasher
    Gatecrasher Posts: 1,550
    Options
    While the opinions of self-proclaimed "experts" can help point you in the right direction (or not) in selecting audio equipment, I've found that the best way to tell if a so-called upgrade has made an improvement in your audio system is to trust your own ears. That's all that really matters.

    If you have to smoke a joint to convince yourself that it sounds better, the chances are that you just wasted your money on the "upgrade".
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,056
    Options
    F1nut wrote: »
    mantis wrote: »
    I however have learned from the industries best and learned one common thing coming from engineers who make wire and who make the equipment that needs to be connected to that wire. Once you achieve the goal of passing along the signal from A to B there is nothing more you can do to make anything better. You can certainly harm the signal with poor designed wire, in proper gauge and a ton of other factors like EMI and RF interference.

    And yet your current flavor of the month cable company makes a multitude of versions from inexpensive entry to expensive TOTL, so if what you learned from the engineers at AudioQuest is that once you achieve the goal of passing along the signal from A to B there is nothing more you can do to make anything better then why do you think they make all those versions?


    I've been using Audioquest cables since 2004 so I wouldn't consider them a flavor of the month. It's 2017 if you haven't checked the calendar lately.
    As far as who I heard that statement from was not just audioquest but from many Audio and Video manufactures. To name a few would be B&W , Definitive Technology, Audio Control, NAD , Harman International , Theil , Cardas the list goes on and on man.
    So to answer your question about why do they make so many cables is easy. They built the best cables then can in the WEL signature series spare no expense . Then from there they build down to make more affordable priced cables for people who can't afford perfection but want better quality cables at their respected price points.
    This is true of the brands I have come to respect and that list is very short.
    Audioquest
    Cardas
    Kimber Kable
    As a consumer you can call them at any time to get any info you need. You don't have to be a professional like myself to get this info.

    I stick with Audioquest as I find them to be the best overall cables in the industry. Nothing made at any price IMO is better, nothing. Thats my opinion and we don't have to share it. Your a MIT guy and as I am not for many reason, I respect that. You have your reasons why you feel they are the best cables for your system and I'm sure you have plenty of reasons why. We don't have to agree.

    This thread sucks as usual and why I tend not to get that involved. My advise has been given and I'm leaving it at that.

    Carry on.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,056
    Options
    tonyb wrote: »
    Seriously Dan ?, in all due respect, NOBODY here is out to make money on the dude by our recommendations, or steer him towards purchasing anything he's uncomfortable with.

    Many have their favorite brands they like, including you, but I would never suggest those brands to anyone who couldn't afford them or I thought would produce bad synergy....and certainly don't make money off of anyone or get kick backs from any brand.

    If anything, we use our collective knowledge on cable brands, places to buy them, to SAVE people money. To suggest any of us are here to profit from our recommendations, or steer people in a direction they are uncomfortable with is mighty offensive not only to me but the forum in general.

    I was speaking directly to the thread starter not to the general public with my comments and I was referring to myself not anyone else on the forum.
    We have a bunch of really good people in here but many who don't know our group could think I or anyone else who recommends a brand could have a vested interest which I do not.
    I did explain in my response that I would lay out what I would recommend him in Audioquest and he could take that list and compare it to any wire company. I was trying to give him price points of what I would do if I owned his system.
    I have not seen his entire system so I have no idea what to recommend until he posts it.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,311
    Options
    Do you have some specific examples? If they are as bad as you have said, such examples should be easy to come by.
    I have never been onto that site. I have been a moderator of 2 different audio forums for a combined time of 16 years or so and I have read many comments over the years that this site (I believe Audioholics is the one) claims that all amps and cables are alike.

    Maybe not every member but from what I understand, the vast majority. I've even seen them from time to time invade this forum to teach us "the way". Please forgive me if I referred to the wrong site but I'm pretty sure that's the one I'm thinking of. They pop up on the radar all the time with comments of delusion when it comes to audio and the reproductive effort thereof.

    Perhaps a veteran of this forum can confirm or correct me. I have zero desire to visit that site for any reason, including this one to be honest.

    Tom

    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,789
    Options
    mantis wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    mantis wrote: »
    I however have learned from the industries best and learned one common thing coming from engineers who make wire and who make the equipment that needs to be connected to that wire. Once you achieve the goal of passing along the signal from A to B there is nothing more you can do to make anything better. You can certainly harm the signal with poor designed wire, in proper gauge and a ton of other factors like EMI and RF interference.

    And yet your current flavor of the month cable company makes a multitude of versions from inexpensive entry to expensive TOTL, so if what you learned from the engineers at AudioQuest is that once you achieve the goal of passing along the signal from A to B there is nothing more you can do to make anything better then why do you think they make all those versions?


    I've been using Audioquest cables since 2004 so I wouldn't consider them a flavor of the month. It's 2017 if you haven't checked the calendar lately.
    As far as who I heard that statement from was not just audioquest but from many Audio and Video manufactures. To name a few would be B&W , Definitive Technology, Audio Control, NAD , Harman International , Theil , Cardas the list goes on and on man.
    So to answer your question about why do they make so many cables is easy. They built the best cables then can in the WEL signature series spare no expense . Then from there they build down to make more affordable priced cables for people who can't afford perfection but want better quality cables at their respected price points.
    This is true of the brands I have come to respect and that list is very short.
    Audioquest
    Cardas
    Kimber Kable
    As a consumer you can call them at any time to get any info you need. You don't have to be a professional like myself to get this info.

    I stick with Audioquest as I find them to be the best overall cables in the industry. Nothing made at any price IMO is better, nothing. Thats my opinion and we don't have to share it. Your a MIT guy and as I am not for many reason, I respect that. You have your reasons why you feel they are the best cables for your system and I'm sure you have plenty of reasons why. We don't have to agree.

    This thread sucks as usual and why I tend not to get that involved. My advise has been given and I'm leaving it at that.

    Carry on.

    Now Dan, I know you have not been using AudioQuest since 2004, but whatever.

    So, you've acknowledged that cable A can pass the signal better than cable B from the same company. Thank you.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,789
    Options
    While the opinions of self-proclaimed "experts" can help point you in the right direction (or not) in selecting audio equipment, I've found that the best way to tell if a so-called upgrade has made an improvement in your audio system is to trust your own ears. That's all that really matters.

    If you have to smoke a joint to convince yourself that it sounds better, the chances are that you just wasted your money on the "upgrade".

    For once, I agree with you.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,311
    edited April 2017
    Options
    Hi Tom:

    Part of the problem some people may have with Audioholics is that they lean heavily on a scientific approach while others may instead lean more heavily on subjective evaluation.

    Audioholics does have several articles that debunk some elaborate claims about some speaker cables and other connects made by well known cable manufacturers. They call their claims "snake oil." Then they explain why. There is nothing wrong with this. The snake oil assertion refers to the selling of wonder cure drugs back in the unregulated 1800s (before the Food and Drug Administration). They apply electrical engineering science to testing products and fact checking claims by cable mfgs, or amp mfgs, etc. They test the specs given for various speakers.

    What they do should help keep the audio industry more honest than if no one was checking it out and evaluating claims, given specs, etc.

    Many people do not like someone roasting their sacred cow speaker cable or other audio product and either exposing some of the claims as false or giving it a 2 or 3 star rating. I'm not surprised that Audioholics has both a loyal following and a vocal opposition.
    Yup, I need no verification now. That's the site.

    I believe one our esteemed members here has a quote in his signature from a very wise person. Perhaps it was Nelson Pass.........[EDIT:] I actually I looked it up. It was.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".

    Please pay particular attention to what this quote states. Read it. Study it and learn from it. This is one of the greatest audio related quotes I have ever ran across and it would be included in my signature but alas, it was taken by Heiney9. He gets the credit for such an AWESOME, genuine, completely accurate and truthful quote.

    Tom

    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
    Options
    DSkip wrote: »
    AH is also heavily invested in home theater. I find it almost impossible to determine cables in a HT rig, with compromised items like a receiver in the chain and visuals to draw attention away.

    Normally for HT enthusiasts I never recommend cable upgrades. There are other areas that improve their experiences with less investment.
    To a request in Kansas. Ryan said don't bring up cables
  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    Options
    Here in Tacoma, WA, my power got briefly knocked down (but not out!) and my computer lost power and rebooted.

    You should drive up to Poulsbo and visit Shunyata. You might learn something.

    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • Gatecrasher
    Gatecrasher Posts: 1,550
    Options
    I think the argument about different audio cable manufacturers bears a lot of resemblance to the argument about which motor oil is better.

    Every one has an opinion about the issue but very few can produce any compelling data to support their loyalty other than hearsay, second-hand info, biased experimental data, and blind loyalty.

    Just go look online at the two issues and then substitute "motor oil" for "audio cable".

    lol
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,311
    Options
    This right here is why you are discounted as a legitimate source for information.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • Gatecrasher
    Gatecrasher Posts: 1,550
    Options
    It's funny the similarities between the two subjects.

    Both have tons of options and loyal followings but except for a few legitimate examples once and a while, most of the reasoning is pure opinion with very little data to back it up. But boy do some people have strong opinions!

    For instance, with motor oil you'll hear stuff like "My engine seems to start-up and perform better." Well that's good but it doesn't really say a whole lot as far as if Valvoline is better than any other oil.

    Or

    With speaker wires you'll hear stuff like "Brand A seems to bring out the bass and crisper highs" (or something like that).

    Again that's good I guess but hardly compelling. Try arguing the point with either and you are likely to receive a personal attack of some sort. lol

    I saw F1 make the comment that all copper wire isn't the same. Well I might tend to believe that to be true but within reason does it really translate to a noticeable difference in sound? Is it really enough to be detected with the human ear?

    If you were to blindfold me and set me in a room with the two brands of the same gage copper wire would I be able to tell them apart? Without smoking the joint of course. lol

    Here's a big question.

    Do $5,000 speaker cables sound better than $2,000 speaker cables?

    How about $500 speaker cables?

    Could the difference be noticeable enough to differentiate in an unbiased scientific blindfold test - every time to every person?

    I for one don't know the answer but for that kind of money you'd think it should be.
  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
    edited April 2017
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    F1nut wrote: »
    There's so much more to quality cable than gauge.
    True... ....but
    BlueFox wrote: »
    Generally speaking, it is better to have a larger speaker wire than smaller.
    YUP! Size matters! No amount of "whatever" the vendor hawks about their smaller, but "superior" cable can compensate for the higher resistance.
    BlueFox wrote: »
    ...difference really depends on the length of the cable runs, and the level of the gear and speakers. IMO.
    so true especially for highly reactive loads, gross impedance swings below 4 ohms, or worse, both.
    How much should my cables cost?
    a VERY dangerous question on this forum

    To the OP: mo' bigga, mo' betta.


    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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