speaker analysis

marvda1
marvda1 Posts: 4,862
when you listen to a pair of speakers for the first time what is the first thing you listen for?
for me, i zero in on tonality first then balance, extension, pace, imaging, and soundstage width, height and depth.
how about you?
Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
Puritan PSM156

Comments

  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,042
    Unless something is very obvious with them that's hard to not hear first (very bright horns) I'm putting on Tool "Lateralus" and listening to the imaging.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • I can tell you the last, $,$$$.
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,124
    I would say tonality. Been to shows and as you walk down halls you will here sounds that grab you and pull you into the room. Been surprised several times with system that performed way above their pay grade.
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
    Tone first and then how they can present a stage. Of course, depending on the front end gear, the signal sent is just as important.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,230
    Wow, that's an open-ended question.

    I start with overall presentation, then frequency, clarity, then I look for any congestion and evaluate overall coherancy. At this point, if I am impressed, I'll get into the finer subtlties, bass and mid-bass response, sound staging and imaging, texture, natural rolloff, tone and a pristine upper most top end reproduction.

    I'll inquire about what's upstream, what cabling and power components are used as well as the ohm rating of the speakers and wattage and type of the amplifier. At this point, if the speaker is impressive enough, I'll ask to listen to a track or tracks that I am intimately familiar with.

    Here is where I get into the intricacies of the reproduction, I.E., height, depth, width, spatial locational cues, aura of individual instruments and singers, the separation thereof and how they all lay out within the sound stage.

    I ask myself if they are good enough for casual listening listening or critical listening? Could they perform exceedingly well on both or just one? Do they sound good at low listening levels as well as when you crank it up or are they somewhat limited to a particular volume? Is the size of the recording venue accurate, bloated or smaller than it should be?

    Can you clearly distinguish when multiple drum kicks are represented during busy passages and is the impact of a drum strike equally, yet separately distinguished during the same bust passages? During these busy passages, is the bass guitar and strike of a guitar separate and still distinguishable from the rest of the instruments or singer? Does the shimmer of a cymbal strike shimmer and fade off naturally or do I just hear a quick "Tsst" and that's it? Can I distinguish if it's an unwanted artifact or a finger sliding or lightly plucking a guitar string?

    I look for accuracy but there is a line here that can (in my book) be crossed. After evaluating these and more aspects of a speaker I audition for the first time, the most important question I ask myself is this;

    Do the speakers move me to the point of wanting to tap my toes or do I just sit there and listen?

    Tom

    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,230
    One more thing I forgot to mention. Is the speaker able to let you move? There is nothing more frustrating to me than a speaker in which you are limited to a sweet spot that resides in a 1" swath. If I can't shift and get a little bit more comfortable whilst in the sweet spot, then all other evaluations become a mute point as this would make the speakers no longer a "contender".

    Ya' GOTTA be comfortable when listening for hours on end, otherwise, your enjoyment level drops considerably.

    One last thing and I swear I'll shut up. If the speaker involuntarily gave me goosebumps? I'm ploppin' my big ol' but down and enjoying the music.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,230
    Okay, I lied.

    Is the speaker good at one genre of music or does it only shine on one? Can it do heavy rock music as well as a simple jazz ensemble? Is it as enjoyable to listen too with an orchestra as it is with listening to an organ or drum solo? Do musical genres and silent passages sound just as crisp and clear or enjoyable as others or is the speaker a one genre aspect type speaker?

    Sorry but this is almost a non-ending question and the more I think about it, the more comes up. I'm sure something else will pop into mind as soon as I hit "enter".

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,521
    General tone, blend of tweeter/midrange with vocals, LINEARITY, depth/accuracy of bass.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,627
    Ease of listening. Tonality is part of that, and anything that stands out, usually is not right.
    Some of my favorite female vocals, usually will pinpoint, the good, the bad and the truly great or ugly!
  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,505
    Staging first for me.
    Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound
  • Legender
    Legender Posts: 478
    Thanks @treitz3 ... very enlightening and insightful for those of us wading in the kiddie pool of sound and wanting to swim with the big boys. I found your analysis process informative. I find this forum has a wide range of experience and knowledge and appreciate those who take the time to share.
    Music: Oppo103 - Parasound JC2 - Parasound A21- SDA 3.1
    Theater: Denon 3808 - B&K 7500/Emotiva XPA-3- RTi12, CSi5, RTiA7x4, PSW505
    Sleeping: Marantz 70005 - Harman Kardon 2400 - SDA 2
    2 Channel: Cary 306 SACD - Canary Audio 906 - Pass Labs x250 - PS Audio Perfectwave DAC, Polk LSiM705, SVS SB13 Ultra
    Office: Dell Optiplex, Emotiva XDA-2, Adcom 5500, LSiM 703
    Spares: Yamaha CA-810; LSi 15; Kenwood Basic M2a, Yamaha M60/M80, Polk Monitor 7, SVS SB13 Ultra
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    I might agree with Tom in all those aspects. I too like a speaker that can do all things well with any genre. Your always going to find speakers that excel at some things, but then they may not at many other areas. Balance of quality sound I guess is a better way of putting it. A well balanced speaker and you don't have to worry about the genre of music and they are easy to listen to and tap your toes to.

    I might add, when auditioning speakers you have to take note of the upstream electronic and cabling. You really have no idea what a speaker is capable of until the upstream gear is of decent quality.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Tone first and then how they can present a stage. Of course, depending on the front end gear, the signal sent is just as important.

    Pay attention, Tony. Grab another cup o java and reflect. :*
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    lightman1 wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Tone first and then how they can present a stage. Of course, depending on the front end gear, the signal sent is just as important.

    Pay attention, Tony. Grab another cup o java and reflect. :*

    I'm too broke to even pay attention Russ. lol
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • Legender
    Legender Posts: 478
    Like many specialized fields, abbreviations or unique terminology exists and is used among the experts that can cause newbies to get lost. There is a learning curve that must be climbed if you're tackling this new.
    I can remember in the 70s's when I asked my dad what a tweeter was, he had no idea. Of, course now it means something entirely different to some.
    Quick search found this online that might be helpful to some of us:

    If you’re not an audiophile, you’ll discover that a lot of the language you read in trade magazines or hear at retailers is somewhat esoteric. An understanding of some basic terms should make it easier to establish a dialogue with your salespeople and help them help you.

    TREBLE: We’ve all experienced speakers that overemphasize the treble—the result is a sound we often refer to as “thin” or “tinny”. Well-defined treble integrates with the rest of the sound, providing fullness. If the treble lacks power, the sound is dull and lifeless.

    MIDRANGE: What we tend to hear most clearly and distinctly occurs in the midrange. It stands to reason that imperfections here will generally stand out. Clear, powerful vocals will generally indicate a good midrange; if you’re uncertain, it might pay to listen to a spoken word recording and listen for a muffled or nasal sound quality, which would come from poor midrange response.

    BASS: Despite what you may hear on the city streets, good-sounding bass should not overwhelm treble and midrange. Clarity is the key; the bass notes should not be too heavy or too thin. Remember, though, that, if you like the sound of the treble and midrange on a given speaker, a weaker bass sound can be enhanced using a subwoofer.

    A couple of other considerations enter into the mix…and you’ll get bonus points for being able to discuss them intelligently with your salesperson!

    SOUNDSTAGE: The best thing about great speakers is that they give you the sense of listening to the music in a concert hall, arena or coffeehouse. If the speakers accurately reproduce the soundstage, you should be able to pinpoint the location of the individual musicians from left to right…and even derive a pretty accurate sense of depth.

    DYNAMIC RANGE: Virtually any speaker can play loudly. Excellent speakers can play loudly—or at a whisper—without losing the clarity of each instrument. That ability defines its dynamic range.


    It's a journey more than a destination. Enjoy the travel.
    Music: Oppo103 - Parasound JC2 - Parasound A21- SDA 3.1
    Theater: Denon 3808 - B&K 7500/Emotiva XPA-3- RTi12, CSi5, RTiA7x4, PSW505
    Sleeping: Marantz 70005 - Harman Kardon 2400 - SDA 2
    2 Channel: Cary 306 SACD - Canary Audio 906 - Pass Labs x250 - PS Audio Perfectwave DAC, Polk LSiM705, SVS SB13 Ultra
    Office: Dell Optiplex, Emotiva XDA-2, Adcom 5500, LSiM 703
    Spares: Yamaha CA-810; LSi 15; Kenwood Basic M2a, Yamaha M60/M80, Polk Monitor 7, SVS SB13 Ultra
  • jawhog
    jawhog Posts: 444
    I put on a few choice tracks I've used for years and listen for how specific passages sound. I live for crunchy guitar so mid range balance is important. Queens of the Stone Age "the lost art of keeping a secret" has this amazing guitar tone that has to sound great for the speaker to have a chance with me, then the chorus has these thunderous bass overtones that you wouldn't even know are there with many speakers. It's a great favorite test song of mine. Then if that sounds good I put on Fool in the Rain, which has a very forward mix, can sound very weird on speakers with pronounced mids. If both those songs pass the basic screening test then I go for longer listening sessions.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,922
    so -- 9.3 times out of 11 ;) this is the first track I play (a real copy, not the YT link) when I evaluate something new to me -- be it loudspeakers or an amplifier or (heh) wires or whatever.

    https://youtu.be/rdT58JW1yF8
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,031
    Speakers are a tuff one for me. I try to go in very open minded and let them move me. I look for an emotional connection first. I don't study what they can do or not , I go at them as if I was checking out a new band. I just listen and go for a ride. If they move me then I go into what they can and can not do but none of that matters to me if I don't feel it.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • MrBuhl
    MrBuhl Posts: 2,419
    steveinaz wrote: »
    General tone, blend of tweeter/midrange with vocals, LINEARITY, depth/accuracy of bass.

    ^^ nailed it for me, at first listen for me its always about how balanced they are, top to bottom ^^ Many things come in later, but it starts with balanced.

    9 times out of 10 I use Dire Straits - Making Movies to evaluate.

    VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
    VA 2 Channel Focal Electra 926 speakers, Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp (Tutay mods), Eastern Electric Minimax CDP (Scott Nixon mods), Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Parks Audio Budgie Phono Pre , Audioengine B1 streamer, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / PS Audio power cables
    Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000

    Polk SDA1c modded
    Polk CRS+ 4.1TL modded (need veneer)
    Polk SDA2BTL (fully modded)
    A/L 1000VA Dreadnought Canare 4s11 SDA cable
    SACD Marantz DV8300
    Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD
    Yamaha YP-D6
    Soundcraftsmen PCR800
    Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
    Vincent MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp
    Pho-700 Phono Pre
    Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's






  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,230
    Okay, it's been two years and we have some newer members here now. I thought that this was an interesting thread that never really gained traction. It still may not but I figured that I'd give it a bump for the new decade...

    What say you?

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,922
    edited January 2020
    I already played, but may I play again?*

    So, I like to use the track Ghost in This House on the Alison Krauss and Union Station Live album as a test for... midrange issues.

    When she sings, e.g., in the first verse:
    ...I don't keep this place up,
    I just keep the lights dim...
    from the word "up" on through the next line, her voice is painfully piercing on -- ahem -- Klipsch Cornwalls. She excites that infamous Klipsch "squawker" horn resonance.

    This track is a go-to test for me when it comes to midrange reproduction. If she doesn't get shrill, I'm happy.

    The current Frankenaltec configuration does a pretty good job with this track.

    The album is (or at least was) an audiophile staple** -- but, on the off-chance any of you doesn't have a copy --here's a YT-grade version to give you an idea.

    https://youtu.be/dWRGZaHb8xE

    __________________
    * this was a rhetorical question. B)
    ** and please, please, don't tell me that one may purchase audiophile staples. I don't wanna know...
  • It's those first few test tracks checking for a few specific things like image and soundstage and general clarity/detail but really its this--->
    ^^ nailed it for me, at first listen for me its always about how balanced they are, top to bottom ^^ Many things come in later, but it starts with balanced.
    Analog Source: Rega P3-24 Exact 2 w/GT delrin platter & Neo TT-PSU Digital Source: Lumin T2 w/Roon (NUC) DAC: Denafrips Pontus II Phono Preamp: Rega Aria MK3 Preamp: Rogue RP-7 Amp: Pass X150.8 Speakers: Joseph Audio Perspective 2, Audio Physic Tempo Plus Cables: Morrow M4 ICs & Audio Art SC-5 ePlus, Shunyata PCs Misc: Shunyata Hydra Delta D6, VTI rack, GIK acoustic panels
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    edited January 2020
    That "Ghost in the House" clip tested my PC speaker system and this system "Failed".

    I had to turn it down. I have a Harman Kardon PC system. It plays most music great. It has an 8" sub so bass hits great and tight .

    I'll have to look and see if I have the CD of hers that has that song on it.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • halen
    halen Posts: 675
    Today, the first thing I would do is not look at what brand the speakers or components are.

    I have a basis for what I like in Floorstanders, Bookies, and Flookies. Flookies are floorstanders disguised as bookies. Huge bookies.

    Does the sound come to me or pull me in.

    Now before all of this begins, I try to judge the size of the speakers versus the room. Most places do not have the correct combination. Overloaded Bass, artificial soundstage( easy to confuse with reflections ), too many hard, reflective surfaces and ambient noise.

    I will then play music I am familiar with to establish a baseline. It also depends on my mood that day. Some days I like music that pulls me in, other days I like music that comes at me.

    If I like it, I would look for a way to bring that speaker into my environment. Without getting too much into everything involved, I also found that solid amps bring the muscle but dacs bring it to life.

    Cheers. Need to visit you again Marvin!

    Halen
  • marvda1
    marvda1 Posts: 4,862
    any time!
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
    Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
    Puritan PSM156
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,230
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    So, I like to use the track Ghost in This House on the Alison Krauss and Union Station Live album as a test for... midrange issues.

    Her voice is a great test for female voice testing and she does that on more than just that one song. She has the ability to make a rig shine with beautiful sounds that send chill bumps down your entire body or completely shred a system to where one has to turn it down, stop the music or cover their ears. Not many female voices can do that on many songs that they sing. She is definitely unique...

    ...but on the right system? Oh, so wonderfully beautiful to listen too.

    Tom

    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,922
    Tony M wrote: »
    That "Ghost in the House" clip tested my PC speaker system and this system "Failed".

    I had to turn it down. I have a Harman Kardon PC system. It plays most music great. It has an 8" sub so bass hits great and tight .

    I'll have to look and see if I have the CD of hers that has that song on it.

    Yeah, you'll want to use the original recording to do anything serious -- this is the album; it has a certain amount of audiophile cred, so I think it's available in several formats/morphs (some probably pretty 'spensive). I just have the redbook CD, which sounds very good.

    37wwxcp71j1r.png
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    edited January 2020
    I looked up front and found 4-AK & US Cds but neither were like the above. Neither had "Ghost in the House" on them either. Maybe along the side wall.
    Checking them will take a long while from now. I think I have it though.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • halen
    halen Posts: 675
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Wow, that's an open-ended question.

    I start with overall presentation, then frequency, clarity, then I look for any congestion and evaluate overall coherancy. At this point, if I am impressed, I'll get into the finer subtlties, bass and mid-bass response, sound staging and imaging, texture, natural rolloff, tone and a pristine upper most top end reproduction.

    I'll inquire about what's upstream, what cabling and power components are used as well as the ohm rating of the speakers and wattage and type of the amplifier. At this point, if the speaker is impressive enough, I'll ask to listen to a track or tracks that I am intimately familiar with.

    Here is where I get into the intricacies of the reproduction, I.E., height, depth, width, spatial locational cues, aura of individual instruments and singers, the separation thereof and how they all lay out within the sound stage.

    I ask myself if they are good enough for casual listening listening or critical listening? Could they perform exceedingly well on both or just one? Do they sound good at low listening levels as well as when you crank it up or are they somewhat limited to a particular volume? Is the size of the recording venue accurate, bloated or smaller than it should be?

    Can you clearly distinguish when multiple drum kicks are represented during busy passages and is the impact of a drum strike equally, yet separately distinguished during the same bust passages? During these busy passages, is the bass guitar and strike of a guitar separate and still distinguishable from the rest of the instruments or singer? Does the shimmer of a cymbal strike shimmer and fade off naturally or do I just hear a quick "Tsst" and that's it? Can I distinguish if it's an unwanted artifact or a finger sliding or lightly plucking a guitar string?

    I look for accuracy but there is a line here that can (in my book) be crossed. After evaluating these and more aspects of a speaker I audition for the first time, the most important question I ask myself is this;

    Do the speakers move me to the point of wanting to tap my toes or do I just sit there and listen?

    Tom

    Is that you... Little Finger from GoT, speaking to Sansa? Hehehe