Bi-wiring

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Marcial
Marcial Posts: 5
in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
I got a pair of PolkAudio Monitor 70 speakers a while ago but never thought of trying the bi-wiring connection. My question is simple: have any of you who bi-wired your speakers noticed any significant difference in the sound compared to having the basic connection with one double wire (red and black) to each speaker without removing the brass bridge or connector between hi and low frequencies on the back of the speakers?
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  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,648
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    Most will agree that just replacing the cheap brass jumper with a piece of quality wire will yield the same if not better results for less coin...
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  • deronb1
    deronb1 Posts: 5,021
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    I bi-wire my bookies. I use the bi-amp mode of my AVR (which isn't really bi-amping at all) but it allows me to run 12 ga wire to the bottoms and 14 ga to the tops. I like the sound, but honesty, not sure i would notice the difference from traditional in a blind test.
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 7,658
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    Hello,
    I checked with the engineering guys and the binding post jumper plates on the Monitor Series speakers are made of gold plated nickel, not brass. Bi-wiring should be one of experiments anyone tries as part of learning about their audio system. Perhaps even trying combinations of different wire designs for the two speaker sections? A thicker, lower resistance for the bass section and a thiner lower inductance wire for the upper frequencies?
    Cheers, Ken
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  • mrloren
    mrloren Posts: 2,454
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    I wound not do it. Monitor 70 like a lot of power, I would consider saving for an amp. In the mean time I would make sure your jumpers are making good contact. I have pulled 8 off of RTi's and 4 from monitors and none made good contact. they were all high in the middle.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.
    Family Room:LG QNED80 75", Onkyo RZ50 Emotiva XPA3 GEN3 Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM. Main: Polk LsiM 705Center: Polk LSiM 704CFront High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT Surrounds: Polk S15 Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
    Bed Room; Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270Main: Polk Signature S20Center: Polk Signature S35Rear: Polk R15 Sub: SVS SB2000
    Working Warehouse; Yamaha A-S301, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc Plok TSX550T SVS PB2000 Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
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  • Top Dog
    Top Dog Posts: 4
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    I spent a large part of yesterday afternoon trying out Bi-wiring and Bi-amping my TSx550t's (I have a Yamaha RX-V675 receiver). I used 12 gauge on the bottom and my old 16 gauge 'lamp cord' speaker wires for the top. To my ears (admittedly a long ways from audiophile), the difference was almost indistinguishable, except that they were a bit louder at the same volume setting when bi-amped.
    Your mileage may vary.
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  • PerfectCreature
    PerfectCreature Posts: 1,456
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    I am bi-wired with Rocket33s.
    I believe that the quality in sound I "believe" I heard was due to the higher quality pure silver banana plugs, the silver and pure ofc copper inside the wire, and the massive amount of shielding for those wires.
    It really gets down to small details, such as what sort of metal is used to solder the banana plugs to the wire, is it even soldered at all?
    What kind of wire is it, is it copper plated zinc? (Popular in car power wires) or is it silver plated copper? Pure copper? How about pure silver (expensive!).

    I spent hours and hours going back and forth from having one speaker on A channel and one speaker on B channel with my rocket 33s, and just "lamp wire" as it is refereed too, and I am almost positive that I heard a fuller and more robust sound stage from the Rocket33s. I just liked what I heard better.
    Perhaps it was a placebo, but I think not.

    Ultimately if you have quality equipment, why not have quality cables?
    Doesn't mean you need to spend $500 or even $1000 on cables, but at least use cables with better materials.
    Receiver
    Harman Kardon HK 3490
    Speakers
    Polk Audio Monitor 50s
    Subwoofer
    Klipsch KSW-100
    Cables
    AudioQuest Rocket 33s 10ft
    AudioQuest Optilink1 2m
    AudioQuest Alpha-Snake 25ft Interconnect
    AudioQuest HDMI-1 2m

    Alienware X51 R2
    PS4
    Samsung Smart TV 40" 1080p 3D
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  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,384
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    I still have some Rocket 33's and they made a difference over my then home made cables, give them some burn-in time and they will improve. I like the older AQ slate bi-wired cables better ( I think) as sometimes just something different makes me smile. but I'm still switching back & forth.
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
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  • PerfectCreature
    PerfectCreature Posts: 1,456
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    They have been well burned in. They have almost 6 years of use on them, I have to clean those silly silver banana plugs like once a year. I haven't done it yet, so they probably are pretty bad.
    I had tried to sell them, but ended up deciding to keep them. I had my eye on some Shotguns, but they slipped away.
    Receiver
    Harman Kardon HK 3490
    Speakers
    Polk Audio Monitor 50s
    Subwoofer
    Klipsch KSW-100
    Cables
    AudioQuest Rocket 33s 10ft
    AudioQuest Optilink1 2m
    AudioQuest Alpha-Snake 25ft Interconnect
    AudioQuest HDMI-1 2m

    Alienware X51 R2
    PS4
    Samsung Smart TV 40" 1080p 3D
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,794
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    I have to clean those silly silver banana plugs like once a year.

    Unlike oxidized copper, oxidized silver is still an excellent conductor, so no need to clean them.

    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
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    Top Dog wrote: »
    ...the difference was almost indistinguishable, except that they were a bit louder at the same volume setting when bi-amped.
    Bottom Line: can't say about the "bi-amping" but, in my experience mo' bigga wire, nets mo' louda speakas at the same volume setting.

    Sorry if this reply stirs up trouble.

    Merry Christmas, tony
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
    edited January 2015
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    deronb1 wrote: »
    Bi-wire... ...allows me to run 12 ga wire to the bottoms and 14 ga to the tops.
    Have you considered "single wiring"
    W/12 ga to one channel? Then turn up to "above moderate." One channel may be louder.

    Did something like that MANY years ago. I internally rewired my speakers, one at a time, w/ 12 ga wire. I gave them a listen BEFORE rewiring the other speaker. The rewired one was louder than the other.

    Side note to you & Topdog:
    right now PE selling 10 ga,
    50' lengths ~ 76 cents/ft
    100' lengths ~ 64 cents/ft
    Very inexpensive gage increase fer yer bottoms

    Happy New Year, tony
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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  • MetropolisLake
    MetropolisLake Posts: 128
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    PerfectCreature wrote: »
    I am bi-wired with Rocket33s.
    I believe that the quality in sound I "believe" I heard was due to the higher quality pure silver banana plugs

    You realize you could have been rich, right? Google James Randi's $1 million bet.

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,794
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    Please take that rigged Randi BS elsewhere.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
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    Can't wait for the Russell report next. lol
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • MetropolisLake
    MetropolisLake Posts: 128
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    I'd love to watch somebody differentiate between banana plugs in a blind test. :) I'd seriously be amazed and impressed.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,794
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    Try it for YOURSELF, then your opinion has some merit.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
    edited January 2015
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    MetropolisLake wrote: »
    I'd love to watch somebody differentiate between banana plugs in a blind test. :) I'd seriously be amazed and impressed.

    If you look hard enough, you may find harder evidence in charts that show frequency response between various plugs.

    Why would there be a difference ? Area of contact surface, metallurgy used for starters.

    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,640
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    Why do we have to do this over and over and over and over and over and...

    beating-a-dead-horse-call-me-maybe.jpg
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • MetropolisLake
    MetropolisLake Posts: 128
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    Just curious, has anybody ever gotten an external amplifier AND bi-wired? It seems to be only the receiver crowd who does it.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
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    MetropolisLake wrote: »
    Just curious, has anybody ever gotten an external amplifier AND bi-wired? It seems to be only the receiver crowd who does it.

    Uh....many do. Where ya going with that ?

    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • MetropolisLake
    MetropolisLake Posts: 128
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    tonyb wrote: »
    Uh....many do. Where ya going with that ?

    It was a pretty straightforward question and I even explained why I was asking. Simply curious. I've never heard of both an external amp and bi-wiring.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
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    MetropolisLake wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    Uh....many do. Where ya going with that ?

    It was a pretty straightforward question and I even explained why I was asking. Simply curious. I've never heard of both an external amp and bi-wiring.

    Then you need to get out more, lol.

    The receiver crowd, as you put it, are into ghetto bi-amping, which isn't really bi-amping at all.

    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • MetropolisLake
    MetropolisLake Posts: 128
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    tonyb wrote: »
    Then you need to get out more, lol.

    Yeah I'm not into music much, mostly movies. Been wanting to build a dedicated two channel rig with a turntable though so I skim the two channel forums. With movies, bi-amping/wiring seems like a waste of two perfectly good channels that can drive something else so I've been skeptical. :)

    tonyb wrote: »
    The receiver crowd, as you put it, are into ghetto bi-amping, which isn't really bi-amping at all.

    Yeah it does seem kinda ghetto to me, not convinced it gains you much. Using an actual external amp is intriguing though.
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
    edited January 2015
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    MetropolisLake wrote: »
    I've never heard of both an external amp and bi-wiring.
    I "bi-amped" my CC W/a Hafler XL280 early in my HT tenure. I had (and still have!) lots of decent-to good 2 channel amps, the wire, & at that time plenty of space. So what the hey!

    These days, one of the 985 channels gets 'er done.

    Tony
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,794
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    Just curious, has anybody ever gotten an external amplifier AND bi-wired? It seems to be only the receiver crowd who does it.

    You're confusing bi-amping and bi-wiring.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • felipe
    felipe Posts: 423
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    Are there any electrical benefits/difference to bi wiring as oppose to using the jumpers...even if the jumpers were made of glod-plated copper?
    My Setup: Denon AVR X3600h, Polk Signature S50 Fronts w/ S30 Center and S15 Rears, LG UBK90 4K Player, TCL 6-Series 65”4k TV

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,794
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    felipe wrote: »
    Are there any electrical benefits/difference to bi wiring as oppose to using the jumpers...even if the jumpers were made of glod-plated copper?

    You will absolutely hear an improvement by replacing the stock jumper plates with high quality speaker cable. As for the possible benefits from bi-wiring, well just replacing the stock plate jumpers as noted will improve the sound and I personally do not think there is any other benefit from bi-wiring. YMMV.

    As for anything cable related posted or linked by the previous poster, my advice is to completely ignore it.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • felipe
    felipe Posts: 423
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    xcapri79 wrote: »
    felipe wrote: »
    Are there any electrical benefits/difference to bi wiring as oppose to using the jumpers...even if the jumpers were made of glod-plated copper?

    In my opinion, jumpers made from "glod-plated" copper would be "unglodly".
    What do others think, better than spearker cables..fact or fiction?

    Oops..just realized I wrote "glod"..meant to say gold ;).

    Thanks F1. I ask because one of my cousins invested some coin on b&w 686 s2 bookies. He's currently running them single wired with 12 AWG. According to b&w tech support, those jumpers are gold-plated copper as stated previously and that bi-wiring can improve the low-level detail. I told him about blue jeans cable, and he was looking at the canare 4s11 14/4 cable in bi-wire config using the welded locking nanners...

    My Setup: Denon AVR X3600h, Polk Signature S50 Fronts w/ S30 Center and S15 Rears, LG UBK90 4K Player, TCL 6-Series 65”4k TV

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  • felipe
    felipe Posts: 423
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    Anyone here heard of diagonal wiring a bi-wireable speaker? My cousin doesn't really want to spend extra $ if he doesn't have to...
    My Setup: Denon AVR X3600h, Polk Signature S50 Fronts w/ S30 Center and S15 Rears, LG UBK90 4K Player, TCL 6-Series 65”4k TV

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  • mikeyb128
    mikeyb128 Posts: 2,885
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    felipe wrote: »
    Anyone here heard of diagonal wiring a bi-wireable speaker? My cousin doesn't really want to spend extra $ if he doesn't have to...

    I did this with my 2 channel system while I waited for my Nordost jumpers. It did make a noticeable improvement. I used the jumpers from my lsim705's in the meantime. I actually quite liked it.

    2 channel:
    Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
    Theater:
    Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.

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