AMP/Receiver for Polk RTI A9s - recommendations

mabst73mabst73 Posts: 20
edited October 2013 in Forum Testing Area
Hello Polk fans,

Got a question for some of the vets out there. I just got a pair of Polk RTI A9s (love them) and I have them bi-amped to a YAMAHA RX-V773. It currently pushes 95watts a channel, again i have them bi-amped, but its just not cutting it...the speakers are barely alive.

What would you recommend?

- A new more powerful receiver, if so what kind?
OR
- an amp, again what kind and power should i use?

I'm new into the world of audio and would just like to get different opinions!

Thanks for any recommendations

-Mike
Post edited by mabst73 on

Comments

  • 4xoddic4xoddic Posts: 372
    edited September 2013
    I would think your RX-V77 has pre-outs for R & L fronts . . .

    I just posted this on another thread:

    I powered my front RTiA9s off a Pioneer SC-07 w/140 wpc ICE amps. Thought they sounded great for movies in a 11' X 19' room. I didn't care to listen to music. Upon adding a QSC GX7 725 watts per channel at 8 ohms, they came alive!

    QSC's GX line has RCA inputs & binding posts/banana jacks; so it's much simpler to hook up (no need for XLR cables).

    GX3 300 watts per channel at 8 ohms & GX5 500 watts per channel at 8 ohms

    There are a large # of listings on eWay for QSC GX amps. I purchased a B-stock, with no regrets. There's also a NYC shop that frequently lists QSC GXs "used." IMHO they're likely returns which a musician found lacking as a match to her instrument.

    IMHO, auditioning the RTiA9s with AVRs is not indicative of their performance with music. Your local "guitar shop" might rent you a QSC GX. These amps have a fan, audible until movie/music starts. A quieter fan can be installed.

    I've no doubt bragged about my RTiA9s on other threads:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/search.php?searchid=2685244
  • 4xoddic4xoddic Posts: 372
    edited September 2013
    I'm NOT suggesting the QSC GX pro amps are audiophilic. Most of the threads re: RTiA9s' need for power will pursue a well known audiophile brand which can be had on the used market, which is unrealistic IF you're bidding against everyone else thinking it will meet their needs. Cragskist? In my area = 12" JL subwoofers & Dr. Dre Beats suitable for combine harvesting.

    I went the pro amp NIB route based on $/Watt & musicians' threads (esp. Church musicians, 8<). At the time, I hadn't seen anyone else pushing the RTiA9s with >= 725W/channel. After my wife heard the improvement, it proved IF I threw $ at an audiophilic >= 500 W @ 8 ohm, I could plead with a reference point AND promise d-sonics/wyred4sound, etc. wouldn't have fan noise.
  • Inspector 24Inspector 24 Posts: 1,064
    edited September 2013
    Down
    RTiA9 - CSiA6 - FXiA6 - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 29,944
    edited September 2013
    Get an amp, period. Parasound, B&k, Adcom, and many others depending on budget. Personally I'd stay away from pro amps as suggested above if musicality is of any concern to you. You would also need 2 rca cables to hook up a 2 channel amp from the likes of Signal cable, Audioquest, Douglas connections, and a cast of others.
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,506
    edited September 2013
    First off, you don't have them bi-amped. That's not possible with any AVR, period. Second, you need a power amp to properly drive those speakers.

    Is this for 2 channel music only or also HT use?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • mabst73mabst73 Posts: 20
    edited October 2013
    F1nut wrote: »
    First off, you don't have them bi-amped. That's not possible with any AVR, period. Second, you need a power amp to properly drive those speakers.

    Is this for 2 channel music only or also HT use?


    What do you mean they are not bi-amped? Is it just not a true bi-amp? Current setup with the AVR is just a surround sound channel reassigned a L and R.

    I use it for both music and HT.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,506
    edited October 2013
    If it is not a true bi-amp, it's not bi-amping at all, period.

    The more channels you use on that AVR, the less power per channel it will provide because the power supply is not up for the task. Try driving the A9's normally instead, although you are still going to need a separate power amp to drive them properly.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • mabst73mabst73 Posts: 20
    edited October 2013
    I agree that I need an amp; I'm not looking to spend a ton of money on one though.

    Looking for 250-300watts. What would you recommend?
  • Inspector 24Inspector 24 Posts: 1,064
    edited October 2013
    In my experience You don't NEED more than a good high current 200-220wpc to make the a9's work, which will help keep things cheaper. I was extremely satisfied with 220wpc from the HCA-2003a. The HCA-3500 is just for fun and provided only very slight improvements over the 2003.

    Used Parasound 2003's 2200's can be had from $500-800, 2250's $900-1100, 3500's 1100-1700
    Emotiva while controversial around these parts is liked by those that own them and lots of bang for the buck with a warranty.

    Options are far and wide. Let's start with How much do you want to spend?
    Down
    RTiA9 - CSiA6 - FXiA6 - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000
  • mabst73mabst73 Posts: 20
    edited October 2013
    I wouldn't want to spend more than $400. What would be the best bang for my buck?

    I looked at the amp 4xoddic said and found this...a 300WPC for $300
    http://www.fullcompass.com/product/350007.html
  • Inspector 24Inspector 24 Posts: 1,064
    edited October 2013
    Pro audio equipment such as that may get the power but most say they don't actually sound very good.

    I have no experience with pro gear, but I'm sure others will chime in.

    Honestly, I think you'll have a tough time getting a good amp for $400. Everything I see that's decent and can provide the needed power for the a9's is over $500, more like $600.
    Down
    RTiA9 - CSiA6 - FXiA6 - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,015
    edited October 2013
    Adcom, para sound, rotel, nad, b&k.... Adcom 555 stands out as a solid investment for you. They hang around 3 bills and will continue to stay at that mark as far as I can tell. It's got respectable performance and is easy to move when it's time is up in your system.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,506
    edited October 2013
    It never ceases to amaze me the number of folks who spend good coin for new speakers only to realize they need a good amp to drive them because they didn't do their homework and want to or have to cheap out on the amp end.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • tonybtonyb Posts: 29,944
    edited October 2013
    Ditto ^^^^, but lets face it Jess, it's not like the old days when mass marketed speakers were easy to drive and receivers had some well built power supplies. Now it's the opposite. Those new to todays audio still think it's like the old days.
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • mabst73mabst73 Posts: 20
    edited October 2013
    Dskip - thanks for the options!
    Inspector 24 - what do i need to increase my price to?


    F1nut -As I said, I'm new. I can see that I went overboard on the speakers, but that is why I came here for help. As to say that I didn't do my homework...if I didn't know what to look for how could I find it? I see now that my receiver is weak for the speakers. Would you have recommendations on what to get?

    I'm just looking for some suggestions and if I need to up my price, then I can. I am just looking to drive these speakers the correct way without spending a crazy amount of money. I'm not looking for the best of the best or best brand. If a $600 amp can do the work of a $800amp and the only difference in price is the brand name that is ok with me....I'll take the $600 amp.

    Thanks to those who have given me options!
  • cfrizzcfrizz Posts: 13,044
    edited October 2013
    Sunfire TGP III PrePro, Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 405wpc 5 ch. Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony Bravia KDL-40R510C TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, SVS NSD-12 SB12 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers
  • mabst73mabst73 Posts: 20
    edited October 2013
    What are the opinions on a Carver TFM-25?

    Found some previous threads about this amp. thoughts?
  • Inspector 24Inspector 24 Posts: 1,064
    edited October 2013
    Inspector 24 - what do i need to increase my price to?

    Like I said....

    Honestly, I think you'll have a tough time getting a good amp for $400. Everything I see that's decent and can provide the needed power for the a9's is over $500, more like $600.
    cfrizz wrote: »

    These are some fantastic options. Given the choice I'd go for the Adcom and worry about the center channel amplification later, the AVR will handle that quite well if it's not driving the A9's

    Though that Rotel is very nice too, either one would work great.

    Again, look for minimum 200wpc, and plan on spending $500+ If money is a big factor, you can always upgrade slowly and go with lower wattage to start. Even 135wpc from a Parasound HCA-1206 was FAR superior to the '140wpc' from my Yamaha AVR at the time.

    Or just say screw it and go all out:
    http://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-parasound-dual-mono-stereo-hca-3500-amplifier-near-san-francisco-ca-2013-10-02-amplifiers-94403

    Of course you'd need power cords, so slightly more expense. FWIW, I paid $1400 shipped for mine, though it did have power cords.
    Down
    RTiA9 - CSiA6 - FXiA6 - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000
  • 4xoddic4xoddic Posts: 372
    edited October 2013
    Inspector 24 - I appreciate your specific amp comparisons. My QSC-GX7 was a major improvement in musicality (at least on my RSMM, Rat Shack Musicality Meter), compared to my SC-07.

    I'm thinking either the d-sonic M3-600M (600w) or Red Dragon Audio M1000MkII (550 watts at 8Ω) might be a good match with the RTiA9s.
  • ThortonThorton Posts: 1,120
    edited October 2013
    You have nice speakers. Save a few more dollars and power it with a nice amp. Don't skimp here. Cfizz has nice listings or wait for a nice used Parasound to pop up at a good price. A decent amp makes a world of a difference with the A9's. 500-800 should get you a good amp. When you find something decent, utilize them members on this forum to give their opinion of the performance on that particular model.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Source: Sonos - W4S Mod, DAC: W4S DAC-2
    Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
    Amp1: W4S MC-5, AMP2: W4S MMC-7
    Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
    Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
    Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
    IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
    Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
    Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
  • mabst73mabst73 Posts: 20
    edited October 2013
    I think Thorton said it best. I'm going to save my money and get a decent amp and deal with it for now.

    Thanks for everyone's thoughts!
  • mabst73mabst73 Posts: 20
    edited October 2013
    Well I did some thinking and bought a Adcom 555 off Ebay for $350 shipped!

    DSkip wrote: »
    Adcom, para sound, rotel, nad, b&k.... Adcom 555 stands out as a solid investment for you. They hang around 3 bills and will continue to stay at that mark as far as I can tell. It's got respectable performance and is easy to move when it's time is up in your system.
    Like I said....

    Honestly, I think you'll have a tough time getting a good amp for $400. Everything I see that's decent and can provide the needed power for the a9's is over $500, more like $600.



    These are some fantastic options. Given the choice I'd go for the Adcom and worry about the center channel amplification later, the AVR will handle that quite well if it's not driving the A9's

    Though that Rotel is very nice too, either one would work great.

    Again, look for minimum 200wpc, and plan on spending $500+ If money is a big factor, you can always upgrade slowly and go with lower wattage to start. Even 135wpc from a Parasound HCA-1206 was FAR superior to the '140wpc' from my Yamaha AVR at the time.

    Or just say screw it and go all out:
    http://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-parasound-dual-mono-stereo-hca-3500-amplifier-near-san-francisco-ca-2013-10-02-amplifiers-94403

    Of course you'd need power cords, so slightly more expense. FWIW, I paid $1400 shipped for mine, though it did have power cords.
  • Inspector 24Inspector 24 Posts: 1,064
    edited October 2013
    Wow! Great deal! I look forward to finding out the results!
    Down
    RTiA9 - CSiA6 - FXiA6 - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000
  • mabst73mabst73 Posts: 20
    edited October 2013
    Well got her all setup, the amp is pretty clean considering its age!

    I can already hear the difference in the high/mid range, along with my listening level. But I'm disappointed in bass, they barely move.

    Thoughts?
  • Inspector 24Inspector 24 Posts: 1,064
    edited October 2013
    Placement? Room correction settings? Jumpers properly attached between binding posts?
    Down
    RTiA9 - CSiA6 - FXiA6 - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 29,944
    edited October 2013
    Speakers set to small or large ? Speaker levels.....crossover settings ? Cables ?
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • mabst73mabst73 Posts: 20
    edited October 2013
    Placement? Room correction settings? Jumpers properly attached between binding posts?

    Inspector,
    Its not the room (atleast for this), they just don't seem to move much. Since I had them bi-amped before, I put the little gold bars back on and have only a single set of cables plugged into the top post for L&R.
    tonyb wrote: »
    Speakers set to small or large ? Speaker levels.....crossover settings ? Cables ?

    Tonyb,
    The speakers are set to large on the receiver. As for the levels, I used the auto-tune feature my Yamaha supports to do speaker levels and such.

    As for crossover settings....i'm not sure
  • mabst73mabst73 Posts: 20
    edited October 2013
    Placement? Room correction settings? Jumpers properly attached between binding posts?

    Inspector,
    Its not the room (atleast for this), they just don't seem to move much. Since I had them bi-amped before, I put the little gold bars back on and have only a single set of cables plugged into the top post for L&R.
    tonyb wrote: »
    Speakers set to small or large ? Speaker levels.....crossover settings ? Cables ?

    Tonyb,
    The speakers are set to large on the receiver. As for the levels, I used the auto-tune feature my Yamaha supports to do speaker levels and such.

    As for crossover settings....i'm not sure
  • MarkTXMarkTX Posts: 58
    edited October 2013
    i have the tweeters on CH. A and bass on CH.B lol
    F1nut wrote: »
    First off, you don't have them bi-amped. That's not possible with any AVR, period. Second, you need a power amp to properly drive those speakers.

    Is this for 2 channel music only or also HT use?
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