SDA 1C's are ready for the upgrade bug

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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,894
    edited May 2010
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    hearingimpared wrote: »
    Starting trouble again Kelvin?:D:p They are beauts Larry. I can't get over the sheen on that wood.


    Thats because her mouth was just on it:eek: Oh your talking about the speakers... Thanks!!!
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited May 2010
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    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    Thats because her mouth was just on it:eek: Oh your talking about the speakers... Thanks!!!

    You are one sick bastage my friend WAAAAAAAAAA!!!
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  • xsmi
    xsmi Posts: 1,786
    edited May 2010
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    Larry I know the answer to this question is a few weeks out, but with all the internal material and material to tighten the drivers are you afraid the boxes will be too dead? Isn't some ringing to the cabinet good? Guys please feel free to jump in on this question as i really don't know the answer or if I am even asking the question correctly. BTW, you do some AWESOME work!
    2-channelBelles 22A Pre, Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2, Marantz SA8005, Pro-Ject RPM-10 Turntable, Pro-Ject Phono Box DS3B, Polk Audio Legend L800's, AudioQuest Cable throughout.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited May 2010
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    From what I understand, Polk took the cabinet resonance into consideration when designing the speakers. I believe putting too much sound deadening in the cabinet would make them sound flat and lifeless.

    I was going to Dynamat the inside of my 1.2TLs but I think it was Ken and/or Jesse who advised me against it and that could have been because I was using Dynamat Extreme which has a thick foil on the outside of it.
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,894
    edited May 2010
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    xsmi wrote: »
    Larry I know the answer to this question is a few weeks out, but with all the internal material and material to tighten the drivers are you afraid the boxes will be too dead? Isn't some ringing to the cabinet good? Guys please feel free to jump in on this question as i really don't know the answer or if I am even asking the question correctly. BTW, you do some AWESOME work!
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    From what I understand, Polk took the cabinet resonance into consideration when designing the speakers. I believe putting too much sound deadening in the cabinet would make them sound flat and lifeless.

    I was going to Dynamat the inside of my 1.2TLs but I think it was Ken and/or Jesse who advised me against it and that could have been because I was using Dynamat Extreme which has a thick foil on the outside of it.


    Well it is a few weeks out till all is broke in but I will say that out the gate and them not being in place just yet I am very excited at what I have heard so far. Tonight I will have them in place and give them some burn in time and listening time. after doing the 1.2tl's I know that it will just keep getting better.

    Mike (Face) knows more about the BlackHole and Sound Barrier then I do maybe he will chime in soon..He is the reason I gave this a shot as I knew nothing about eather..

    Like I said out the gate I am very excited in what is to come of them..
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited May 2010
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    Box coloration, resonances, ringing=distortion. Look at almost all high end designs nowadays, 1-3" cabinet walls, extensive bracing, sandwiching of different materials, cast baskets, etc... This is also why we dynomat our stamped driver baskets.

    Benefits of products like Blackhole or Sonic Barrier are that they add mass to the enclosure walls, further deadening panels, and that they prevent sound waves bouncing off the back/sides of the enclosure and coming back through the cone, which improves imaging.

    As for the original poly fill, it was installed to prevent back waves too, but isn't very effective at lower frequencies. Whether to reinstall it or not, is up to you. You may feel that you will not need it anymore, or maybe you will only need a smaller amount. You'll know when you added too much, it'll start to sound dull in the mids.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,116
    edited May 2010
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    Face wrote: »
    Box coloration, resonances, ringing=distortion. Look at almost all high end designs nowadays, 1-3" cabinet walls, extensive bracing, sandwiching of different materials, cast baskets, etc... This is also why we dynomat our stamped driver baskets.

    Benefits of products like Blackhole or Sonic Barrier are that they add mass to the enclosure walls, further deadening panels, and that they prevent sound waves bouncing off the back/sides of the enclosure and coming back through the cone, which improves imaging.

    As for the original poly fill, it was installed to prevent back waves too, but isn't very effective at lower frequencies. Whether to reinstall it or not, is up to you. You may feel that you will not need it anymore, or maybe you will only need a smaller amount. You'll know when you added too much, it'll start to sound dull in the mids.

    Thanks for the lesson... What would you suggest as far as material inside a set of modded 1.2TL's??
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,894
    edited May 2010
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    I'm on my phone so I will type more later but I will say I see these 1C's smoking my 1.2tl's yes that's right I said it, they sound that good.

    Much thanks to Mike and Ben.

    Peace
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited May 2010
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    vmax, I would recommend the materials mentioned above.

    Larry, get off the phone already. :D
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,116
    edited May 2010
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    Face wrote: »
    vmax, I would recommend the materials mentioned above.

    Larry, get off the phone already. :D


    I have a bunch of dynamat extreme, should I not use it??

    Thanks for the info!!
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited May 2010
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    On the driver baskets, yes. On the cabinet walls, no.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,894
    edited May 2010
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    vmaxer wrote: »
    I have a bunch of dynamat extreme, should I not use it??

    Thanks for the info!!

    I wouldn't use dynamat it's not going to give you the same results, I already know I will do the same thing to my 1.2tl's if your just wanting to save a few dollars then just use sonic barrier on all the walls. I will use blackhole on the back wall and sonic barrier on the other walls just like my 1C's. You will be floored by the seperation in the highs and these are not even burned in yet and the tweeters still sound a little harsh but I know that goes away in about 30 hours and continues to get better. I put in Pink Floyd wish you were here and the imaging was fantastic. I am so looking forward to seeing a couple hundred hours on them. The only thing I might do is thin the polyfill just a little more but I am going to wait till the end of the week to make that decision. So far I am very happy with the out come on these.

    Good Luck if you choose to do them but I still say stay away from using dynamat.

    Larry.
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,894
    edited May 2010
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    I should also say the SDA effect is outstanding as well, it is all around you enveloping you. I can turn off the lights and not even know the 1.2tl's are not there these are filling the room with sound. Like I said these are sounding that good.

    One thing I knew was coming and that is the wife likes them better then the great big ones as she calls it.;)
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,894
    edited May 2010
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    Mike you mentioned box coloration now I am just thinking out loud here but do you think by taking care of the box coloration that it helps in your room coloration as well? I know we use room treatments to help with that, but I was thinking that it might help with SDA/RIG callenged rooms as well as room coloration.

    Like I said just thinking out loud.
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  • Fongolio
    Fongolio Posts: 3,516
    edited May 2010
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    Congrats on the overall superb job and especially how they sound. Glad you love them not even broken in yet and a total bonus is the really high WAF which we all know is extremely important.

    Kelvin
    SDA-1C (full mods)
    Carver TFM-55
    NAD 1130 Pre-amp
    Rega Planar 3 TT/Shelter 501 MkII
    The Clamp
    Revox A77 Mk IV Dolby reel to reel
    Thorens TD160/Mission 774 arm/Stanton 881S Shibata
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    Rotel RCD-855 with modified tube output stage
    Cambridge Audio DACmagic Plus
    ADC Soundshaper 3 EQ
    Ben's IC's
    Nitty Gritty 1.5FI RCM
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  • geoff727
    geoff727 Posts: 546
    edited May 2010
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    They look fantastic. The oak has a nice, sophisticated quality about it. Looking forward to more pictures.
    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    I will say I see these 1C's smoking my 1.2tl's

    The-1C's that I modded also smoked the (stock) 2.3tl's I had at the time. Of corse, that was in my rather size-limited room.
    Polk SDA SRS 2
    Polk RTA 15tl
    Polk Monitor 7C
    Polk Lsi9
    Infinity RS-II (modded)
    Infinity RS-IIIa (modded)
    Infinity RS 2.5 x 2
    Magnepan 1.6QR (modded)

    System: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1290711373
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited May 2010
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    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    I'm on my phone so I will type more later but I will say I see these 1C's smoking my 1.2tl's yes that's right I said it, they sound that good.

    Much thanks to Mike and Ben.

    Peace

    :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: Seriously though, it's not hard to believe but do the same work on your 1.2TLs and come back with that statement and I'll think your eating peyote buttons.:D;)
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,894
    edited May 2010
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    hearingimpared wrote: »
    :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: Seriously though, it's not hard to believe but do the same work on your 1.2TLs and come back with that statement and I'll think your eating peyote buttons.:D;)

    I will be doing the same work on my 1.2tl's including the wood caps, and grill cloth to match the 1C's. Joe the detail that is coming out of these is fantastic I know the detail is just going to get better especially in the lows. it took about 100-150 hours for my lows to really hit home on the 1.2tl's after the crossover rebuild, and about 30-50 hours for the tweeters to settle in.

    It is really strange not seeing the big boys sitting in my rig, you almost forget how big they really are till you go to move them but I will play with the 1C's for awhile then get started on my 1.2tl's I will get everything ordered for them this week. especially the wood for the caps and wood trim from austin hardwoods. the nice thing is the crossovers,JB weld,spikes, and dynamating are already done:cool:
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,894
    edited May 2010
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    geoff727 wrote: »
    They look fantastic. The oak has a nice, sophisticated quality about it. Looking forward to more pictures.



    The-1C's that I modded also smoked the (stock) 2.3tl's I had at the time. Of corse, that was in my rather size-limited room.

    Thanks Geoff,

    The funny thing is my 1.2tl's are not stock the crossovers are done,dynamating, motite is done. don't get me wrong I love my 1.2tl's but lining the walls in the 1C's is something. the soundstage is cleaner the seperation is cleaner. I will report more in the next few weeks as they burn in.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,093
    edited May 2010
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    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    It is really strange not seeing the big boys sitting in my rig, you almost forget how big they really are till you go to move them but I will play with the 1C's for awhile then get started on my 1.2tl's I will get everything ordered for them this week. especially the wood for the caps and wood trim from austin hardwoods. the nice thing is the crossovers,JB weld,spikes, and dynamating are already done:cool:

    What are you going to do with the old caps? If you are going to toss the old wood from the 1.2's I will be happy to put them to use.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,894
    edited May 2010
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    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    What are you going to do with the old caps? If you are going to toss the old wood from the 1.2's I will be happy to put them to use.
    John I will more then likely keep them, sorry bro.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,093
    edited May 2010
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    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    John I will more then likely keep them, sorry bro.

    I knew that, but a man can still dream.:cool:
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited May 2010
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    Hey Larry,, how many sheets of the Blackhole did it take to do both speakers?.Guys,, it case anyone is interested in tweaking their SDA's,,Sonicap has a 15% off sale right now.I'm seriously considering the cabinet damping and thought this might be a good time to jump on some goodies.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,894
    edited May 2010
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    george daniel wrote: »
    Hey Larry,, how many sheets of the Blackhole did it take to do both speakers?.Guys,, it case anyone is interested in tweaking their SDA's,,Sonicap has a 15% off sale right now.I'm seriously considering the cabinet damping and thought this might be a good time to jump on some goodies.


    George I ordered 2 sheets of BlackHole it was enough to do the back walls ans the bottom of the cabnet, and I ordered 8 peices of sonic barrier for the side walls and the top of the cabnet. and I used what was left to cut peices for the front of the cabnet.
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,894
    edited May 2010
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    Well I know some of you we're concerned about me lining the cabnets the way I did with the BlackHole and Sonic barrier, but I have to give another shout out to how detailed these 1C's sound. The clarity is fantastic all the little things you hear is off the hook. I have been sitting here for 2 hours in utter awe.

    I can not wait to get the 1.2tl's done.

    That is all, wish you all could come over and take a listen. Maybe I need to plan on taking them to a Polk Fest? ;)
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  • geoff727
    geoff727 Posts: 546
    edited May 2010
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    I would love to see and listen to your improvements when I come to Denver in October for RMAF. Let me know if this is a possibility.

    Geoff
    Polk SDA SRS 2
    Polk RTA 15tl
    Polk Monitor 7C
    Polk Lsi9
    Infinity RS-II (modded)
    Infinity RS-IIIa (modded)
    Infinity RS 2.5 x 2
    Magnepan 1.6QR (modded)

    System: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1290711373
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  • comfortablycurt
    comfortablycurt Posts: 6,745
    edited May 2010
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    Wow! I haven't been following this thread...

    You've really went to town on those 1C's...they're looking absolutely gorgeous! The wood caps are beautiful.

    I bet that's a GREAT sounding pair of speakers now.
    The nirvana inducer-
    APC H10 Power Conditioner
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    Parasound Halo P5 preamp
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    Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,894
    edited May 2010
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    geoff727 wrote: »
    I would love to see and listen to your improvements when I come to Denver in October for RMAF. Let me know if this is a possibility.



    Geoff

    Your more then welcome to come by, just keep in touch.
    comfortablycurt wrote: »
    Wow! I haven't been following this thread...

    You've really went to town on those 1C's...they're looking absolutely gorgeous! The wood caps are beautiful.

    I bet that's a GREAT sounding pair of speakers now.

    Thanks Curt, they do sound fantastic..
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited May 2010
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    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    Well I know some of you we're concerned about me lining the cabnets the way I did with the BlackHole and Sonic barrier, but I have to give another shout out to how detailed these 1C's sound. The clarity is fantastic all the little things you hear is off the hook. I have been sitting here for 2 hours in utter awe.

    I can not wait to get the 1.2tl's done.

    That is all, wish you all could come over and take a listen. Maybe I need to plan on taking them to a Polk Fest? ;)

    I have to confess that I was 'one' of the doubters there. But it looks like you've proven us wrong Larry...which is great for you and your ears!

    Did you post the final pics...did I miss them?

    Never mind I scrolled back and see that you did give us a final view....? Very nice, indeed!

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,894
    edited May 2010
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    cnh wrote: »
    I have to confess that I was 'one' of the doubters there. But it looks like you've proven us wrong Larry...which is great for you and your ears!

    Did you post the final pics...did I miss them?

    Never mind I scrolled back and see that you did give us a final view....? Very nice, indeed!

    cnh

    I wiil post some pics of the whole setup tonight.

    It sounds so good that I am working on my 1.2tl's should be done in a couple of weeks..;)
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