Tube Equivalents > 6J1 > 6AK5 ?

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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited March 2010
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    After putting 50 hours on a pair of Tung-Sol 6AK5s, here are my observations of that tube vs the stock, Chinese 6J1s in my HiFiMAN EF2A headphone amplifier:

    6J1s are a little louder
    6AK5s are over all a little more smooth
    6J1s have a little higher background noise
    6AK5s run physically cooler
    6J1s sound a little more dry
    6AK5s have better mid-range
    6J1s are taller
    6AK5s are overall more musical sounding

    The 6AK5 is a very enjoyable tube that helped bring out the music in my headphone amp and it probably 15% better than the stock 6J1 tubes.
    Jake
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  • kcoc321
    kcoc321 Posts: 1,788
    edited March 2010
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    thanks Jake for your input, were you using just your headphones, or did you figure out a way to try it through your speakers?

    Now we need to get some black plate RCA to compare :D
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  • concealer404
    concealer404 Posts: 7,440
    edited March 2010
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    On that note... i don't think i like the CV4010s anymore. I just can't get over the boost in highs. Guess i need to start shopping again.
    I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.

    Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii

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    Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3

    HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited March 2010
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    That amp has no outputs except headphones, so I was using the Audio-Technica ATh-AD700s. I can redo that test if you want in two weeks when a pair of AKG K702s fully burn-in.
    Jake
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited May 2010
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    I may finally be buying decent tubes for my headphone amp after I returned KC's demo tubes and put the stock Chinese ones back in. I'm definitely eyeing Tung-Sol and GE tubes, but have any of you listened to Sylvania? I haven't heard much about them in any tube talk.

    I've been focusing more on another amp lately. I recently swapped Chinese stock driver tubes out for a Telefunken Mazda 12AT7 and a matched pair of GE 6FQ7/6CG7. Even leaving the quad of Shuguang EL34s, the amp is sounding amazingly better.
    Jake
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited June 2010
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    Well, I finally got lucky on ebay and got a pair of NOS Hyton 6AK5s, that come with a spare GE.

    Upon doing some research I found this:

    CBS Hytron was a very high quality USA tube manufacturer. Their production numbers were much smaller than the big name brands (RCA, Sylvania, GE).

    Out of the individual tube reviews I was able to find online they appear to be a quality made tube with a great sound, if you can find them. I'm assuming that since they aren't one of the popular audiophile tube companies, and the fact that the company all together was lost in antiquity, they are less expensive even if they do sound good.
    Jake
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,079
    edited June 2010
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    I have 2 pairs of the very rare 7728 gold pin's that can sub for 12AT7's and they are a very nice sounding tube. I believe CBS had them manufactured for them, I don;t believe they had their own manufacturing facility, but I could be wrong it's been awhile since I did the research on CBS tubes.

    Nice find

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited June 2010
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    I can't wait to get the tubes in, burn them in, then give them a quality A/B verses the stock Chinese tubes. I enjoyed using the Tung-Sols in my amp, and I'm hoping the Hytrons should wake-up the amp nicely.
    Jake
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited June 2010
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    I have 2 pairs of the very rare 7728 gold pin's that can sub for 12AT7's and they are a very nice sounding tube.

    Are you willing to part with any of those? :p
    Jake
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,079
    edited June 2010
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    zingo wrote: »
    Are you willing to part with any of those? :p

    I had 3 pairs and sold a pair to Keiko. Perhaps, let me think about it and take a full tube inventory :).

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited June 2010
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    Just got my pair of NOS Hyton 6AK5 in the mail (with a spare GE :D). I'm going to start them with 50 hours of break-in, then A/B them against the stock Chinese 6J1 tubes.
    Jake
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited June 2010
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    41abcc6b6f.jpg
    Jake
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited June 2010
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    Initial burn in of new tubes completed and will post listening notes between the stock 6J1 tubes and the new NOS 6AK5 tubes tonight.
    Jake
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  • kcoc321
    kcoc321 Posts: 1,788
    edited June 2010
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    I'll be interested in hearing how they sound compared to the TS's.
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited June 2010
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    First observations about the Hytron 6AK5 vs Chinese 6J1 is the Hytrons running brighter, but cooler to the touch. They are also a physically shorter tube, and I have no idea when my NOS tubes were made...

    As far as the sound, I think they are only a little better than the stock 6J1 tubes. The Hytron 6AK5s seem to have a little more life and less fatigue, and slightly higher gain. The 6J1s have slightly more noise, and might sound a tad flatter.

    There is a difference between the two tubes, with the winner going to the Hytron 6AK5, but not by as much as the Tung-Sols that I demoed earlier. However, I also pair $1 per tube for them, so I have no complaints about them as that is a pretty good value for the investment. :p I would try Hytron tubes again in a different application as they seem to sound neutral and balanced, while still tubey without over emphasizing anything. A decent tube with good bass that can be a good value.
    Jake
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,079
    edited June 2010
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    Were those CBS Hytron tubes as in were they for broadcast consoles? They look different than the 7728's I have which are CBS and they are much different sounding that regular 12At7's.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited June 2010
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    Hyton was its own tube manufacturing company which was bought by CBS in the 50's to compete with RCA. Once CBS made the buy, I continued to manufacture many different TV and radio tubes.

    The tubes I bought are 6AK5s, and Hytron made everything from 6V6s to 5U4Gs. They are relatively cheap on eBay, and a cool part of Americana IMO.
    Jake
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  • snow
    snow Posts: 4,329
    edited August 2010
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    So what is the best tubes that the three of you have tried so far seem to be?

    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited August 2010
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    The NOS Tung-Sol 6AK5s sounded the best, but the NOS Hytons were close behind them in SQ and cheaper. :D
    Jake
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  • starkiller
    starkiller Posts: 2,723
    edited August 2010
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    Have some GE 6AK5's if you wish to experiment, cheap too..using Mullard's in my buffer and they sound great to me :)
    Computer room Hegeman 1 SpeakersM&K VX-80 subKenwood DP-7010Cambridge Audio CXC Transport Rega DACPrimaLuna Prologue Four AmpAric Audio Tube PreampGarage Jennings Research SquareCustom tube preampCrown XLS-1000Denon DCD-1500II Modded MSB Link DAC
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  • snow
    snow Posts: 4,329
    edited August 2010
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    starkiller wrote: »
    Have some GE 6AK5's if you wish to experiment, cheap too..using Mullard's in my buffer and they sound great to me :)
    Thanks for the offer :) I have a fellow sending me some GE 6AK5's today allready good to hear that the Mullards are working well for you.



    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D
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  • starkiller
    starkiller Posts: 2,723
    edited August 2010
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    Cool...got the Mullard's from the UK and they do sound nice...good luck! Have of a pair of the GE's for backup use :)
    Computer room Hegeman 1 SpeakersM&K VX-80 subKenwood DP-7010Cambridge Audio CXC Transport Rega DACPrimaLuna Prologue Four AmpAric Audio Tube PreampGarage Jennings Research SquareCustom tube preampCrown XLS-1000Denon DCD-1500II Modded MSB Link DAC
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  • kcoc321
    kcoc321 Posts: 1,788
    edited August 2010
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    starkiller wrote: »
    Cool...got the Mullard's from the UK and they do sound nice...good luck! Have of a pair of the GE's for backup use :)

    hmmm..got a link?
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  • starkiller
    starkiller Posts: 2,723
    edited August 2010
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    Hmm, this was a while ago..will have to look it up, guy's name is michael and I believe that's the name of his store also...
    Computer room Hegeman 1 SpeakersM&K VX-80 subKenwood DP-7010Cambridge Audio CXC Transport Rega DACPrimaLuna Prologue Four AmpAric Audio Tube PreampGarage Jennings Research SquareCustom tube preampCrown XLS-1000Denon DCD-1500II Modded MSB Link DAC
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  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    edited December 2012
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    I had a pair of the Siemens 6AK5W back when I had a couple of B283 tube buffers in the system several configurations ago. They were a very linear sounding tube with no emphasis on any one part of the musical spectrum (like most German made tubes I have tried). I preferred the lusher mid-range from the Mullard 8100, but that was me in my system. They may be the cat's meow in your system. I'll be curious to see what you think about them. Hard to go wrong with them at that price.
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  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    edited December 2012
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    Cool. That's a great deal! I'm curious to hear what you think of them compared to the Siemens and the Mullards. I couple of buddies have the B283, so it would be cool to give them a comparison.
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  • Dawgfish
    Dawgfish Posts: 2,554
    edited December 2012
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    Cool to hear. For the price of these things they were defintiely worth trying out. I like trying different tubes just so I'll know how they sound in my setup and not wonder if there's anything out there that may sound better. I'll definitely be curious what you think of the Raytheons. I have not heard a Raytheon tube yet that i did not like.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,560
    edited June 2013
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    Keiko wrote: »
    Dawg, I bought the Raytheon 6AK5s when I first got my Yaqin to replace the crap in the glass stock tubes. As I recall, they were a nice improvement over the the Chinese 6J1s. I think they were like 10.00 for a matched pair. I just want to revisit them. BTW, the GEs are settling down some and starting to open up a bit. I've read these are close to the M8100s, so I'm eager to cook 'em another week or two.

    Here's a tube rolling guide for the Little Dot I ran across that might be helpful. There's a list for some EF95s (6J1) that were reviewed. Interesting the reviewer gave some Russian made Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV high marks. I was under the impression the Chinese/Russian tubes should be avoided. These are selling on fleabay now for 36.00 per pair.




    Russian made Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Voshkod-6...item43a9ea0cc3

    ^^^^^^^^^^^Anybody ever try these? Mike did you ever order any? Got any advice on good tubes for buffer 6j1 series?
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited June 2013
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    Interesting little tube, and seems to be a match from the description. I like Voskhod tubes for the most part; but those tubes are more expensive than I would expect.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6AK5
    Jake
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