Denon AVR-4308CI + ADCOM GFA-7707 + LSi Serires

Bernal

Hi,
I have my Denon AVR-4308CI and LSI. Moreover, Electrical system: according to recommendation Adcom (20 amp 120V AC). Ok.
1) My equipment supplier gives me the following options:
ADCOM GFA-7707
Channels: 7
Power Per Channel: 200 watts (8Ω);
300 watts (4Ω)
Power Bandwidth: 3 Hz-130 kHz
ADCOM GFA-7705
Channels: 5
Power Per Channel: 200 watts (8Ω);
300 watts (4Ω)
Power Bandwidth: 3 Hz-130 kHz.
2) I said that the ADCOM GFA-7607 Power Per Channel: 125 watts (8Ω) would be equally Denon AVR-4308CI. Is that true?
3) I can explain. I do not understand. If I buy an Adcom 7607 remain unchanged. What is better if I add an Adcom... amp to the speaker LSi.
4)Gives me the speakers LSiF / X for Surround Sound, PSW1000/PSW505 for SubWoffer. You think of the recommendation?

______________________________
1) DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
2) HITACHI P55T501. 55" HD1080 Plasma HDTV
3) DENON DVD-1740: Progressive Scan DVD Video/CD Player
4) DENON DVD-2500BTCI: Blu-ray Disc™ DVD/CD Digital Player/Transport
5) POLKAUDIO LSiC (Center speaker)
6) POLKAUDIO LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
7) POLKAUDIO LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
8) SONY SS-MSP16 LEFT (Surround speaker)
9) SONY SS-MSP16 RIGHT (Surround speaker)
10) SONY SS-CNP16 LEFT (Surround back speaker)
11) SONY SA-WP16 ( Sub Woofer 2X200W)

danger boy

any receiver.. no matter if it's Denon, Harmon Kardon, Marantz, Pioneer, Onkyo or any other brand can only power speakers for so long.. because the receiver's amps are powering all the speakers.

using an external amp like Adcom or any other brand takes away all the pressure from the Denon receiver's amps.. providing each speaker with more power. basically, a separate amp is built to do only one thing.. power your speakers. while a receiver also has to power the tuner, the pre amp, and everything else inside of it.

140 watts from a receiver is not equal to 140 watts from an external amplifier. watts are not the only important thing when comparing amplifiers. how much current flow the amp can handle is important too.

It's somewhat confusing if you are new to home theater and stereo in general when you're talking about amps.

ben62670

DB said it well. I will add that that a receiver is kinda like a car stereo that claims 50wpc x4. There is no way that a head unit can keep up with my A/D/S 30wpc x4 external amp.
I hope this helps.
Ben

danz1906

Going with the Adcom 7607 amp should much better than your AVR.
You cant trust some power rating, your Denon is about 140watts @ 4ohms
The Adcom is more Like 190watts:D

McLoki

Your Denon is rated for 4 ohm loads. You could try it with your LSi's and if you decide you want more (or if your Denon runs into protection mode) add an amp later.

Your Denon has circuits to protect it from low ohm speakers - it is possible you could blow a tweeter in your LSi's - but still, that depends on your listening volume and cost only about $50 to fix if it comes to that.

I do think an Amp will sound better - but your AVR will get you 85-90% (or so) of the way there.... (based on you using Sony speakers for your rears - I am guessing budget is more important than the last 10-15% of fidelity)

Just something to consider,

Michael

Bernal

Hi,
Researchers found in www.hometheaterhifi.com" the next report. If so, why I need a amplifier?.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/receivers/313-a-secrets-receiver-review.html?start=2
"Conclusions:
Personally, there are two major things I associate with a receiver bearing the Denon brand name: feature-richness and quality performance. The AVR-4308CI exemplifies both of these characteristics to a tee. As you can tell from the body of this review, the 4308CI is not wanting for any feature. Basically if it is out there, this unit has it. From the network functions, to the audio codecs, to the video processing, you won't be left wishing there were something else this receiver could do (at least not until some super new 10 channel super surround audio codec is released!). As for performance, this is what I would expect in something from Denon, that is to say this receiver sounded nothing short of magnificent. No matter what movie, album, or format I tested, the 4308CI was simply outstanding. The amplifiers, capable of an advertised 140 watts per channel, never got tired, even as I played source material at reference levels. I think our own Brian Florian said it best that nowadays we are after the “True Sound”, meaning the receiver's reproduction of the source material is so true to the original that it doesn't call attention to itself as “bright”, “warm”, or any other adjective. The Denon fits that bill. It takes anything you throw at it and lets your speakers shine.
The bottom line here, as you have probably already guessed, is that the AVR-4308CI what I had hoped it would be over a year ago. At an MSRP of $2,499, this is definitely on the higher end of the receiver spectrum. However, when you consider what it brings to the table and how much separate components that do all of these things would cost, it may actually be a bargain. Kudos to Denon for putting out a product that is an excellent achievement in the audio/video receiver category.".

mantis

McLoki wrote: »

Your Denon is rated for 4 ohm loads. You could try it with your LSi's and if you decide you want more (or if your Denon runs into protection mode) add an amp later.

Your Denon has circuits to protect it from low ohm speakers - it is possible you could blow a tweeter in your LSi's - but still, that depends on your listening volume and cost only about $50 to fix if it comes to that.

I do think an Amp will sound better - but your AVR will get you 85-90% (or so) of the way there.... (based on you using Sony speakers for your rears - I am guessing budget is more important than the last 10-15% of fidelity)

Just something to consider,

Michael

I thought the Denon 4308 was rated for 6 to 16 ohm speakers. Where did you find this? Even the big daddy dog 5308 is only rated for 6 to 16 ohm load speakers. I believe the 4308 can handle the load at lower volumes but with the expensive of dynamic range.

Dan

McLoki

Damn - never trust a review. You are absolutely correct - look at page 13 of the owners manual... (it states 6-16ohm and when rear speakers are used 8 - 16 ohm. Also states that there is a protection circuit that will kick in if 4 ohm speakers are used for extended listening periods at high volumes. (of course extended periods and high volume are rather subjective)

I swear I read a review stating that it could drive 4 ohm loads (and gave a 4 ohm power rating) but I cannot find it now. Based on the wording in the manual - I would not do it, but as I said - he seems determined to try so best of luck. If there is a problem - get an amp. It does sound like there are protection circuits to keep the amp from overheating so he could at least try it....

I am sorry for the misinformation though - Thanks for the catch Dan....

Michael

Bernal

McLoki wrote: »

Damn - never trust a review. You are absolutely correct - look at page 13 of the owners manual... (it states 6-16ohm and when rear speakers are used 8 - 16 ohm. Also states that there is a protection circuit that will kick in if 4 ohm speakers are used for extended listening periods at high volumes. (of course extended periods and high volume are rather subjective)

I swear I read a review stating that it could drive 4 ohm loads (and gave a 4 ohm power rating) but I cannot find it now. Based on the wording in the manual - I would not do it, but as I said - he seems determined to try so best of luck. If there is a problem - get an amp. It does sound like there are protection circuits to keep the amp from overheating so he could at least try it....

I am sorry for the misinformation though - Thanks for the catch Dan....

Michael

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/receivers/313-a-secrets-receiver-review.html?start=2

"Some Responses 4308 ci:
written by Gabe , July 25, 2008

Sorry for the delay in answering these questions...

Internet Radio Stations:
Yes, you can customize a list of Internet Radio Channels and play them without having a computer in the path. It is much easier to CREATE the channel list on a computer, but once there, the channels stream directly.

THX Certification:
Well, I don't know that I would say this is a deal breaker. THX certification simply means that the component meets a certain set of standards and features as defined by the THX certification, and has been tested to meet these requirements by THX. Just because the Denon doesn't have that label doesn't mean it doesn't meet those standards. It likely means that Denon simply didn't want to pay to have this unit certified. I certainly would NOT rule a component out of my short list for a home theater simply because it is not THX certified. Again, it will be about what sounds/looks good to you with your own eyes and ears!

4 Ohm loads:
This receiver can definitely connect to speakers rated for 4 Ohms. There is a protection circuit that will trigger and shut the unit down if you try to drive the speakers to hard and the receiver heats up as a result, but I would imagine you need to drive them very hard for a very long time and have bad ventilation for this to occur."

cfrizz

You can connect any speaker to any amp and it will probably play. Will it sound it's best? probably not.

You asked your question & we have tried to tell you that what you have read & what the reality is for driving the LSI's are 2 different things.

Do whatever you want, but if your receiver goes into protect mode from being up too loud for too long a time, or you fry one of your speakers, don't come crying on here.

Get at least a 200wpc @8ohms and enjoy hearing what your speakers truly sound like.

CRESCENDOPOWER

cfrizz wrote: »

You can connect any speaker to any amp and it will probably play. Will it sound it's best? probably not.

You asked your question & we have tried to tell you that what you have read & what the reality is for driving the LSI's are 2 different things.

Do whatever you want, but if your receiver goes into protect mode from being up too loud for too long a time, or you fry one of your speakers, don't come crying on here.

Get at least a 200wpc @8ohms and enjoy hearing what your speakers truly sound like.

That is fine and dandy, but what if he quotes another source from some rocket scientist that proves us wrong?:p I say let the fool burn it up!:D

woweu2006

you are really rich!!

cfrizz

Hardly, I bought both my prepro & amp used for a fraction of their new cost.

If I hadn't I wouldn't have them now.

woweu2006 wrote: »

you are really rich!!

ken brydson

Really needed to dig up a 4 year thread to dispute it? :rolleyes:

hochpt21

Djwest, this thread is over 5 years old and most of the posters aren't even on the forum anymore.

What's the point?

ZLTFUL

His point is, he has no point. None of his posts make any coherent sense at all.

F1nut

He's looking to add red letters under his user name like the OP.

leftwinger57

you can try and convice some people that there whole reasoning is wrong but their ego gets in the way and they cannot take or accept advice. Hey I used to be one of those guys, remember my logical rap of bringing back my '87 2Bs from a 20 y/o coma and couldn't they just be as pristine as new stock. Man I got hammered as the answer was no because those 28 y/o parts are old dried out, seen years of seaonal temperature changes and that the new caps and resistors and tweeters are that much better. I CAVED, i agreed and now have yes even better 2Bs then what I started with. This argument is so different than someone questioning DK's science, here they just refuse to listen. Jesse the man of very few words "adding red letters under his name" classic......4/5 y/o thread really.

ken brydson

F1nut wrote: »

He's looking to add red letters under his user name like the OP.

^Hopefully^

dragon1952

Questioning something someone said 5 years ago is pretty lame. Jesus H...if you want to start an argument or wave your 'i'm smarter than you' flag why don't you pick a recent topic.

txcoastal1

DJ, as you speak so eloquently, may I say you have a real purdy mouth

tonyb

djwest78 wrote: »

McLoki wrote: »

Damn - never trust a review. You are absolutely correct - look at page 13 of the owners manual... (it states 6-16ohm and when rear speakers are used 8 - 16 ohm.

The use of rear speakers does not introduce requirements for higher impedance speakers. Please tell me where in the manual this is stated. It is 6-16ohm whether 1 or 7 speakers are being driven. The only time the ohm requirements change is when a second set of surround b speakers are being used simultaneously (a+b), as this creates a 4 ohm load, because 4 speakers are sharing 2 channels of power (parallel).

Well, if one must....I'll go down that road.

Point being to all this is.....a receiver has limited current available because of a shared power supply, and a weak one at that. The more speakers you add to a receiver, the more taxed that power supply is in a receiver. So yes, basically....a receiver IS a receiver and a power amp IS a power amp.

The OP has LSI's, they demand some good current being 4 ohm speakers. Current I might add most receivers simply can't dish out, hence the call to add an amp into the mix. It's not rocket science, people simply need to understand what they are buying and what is needed to power them correctly. Unless you have nothing better to do than call customer service every month when you fry a tweeter or the receiver goes into protect mode too often and won't come back out.

We are here to help, save people some coin and the aggravation of having to fix things because of user error. Choice is always up to you, the end user.

nooshinjohn

djwest78 wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

He's looking to add red letters under his user name like the OP.

Over 3 years later...No red letters...no ban...however you are still grossly overweight and incredibly difficult to look at for more than a second or two. Congrats?

How about a bright red square for you then?

Reported.

BlueFox

djwest78 wrote: »

A receiver is not a receiver, and a power amp is not a power amp. The only intelligent way to compare one to the other is to do exactly that.

LOL. Thanks for clearing that up.

ken brydson

nooshinjohn wrote: »

djwest78 wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

He's looking to add red letters under his user name like the OP.

Over 3 years later...No red letters...no ban...however you are still grossly overweight and incredibly difficult to look at for more than a second or two. Congrats?

How about a bright red square for you then?

Reported.

Beat you to it...

mrbigbluelight

cfrizz wrote: »

Do whatever you want, but if your receiver goes into protect mode from being up too loud for too long a time, or you fry one of your speakers, don't come crying on here.

Now, Ms. Cfizz, that's not very inclusive !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxvzEfI0BFU

rpf65

Now audio gear needs a safe space? Guess I need to find some sensitivity training somewhere.