Powerport and dedicated circuit

Polkitup2Polkitup2 Posts: 1,413
edited December 2008 in 2 Channel Audio
I will be installing a PS audio powerport and am thinking about installing a dedicated electrical circuit. I have seen some sites that recommend using 10 gauge wire. Not sure why this would be better than 12 gauge wire. My system will probably only draw a couple of amps. Any benefits to using the larger gauge?
Post edited by Polkitup2 on
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Comments

  • curvedcurved Posts: 664
    edited December 2008
    I have 12awg for my 20 amp circuit. 14 for 15 amp.
    Living Room:....................[HTML] [/HTML] Zone 2 (Workout Room):
    AVR - Yamaha RX-V757......JBL 4312 Pro Monitors
    Pre - Nak CA-5
    AMP - Adcom 555 (Main)
    Main - Polk RTI8**/RTiA5
    AMP - Adcom 545II (Center)
    Center - Polk CSiA4**
    Sub - Snell Basis 300:p......Zone 3 (Outside)
    CD - Yamaha CDC-555.......Def Tech AW5500
    TV - Pani TH-42PZ80U
    BR - LG BD390
    Monster HTS1600 Power Center
    Dedicated Circuit - (2) 20amp, (1) 15amp
    Ben's IC, Canare 4S11

    **Dayton and Sonicap Caps with Mills Resistors**
  • ben62670ben62670 Posts: 16,077
    edited December 2008
    If you have a longer run the 10ga might be better. 50' or under I would stick with 12. Its more about voltage drop than current.
    Same topic
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75784
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • Polkitup2Polkitup2 Posts: 1,413
    edited December 2008
    It's only about a 25 foot run. I think I'll go with the 12, cheaper and easier to work with. Thanks.

    Update: here's a neat voltage drop calculator, http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
  • reeltrouble1reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,313
    edited December 2008
    I would put in, well actually I did put in a 30 amp circuit for my amps, if you ever get a man amp you will be glad you did.

    But if cheap and easy is the way need to go its better than nothing.

    RT1
    REEL TIME THEATRE
    Onkyo-TX-NR5007
    B&K 7270 amplifier
    Polk SWA-500 Subwoofer amplifier
    OppO BDP-83
    Pioneer Elite 50"
    Polk LCi-RTS-105;LCi-RTS-C;LCi-RTSFx;LCi80Fx
    Subs-Twin Polk CSW200
    HTS5000



    Everthing Matters...Tubes Rule...and It's Over until it's Not Over
  • ben62670ben62670 Posts: 16,077
    edited December 2008
    $ Adcom GFA-565's, 1 Adcom GFA-585, and all the electronics on one 20 amp circuit. We did a test at my little get together here. The run was about 30 feet of wire from the panel. We had the big speakers with 34 drivers driven with peaks of 123db. The voltage never dropped. I don't know how much more current could possible be used in a home than to drive that many drivers to that level. Longer runs sure bump it up a notch. A short rum with 2 20 amp circuits will never be maxed out. That was a little over 2000 watts rms at 4ohms. Oops I forgot we had Polk's top of the line sub maxed out too;)
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • reeltrouble1reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,313
    edited December 2008
    Well if Adcom is your standard then that may true.

    RT1
    REEL TIME THEATRE
    Onkyo-TX-NR5007
    B&K 7270 amplifier
    Polk SWA-500 Subwoofer amplifier
    OppO BDP-83
    Pioneer Elite 50"
    Polk LCi-RTS-105;LCi-RTS-C;LCi-RTSFx;LCi80Fx
    Subs-Twin Polk CSW200
    HTS5000



    Everthing Matters...Tubes Rule...and It's Over until it's Not Over
  • ben62670ben62670 Posts: 16,077
    edited December 2008
    Well if Adcom is your standard then that may true.

    RT1

    Yeah everyone know that Adcom's biggest amps draw no current:rolleyes:
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • disneyjoe7disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,520
    edited December 2008
    Ben, you have to admit theres a higher level to be had over Adcom. Not that is bad, but its not icing on the cake either.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • ben62670ben62670 Posts: 16,077
    edited December 2008
    disneyjoe7 wrote: »
    Ben, you have to admit theres a higher level to be had over Adcom. Not that is bad, but its not icing on the cake either.

    Absolutely. My point was current, and voltage. The OP was questioning the value of adding a dedicated circuit. My point was that even running a bunch of high current amps there was no voltage drop with a single circuit. The dedicated circuit is more a function of good clean power than anything else. I don't know why Teddy feels the need to insult someones gear when my point was just the amps alone are fused for a total of 75amps(5*15), and there was no voltage drop with a single 20amp circuit. I am not claiming that having good current available isn't a bonus. Teddy seems to like to insult me. This isn't the first time nor the last. Maybe someday I can aspire to have gear like Teddy has:rolleyes:
    Ben
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • disneyjoe7disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,520
    edited December 2008
    Ben,

    Perhaps you should hear some of this stuff with your own ears, during a PolkFest one year and that would change your mind. I thinks its less of an insult but more of the fact you can't see his point over voltage dips.


    Steve



    Oh I think we all Aspire to have what Ted has. That B&$^$ ;)

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • ben62670ben62670 Posts: 16,077
    edited December 2008
    Yes Teddy has some nice gear:) Yes I have done the dedicated circuits. Without a doubt a good solid dedicated circuit is a very nice upgrade. I am installing one soon here;) The problem with normal circuits is that an outlet is tied to another outlet that is tied to another outlet that is tied to a light that is tied to an outlet... All these extra connections is where SQ, and noise are most effected IMHO.

    Ben

    Edit: I can't edit post 6. The $ should be a 4:o
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • disneyjoe7disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,520
    edited December 2008
    Ben, Your thinking of connections and noise levels is an eye opener, and may indeed fall into DK's thinking of power and what not.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • ben62670ben62670 Posts: 16,077
    edited December 2008
    I did a little experiment a while back. I took a 14/3 40' extension cord, and ran my system with it for haha's. I plugged it into the washing machine outlet 5 feet from the main panel in the basement. There were definite audio improvements with running a cheap extension cable over the normal in house wiring. In house wiring is not designed for optimal noise rejection, or power quality. This is the same reason why many intelligent companies use dedicated outlets on data sensitive equipment. Also 14/3 stranded is better than 14/3 solid. I would someday like to do a test between 12/3 stranded(BX metal sheathing) vs 12/3 romex. I know for a fact stranded is better at handling current, and maintaining voltage than solid. Also the metal casing would reject RFI better than romex. That is why it is used in commercial applications;) Just an uneducated guess, but I think that the aftermarket power cords with heavy gage and a high strand count clean things up. Many users of PC's have stated that more improvement was had by using the PC's on source than amps;)
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • disneyjoe7disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,520
    edited December 2008
    Interesting, I once had a large issue with noise with a Famous strip club in Orlando. The issue was in the fire alarm horn circuit were at night it would trip into trouble, I searched high and low many days looking for a bad connection somewhere in the horn circuit. After many hours found my issue, the fire alarm wiring being fire wire but not run in conduit the Neon lights around the building was causing such RFI noise on line the fire panel would sense trouble. Your quote on commercial applications made me think of that trouble I had one day well many many days. And I say one thing no I wasn't milking it, I actually felt the girls where Ugly with the lights on.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • Polkitup2Polkitup2 Posts: 1,413
    edited December 2008
    I would put in, well actually I did put in a 30 amp circuit for my amps, if you ever get a man amp you will be glad you did.

    But if cheap and easy is the way need to go its better than nothing.

    RT1

    Actually, I like cheap and easy as long as I am not missing out on anything. If I thought I could get some benefit from spending more I would. It's just that with my 36 watt MF integrated and the short run I have, it just didn't make sense to go bigger. I'm all ears, hell even my wife was laughing this afternoon that I only spent $15 for the 12 gauge wire. She said, "don't you need some special wire to go with your $50 outlet?"
  • disneyjoe7disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,520
    edited December 2008
    Some of us wonder if Ted's 30 amp thing is even legal.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • ben62670ben62670 Posts: 16,077
    edited December 2008
    Its legal if he is using a 20 amp breaker with a 20 amp outlet. If he is using a 20 amp outlet with a 30 amp breaker that may not be Kosher.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • Polkitup2Polkitup2 Posts: 1,413
    edited December 2008
    Isn't his setup detached from the house? - I'm guessing he can do whatever the heck he wants to out there.
  • disneyjoe7disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,520
    edited December 2008
    Well we have to see how Ted explains this one about his 30 amp circuit, I'll be all ears. :)

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • curvedcurved Posts: 664
    edited December 2008
    lol......this thread cracks me up. I think I'll stick with my 20 ;)
    Living Room:....................[HTML] [/HTML] Zone 2 (Workout Room):
    AVR - Yamaha RX-V757......JBL 4312 Pro Monitors
    Pre - Nak CA-5
    AMP - Adcom 555 (Main)
    Main - Polk RTI8**/RTiA5
    AMP - Adcom 545II (Center)
    Center - Polk CSiA4**
    Sub - Snell Basis 300:p......Zone 3 (Outside)
    CD - Yamaha CDC-555.......Def Tech AW5500
    TV - Pani TH-42PZ80U
    BR - LG BD390
    Monster HTS1600 Power Center
    Dedicated Circuit - (2) 20amp, (1) 15amp
    Ben's IC, Canare 4S11

    **Dayton and Sonicap Caps with Mills Resistors**
  • ben62670ben62670 Posts: 16,077
    edited December 2008
    If you are a true audiophile you would run copper pipe all the way from the meter to the outlet. Inside the copper pipe you would use 10 gage silver plated copper stranded wire braided all the way from the meter to the outlet. The ground wire would be attached at both ends, and the copper pipe would only be grounded at the meter. This way any stray RFI, or EMI would drain to the power source, and not to the dedicated audio outlet. Some reading this may think I am kidding, but I am serious.
    Ben

    Edit: One step further you would use the same setup as above, but use a very high quality generator. Line voltage often carries signal noise used to transfer data from meters to the power company. This is bad Juju to a real man;)
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • disneyjoe7disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,520
    edited December 2008
    3/4" pipe or whould the 1/2" do? And is that the M stuff or what?

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • ben62670ben62670 Posts: 16,077
    edited December 2008
    I would use 1" and place ceramic towers every 10.679352 inches apart in the pipe to keep the wires insulation from touching the pipe itself. The 10.679352 inches is not critical. You can use this measurement +or-.000002 inches.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • disneyjoe7disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,520
    edited December 2008
    You can use this measurement +or-.000002 inches.

    What's the a P hair?

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • ben62670ben62670 Posts: 16,077
    edited December 2008
    I googled "diameter of pu$$y hair" and I came up with this...
    http://flickr.com/groups/sphynxlovers/discuss/72157606258662053/
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • disneyjoe7disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,520
    edited December 2008
    I have to see that later, work computer. :)

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • ben62670ben62670 Posts: 16,077
    edited December 2008
    disneyjoe7 wrote: »
    I have to see that later, work computer. :)

    It is work friendly:)
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • disneyjoe7disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,520
    edited December 2008
    LOL:D But just the title of that page is iffy at my work.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


  • ben62670ben62670 Posts: 16,077
    edited December 2008
    Google comes up with some funny stuff:D
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
  • mmadden28mmadden28 Posts: 4,327
    edited December 2008
    ben62670 wrote: »
    Its legal if he is using a 20 amp breaker with a 20 amp outlet. If he is using a 20 amp outlet with a 30 amp breaker that may not be Kosher.

    Do they even make a 30A rated receptacle that standard power cords would work in? If not then I'd venture to guess that he has a custom power cord. That or he has multiple recepticles on the circuit.
    ____________________
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