Making connections to PSW10

KennethSwaugerKennethSwauger ModeratorPosts: 5,875
Hello,
There is an error in the PSW10 owner's manual, there isn't an LFE input on that model. However, that shouldn't be a problem. All you would need to do is connect the single sub-woofer output, of the receiver, to either the right or left input on the sub-woofer (the sub-woofer's bass amplifier adds the two channels together so a connection to either one is fine). Or, if you prefer, you may use a "Y" cable to provide a connection to both inputs on the sub-woofer. While this doesn't change the sound quality it will allow the sub-woofer to play louder at each of it's volume control positions.
The second thing you would need to do is set the variable low pass filter, on the sub-woofer, to the highest setting (the variable low pass filter is the dial that has "Hz" labeled). This will set the internal low pass filter above the low pass filter frequency given by your receiver and, in effect, create an LFE input. If you have any questions please telephone us at 1-800-377-7655 and we'll be happy to help.
Regards, Ken, Polk Audio
Old adage: "Attach enough feathers and you can get anything to fly."
Post edited by PolkTeam on
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Comments

  • jakelmjakelm Posts: 4,123
    edited May 2006
    Thanks Ken. If I may ask. Is there anything to do about port noise on this sub? At higher dbs I noticed there is no distortion coming from the driver but the port noise is very noticable. Any idea?

    I've tried the "rumor" of the straw effect. I've also tried changing the stuffing around inside the cabinet. Nothing seems to work. I did notice there is no flare at the other end of the port, maybe this?

    Jake
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


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  • KennethSwaugerKennethSwauger Moderator Posts: 5,875
    edited May 2006
    Hello Jake,
    Air can leave a vented enclosure in either one of two ways, organized or random. Kind of like how people can leave a crowded room, everybody trying to get out of the same door at the same time. Or, one-at-a-time in a single file. In the case of air that is organized it is called, "laminar flow" and random movement is called "turbulent". What you might be hearing is turbulence causing port noise at higher volumes. In most cases when the output of the sub-woofer is matched to the playing volumes of the speakers that are being used with the sub-woofer port noise is inaudible. However, if the volume of the sub-woofer is elevated to a level greater than the speakers used with it, port noise can be audible (another reason to calibrate your system for a flat response). I suppose you could compare this to the signal-to-noise ratio of your receiver. Normally the noise floor, of my receiver, is much lower than the music being played. But, if I turn up the treble control on my receiver and increase the overall volume the noise can become a more significant part of the total signal and can become audible. I've missadjusted my receiver's tone controls and now I begin hearing the elevated noise floor.
    So, my advice is the best way to eliminate port noise is to adjust the level of your sub-woofer so the signal it is producing is the same as the level of signal coming from your front speakers. The best way to do this is to begin playing a CD that has well recorded bass information. Where the people who made the disc tried to get a realistic quality to the sound, especially the bass. Then turn the bass level, on the sub-woofer, all of the way down (its helpful to have a friend help with this). Then slowly increase the bass level until you can just detect the sub-woofer as a separate sound source. At this point stop increasing the bass level and reduce the setting a very small amount. Most of us can hear a difference level between two sources of around 1 dB. So, when you can hear the sub-woofer as a separate sound source it is probably 1 dB greater than the main speakers. Then when you reduce it a tiny amount you have "zeroed in" on the right level for the sub-woofer.
    Trust me on this, if you do this and resist the temptation to turn up the bass you'll begin to hear improved bass definition. For a while its going to sound as though there's no bass, because you're used to an elevated bass level, but after a few days listening you'll start to hear far more bass detail and a smoother quality to the sound and any port noise will be inaudible. Give it a try.
    Regards, Ken
    Old adage: "Attach enough feathers and you can get anything to fly."
  • jakelmjakelm Posts: 4,123
    edited May 2006
    Thanks for the quik reply Ken. My system is calibrated. My sub is calibrated only 3dbs hotter than the mains according to the Radio Shack SPL meter and the test tones on my Onkyo. The problem is at >95dbs the port is noticable.

    What I think I will do is change out the port with the same deminsions, just going with PVC flared at both ends, to "organize" the air rushing out and see if that helps at higher (>95dbs) volumes.

    But thanks again,

    Jake
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!:eek:
  • jakelmjakelm Posts: 4,123
    edited May 2006
    Oh...Not to hold you up, but, you wouldnt happen to know the tuning Fr of the box and port? From test I'm thinking around 38-42hz. I might extend the port another 1.5 inches to lower the tuning Fr.
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!:eek:
  • simphiwessimphiwes Posts: 116
    edited May 2006
    How much more different would a sub with the LFE-in sound from the one without. i am going to buy the PSW 505 i would like to know what value this option will add to my HT set up? i am getting both the Rti8 and the PSW 505 trading in the PSW10 i am not sure if i should get the PSW 404 instead, the size of my room is 3.8 meters by 4.8meters.
    (((((STEREO)))))
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    Front: Rti8
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    Behringer DAC
  • KennethSwaugerKennethSwauger Moderator Posts: 5,875
    edited May 2006
    Hello,
    I'll check with the engineering folks for the tuning frequency of the sub and let you know.
    The LFE input is a way to avoid "double filtering" since it bypasses the internal variable low pass filter. Since the audio signal coming from the receiver's sub-out connection is already being filtered there isn't any reason to do any additional filtering. Often if the filtering frequencies are close enough the two can interact and reduce the crossover point. If your sub-woofer doesn't have an LFE input you can raise the unit's variable low pass filter above the crossover frequency coming from the receiver and accomplish the same thing.
    Regards, Ken
    Old adage: "Attach enough feathers and you can get anything to fly."
  • jakelmjakelm Posts: 4,123
    edited May 2006
    Thanks Ken. I'm a DIY type of guy, always tweeking something. Knowing the tuning Fr of the PsW10, would give me a good idea of what I'm working with.

    Jake
    Monitor 7b's front
    Monitor 4's surround
    Frankinpolk Center (2 mw6503's with peerless tweeter)
    M10's back surround
    Hafler-200 driving patio Daytons
    Tempest-X 15" DIY sub w/ Rythmik 350A plate amp
    Dayton 12" DVC w/ Rythmik 350a plate amp
    Harman/Kardon AVR-635
    Oppo 981hd
    Denon upconvert DVD player
    Jennings Research (vintage and rare)
    Mit RPTV WS-55513
    Tosh HD-XA1
    B&K AV5000


    Dont BAN me Bro!!!!:eek:
  • roger218roger218 Posts: 1
    edited May 2006
    simphiwes wrote:
    How much more different would a sub with the LFE-in sound from the one without. i am going to buy the PSW 505 i would like to know what value this option will add to my HT set up? i am getting both the Rti8 and the PSW 505 trading in the PSW10 i am not sure if i should get the PSW 404 instead, the size of my room is 3.8 meters by 4.8meters.
    iwould go with the PSW505 because the watts are about the same as the RTi 8s and for the price differance it would be worth it as they are on sale now at crutchfield
  • deeplfodeeplfo Posts: 4
    edited August 2006
    Three questions on connecting PSW-10s:

    1) I am placing the sub remote from the AVR, and I want to run the line level cables in the walls. What cables can I do to do that job, RG6 quad shield, 22 AWG shielded 2-conductor, etc.... Any advise?

    2) In the manual it shows a connection option where you bring in the AVR's front L/R and attach it to the PSW-10's speaker input levels, and then you run the PSW-10's speaker outputs to the actual front L/R speakers. My question is does the sub actually work as a sub in this connection? I ask because the manual says for this options that "Subwoofer = No"!!!!

    3) If you go with the sub's speaker level in/out connection option (above) would you still need to power up the sub? Or is power always necessary whether the line level is used or not?

    Thanks,
    mohsen
  • MLZMLZ Posts: 214
    edited October 2006
    For my 11 x 11 den / home office I have a budget 2 channel system on which I play 100% music. I have R50's and just purchased a PSW10. The receiver is a 2 channel Onkyo without a sub out or any setup options.

    I used the "Polk Setup" for the speakers i.e., left & right channels from the receiver to the sub and then from the sub to the R50's.

    Does this make sense?

    Also where do I intially start the subs crossover 100? (I plan on getting a calibration cd soon.)

    Also, what is the answer to #3 in Deepflo's post?
  • turbo311turbo311 Posts: 10
    edited November 2006
    Glad I found this! I noticed the error in the manual and got scared knowing next to nothing about subs.

    2 questions:

    1. I did it just cause you told me to, but why set the low pass to highest?

    2. The phase switch... Would I be correct in guessing the 180 setting sends sound out in a 180 degree forward field while the 0 degree setting sends sound in every direction (or in no particular direction)? And thus 180 would be better for music and 0 for home theater uses?

    Thanks!
  • PoppaDogPoppaDog Posts: 8
    edited November 2006
    Just Purchased a pair of LSi7's and got the free sub.
    Wasnt too impressed with the manual instructions until I found this.
    Thanks for the info.

    L/R:Mon. 70's
    Center: CSi3
    Sur.:LSi7's
    Sur.Back:Unknown
    PSW10
    Denon 3806
  • silvercbrsilvercbr Posts: 7
    edited January 2007
    Hello,
    I just purchased the Surround Bar, the PSW10 sub and an Onkyo TX-SR804 receiver and had the following questions.

    1) I'm using the subwoofer output on my receiver to connect into my psw10's left input. Although, your documentation suggests running speaker wires from the L & R front speakers to the subwoofer. Which is the better option? Also, if i use the setup I have now, should i use a y-adapter since the psw10 doesn't have a LFE input? Your first post suggests that it might be best to do so.
    2) My receiver doesn't have a general speaker setting for large/small. It does, although, let you calibrate the frequency for each channel (the defaults are set to 80hz). Also, how much gain, if any, should I give each surround bar speaker. One review said to give the surround +6db gain.
    3) What would be the best settings for my PSW10 when utilizing the sound bar (sound level, frequency, 0/180).

    Thanks!
  • TheReaperTheReaper Posts: 637
    edited January 2007
    silvercbr wrote:
    ...My receiver doesn't have a general speaker setting for large/small. It does, although, let you calibrate the frequency for each channel (the defaults are set to 80hz)...
    If you set a frequency for a channel (eg. 80hz), that is the same as setting the speaker to "small". If you set a channel to full band, that is the same as setting a speaker to "large".

    I will leave your other questions, to people who know the answers (I don't know about the surround bar).
  • silvercbrsilvercbr Posts: 7
    edited January 2007
    I set my front, center and surround to Full Band. Although, now I'm not getting anything to my sub. My receiver's subwoofer settings are set to:

    ON
    LPF of LFE - 80hz (options are 90, 100 or 120)
    Subwoofer mode - LFE only (other option is Double bass which, in addition to LFE channel sounds, the subwoofer outputs front left and right channel bass sounds)

    Soooooo, I'm wondering if I should
    a) keep the speaker settings at Full Band and adjust my subwoofer settings? OR
    b) hook up the PSW10 via speaker level inputs (from the front right and left channels), turn off the sub in the receiver and set all speakers to full band (this was Polk's suggestion in the SurroundBar guide but I already went and bought a nice subwoofer cable :(
  • TheReaperTheReaper Posts: 637
    edited January 2007
    General hookup scenarios:

    1) When using the RCA subwoofer out from your AVR (receiver) to sub-woofer (single LFE connection, or Y cable to L/R in on sub).

    In your avr settings, set all speakers to small with your desired crossover (depends on speakers being used), and tell the receiver you have a sub-woofer (sub on).

    On your sub-woofer, turn the xover dial on the sub-woofer all the way up, then adjust the sub volume to blend, finally flip the phase switch (if the sub has one) to the position where it sounds best.

    2) L/R speaker wire output from your AVR to sub-woofer speaker wire L/R in, then sub-woofer speaker wire out to L/R speakers.

    In your avr settings, set your L/R speakers to large (full band), then set all other speakers to small with your desired crossover (depends on speakers being used), and tell the receiver you do not have a sub-woofer (sub off).

    On your sub-woofer, turn the xover dial on the sub-woofer to get the best bass (depends on speakers being used), and also adjust the sub volume to blend, finally flip the phase switch (if the sub has one) to the position where it sounds best.

    Note: The above work with most receivers, but not all. There are also variations on the above (eg. setting some speakers to large, double bass), but the above are good starting points. As to which works/sounds best, that is up to you.

    What cross over point (xover)?

    This depends on your speakers. Look at the manuals or manufacturers web site. It is usually recommended that xover points be above the -3db lower limit of the speakers. If your speakers have enough range, THX recommends 80hz, which is a good starting point. I recommend experimenting with the xover point to find what sounds best to you.
  • fireshoesfireshoes Posts: 3,212
    edited January 2007
    silvercbr wrote:
    I set my front, center and surround to Full Band. Although, now I'm not getting anything to my sub. My receiver's subwoofer settings are set to:

    ON
    LPF of LFE - 80hz (options are 90, 100 or 120)
    Subwoofer mode - LFE only (other option is Double bass which, in addition to LFE channel sounds, the subwoofer outputs front left and right channel bass sounds)

    Soooooo, I'm wondering if I should
    a) keep the speaker settings at Full Band and adjust my subwoofer settings? OR
    b) hook up the PSW10 via speaker level inputs (from the front right and left channels), turn off the sub in the receiver and set all speakers to full band (this was Polk's suggestion in the SurroundBar guide but I already went and bought a nice subwoofer cable :(

    Go ahead and use your sub cable. Make sure to turn the low pass all the way up on the sub. Your Onkyo should have come with a setup mic that you plug into the front of the receiver and then place where you will be seated normally. On the receiver menu, there is an option for auto setup. It will determine the proper distance and volume for each speaker, as well as set the crossover on the receiver and EQ each speaker.
  • silvercbrsilvercbr Posts: 7
    edited January 2007
    fireshoes wrote:
    Go ahead and use your sub cable. Make sure to turn the low pass all the way up on the sub. Your Onkyo should have come with a setup mic that you plug into the front of the receiver and then place where you will be seated normally. On the receiver menu, there is an option for auto setup. It will determine the proper distance and volume for each speaker, as well as set the crossover on the receiver and EQ each speaker.

    Unfortunately, using the setup mic is not recommended or useful when using the Polk Surround Bar.
  • rf5000rf5000 Posts: 2
    edited April 2007
    Hello Kenneth,

    I'm currently running a 7.1 surround system. I'm using 3 pairs of Rti12s with a CSi5 center. I also have a Paradigm bandpass encolsed 12 inch powered sub. I'm pushing about 250 watts to each of the 7 channels. This system really rocks the way it is now and has an amazing amount of bass. I have somewhat of an addiction though, so I decided to throw in a PSW10 subwoofer to see what happens. Here is where my problem is. I have a single output on my reciever for subwoofer output. I thought that I could plug a Y connector in there and run a single wire to my paradigm and a single wire to my PSW10 and have them work together flawlessly. This is not the case. When I do this, the Paradigm works fine, but I can't get the PSW10 to work. Please help me with this. Also, I would lke to know if using a y connector affects the sound quality, volume levels, or if this damages the sub in anyway. Please post back ASAP. Thanks.
  • FaceFace Posts: 14,712
    edited April 2007
    Many of us use Y's to run multiple subs. I had 2 infinity subs and a PSW10 hooked up using 2 Y's without a problem.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
  • engtazengtaz Posts: 7,501
    edited May 2007
    Some with older Subs (with 2 rca's in) use Y outs of Subs (2-M/1-F) and AVR (1-M/2-F) then run single M/M RCA's from AVR to Subs
    engtaz

    I love how music can brighten up a bad day.
  • Puggsley456Puggsley456 Posts: 1
    edited May 2007
    Yes Kenneth pleas post the over all tuning specs of the port. I just picked one of these up today. And I must say I am impressed sofar.
  • john22614john22614 Posts: 214
    edited July 2007
    Ken,

    When using the LFE out from the AVR with a Y splitter connection to the sub(in my case a Yamaha RXV630 with a set crossover at 90Hz to a PSW1000) why should i set the crossover on the sub all the way up to 120Hz rather than 90? Have my LSI9's set to small by the way. Thanks
    B&W 804s mains
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  • seeclearseeclear Posts: 1,226
    edited July 2007
    john22614 wrote: »
    Ken,

    When using the LFE out from the AVR with a Y splitter connection to the sub(in my case a Yamaha RXV630 with a set crossover at 90Hz to a PSW1000) why should i set the crossover on the sub all the way up to 120Hz rather than 90? Have my LSI9's set to small by the way. Thanks

    My understanding is that you don't want two crossovers actively processing the signal. Your AVR probably has a setting for the low pass, and you want to set the crossover on the sub up high so that it can take all the signal that the AVR sends it without "cutting" it at all. It seems the reverse option (setting the AVR crossover to the highest point and adjusting using the crossover on the sub) would adversely affect the low midrange output from the other speaks in the rig.
    "Don't forget to change your politician. They are like diapers they need to be changed regularly, and for the same reason."
  • r2ltir2lti Posts: 2
    edited July 2007
    Ken,
    Thank you for insight into a single connection vs. a "Y" to the PSW10 - now an additional question that is related: You said the sound will be greater using the "Y" - why is that, is it equivalent to bringing more power to the sub? I just installed a PSW10 using the single subwoofer output jack (80Hz crossover at the receiver, subwoofer filter all the way clockwise, and adjusted to about 3/4 volume level) and feel I need more base, without having to adjust this individual speaker at the receiver all the way up, or cranking the speaker volume control to max. Also, how does using a "Y" compare to just running two independent cables from the receiver (Onkyo TX-SR504) outputs? Speakers are presently connected to the receiver in all cases (i.e. Polk R50 fronts).
    Thanks,
    r2lti
  • cavitycavity Posts: 1
    edited September 2007
    Thanks for this thread, I came to this forum to find out if I should use a Y or just leave the single connection. My new psw10 isn't as loud as I expected with only half the input signal.
    It would have been nice to get a Y with the sub, but for $200 after taxes, I can afford to buy one from canadian tire.

    Chris
  • sandelmansandelman Posts: 21
    edited December 2007
    wrong post....sorry
  • jflail2jflail2 Posts: 2,673
    edited January 2008
    Would setting the speakers to small in scenario 1 (using an LFE) apply even to larger floor stand speakers? I have a pair of RTi-10's as fronts...
    TheReaper wrote: »
    General hookup scenarios:

    1) When using the RCA subwoofer out from your AVR (receiver) to sub-woofer (single LFE connection, or Y cable to L/R in on sub).

    In your avr settings, set all speakers to small with your desired crossover (depends on speakers being used), and tell the receiver you have a sub-woofer (sub on).

    On your sub-woofer, turn the xover dial on the sub-woofer all the way up, then adjust the sub volume to blend, finally flip the phase switch (if the sub has one) to the position where it sounds best.

    2) L/R speaker wire output from your AVR to sub-woofer speaker wire L/R in, then sub-woofer speaker wire out to L/R speakers.

    In your avr settings, set your L/R speakers to large (full band), then set all other speakers to small with your desired crossover (depends on speakers being used), and tell the receiver you do not have a sub-woofer (sub off).

    On your sub-woofer, turn the xover dial on the sub-woofer to get the best bass (depends on speakers being used), and also adjust the sub volume to blend, finally flip the phase switch (if the sub has one) to the position where it sounds best.

    Note: The above work with most receivers, but not all. There are also variations on the above (eg. setting some speakers to large, double bass), but the above are good starting points. As to which works/sounds best, that is up to you.

    What cross over point (xover)?

    This depends on your speakers. Look at the manuals or manufacturers web site. It is usually recommended that xover points be above the -3db lower limit of the speakers. If your speakers have enough range, THX recommends 80hz, which is a good starting point. I recommend experimenting with the xover point to find what sounds best to you.
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  • fossyfossy Posts: 1,385
    edited April 2008
    Hello,
    There is an error in the PSW10 owner's manual, there isn't an LFE input on that model. However, that shouldn't be a problem. All you would need to do is connect the single sub-woofer output, of the receiver, to either the right or left input on the sub-woofer (the sub-woofer's bass amplifier adds the two channels together so a connection to either one is fine). Or, if you prefer, you may use a "Y" cable to provide a connection to both inputs on the sub-woofer. While this doesn't change the sound quality it will allow the sub-woofer to play louder at each of it's volume control positions.
    The second thing you would need to do is set the variable low pass filter, on the sub-woofer, to the highest setting (the variable low pass filter is the dial that has "Hz" labeled). This will set the internal low pass filter above the low pass filter frequency given by your receiver and, in effect, create an LFE input. If you have any questions please telephone us at 1-800-377-7655 and we'll be happy to help.
    Regards, Ken, Polk Audio

    Thanks for the info KEN --- it has made a difference -- much more consistent -- i was having to adjust the sub all the time--- I'm new to the sub kinda sound but i like it
  • erm93cterm93ct Posts: 14
    edited July 2008
    i have a psw303 and it is rediculous
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