Improved SDA Interconnect Cables

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Comments

  • bsoko2bsoko2 Posts: 1,459
    edited January 2010
    I just upgraded my 2.3TL's with the RDO198's.

    Bill
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,108
    edited January 2010
    I believe my 1.2TLs have the older tweeter, I think its R0194 (havnt opened up the tweeters to verify), but do you think that upgrading to the R0198 would be worthwhile? As you know, the cost to upgrade will be roughly $500. Do you think its worth it?

    It was worth it to me. You may not like them. Some people prefer the original tweeters. If you don't like them you can send them back. It takes about 50 hours for the RD0198 to break in, so don't do any critical listening before then.
    What is a "non-common-ground" amp, and why would a manufacturer create such an amp? What benefits does a non-common-ground amp offer? Would it be lower ohm ratings?

    Ohm ratings are not pertinent to common ground or non-common ground design.

    A non-common ground, also called isolated ground, amp does not have the ground paths of both channels tied together. Isolating the ground paths can result in improved sound quality due to lower noise, greater stereo separation and lower "cross talk" between channels. If both channels have their own power supply, that contributes to better sound also.

    SDA speakers use an amplifier's ground path to complete the SDA circuit. Non-common ground amps, without an AI-1 interface, can cause short circuits.
    Do you guys ever have guests come over and they are just astonished when they see your speakers? My co-workers were impressed!!! I call them "the coffin" speakers. ;-)

    They are not astonished when they see the speakers. I have a long equipment cabinet between the speakers and most non-audio oriented people assume the speakers are side cabinets that make up part of an entertainment center. Some people have been astonished when they found out the entire "side cabinet" was a single speaker.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • hearingimparedhearingimpared Banned Posts: 21,473
    edited January 2010
    Hearing Impared and DarqueKnight -

    Thanks much for your thoughts.
    Quesiton for you both - I believe my 1.2TLs have the older tweeter, I think its R0194 (havnt opened up the tweeters to verify), but do you think that upgrading to the R0198 would be worthwhile? As you know, the cost to upgrade will be roughly $500. Do you think its worth it?

    For Hearing - have you thought about performing the interconnect upgrade and just leave the current wiring in place so that you could use an AI-1 connector for non-common-ground amps?

    Also for you both -
    What is a "non-common-ground" amp, and why would a manufacturer create such an amp? What benefits does a non-common-ground amp offer? Would it be lower ohm ratings?

    As an off-topic, but still on topic for "speaker mods", after reading DarqueKnights post about Mortite, I just picked some up at Home Depot today. Now you know what I will be working on this weekend. Hearing - I will be going on line to purchase some Dynamat dampners and some spikes for the 1.2TLs as you suggested. I have a hardwood floor and I am using flat feet. Not sure what benefits I will get from the spikes vs. flats or why that would matter, but some say its worth it.
    Do you guys ever have guests come over and they are just astonished when they see your speakers? My co-workers were impressed!!! I call them "the coffin" speakers. ;-)

    Currently, I have no need to perform that upgrade. You can bet that if I ever do I will use Dargueknight's thread as a guide to keep the original SDA sockets in place as well as perform the single cable upgrade.


    I wrote two long detailed posts concerning the use of Dynamat and spiking the speakers in your "Dynamat question" thread. They somehow disappeared. In any case, the short version is you will hear a subtle difference with the Dynamat in clarity and imaging and a dramatic difference with the spikes producing tighter bass, imaging and soundstaging. Keep in mind that these tweaks are cumulative. Both tweaks control unwanted resonance Dynamat on the driver and PR baskets and spikes in cabinet resonance control.
    sucks2beme wrote: »
    Crap is a sound signature, isn't it?
    madmax wrote: »
    Nothing like vinyl, thats for sure.
    madmax


    Quotes of the year!!!
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 13,222
    edited January 2010
    I would wait to do The mortite till you get the dynamat IMO.

    When all said and done you will love it.
    Death Grip...
  • hearingimparedhearingimpared Banned Posts: 21,473
    edited January 2010
    I would wait to do The mortite till you get the dynamat IMO.

    When all said and done you will love it.

    Yep, no sense in sealing them until you are pretty sure you are done with the innards.
    sucks2beme wrote: »
    Crap is a sound signature, isn't it?
    madmax wrote: »
    Nothing like vinyl, thats for sure.
    madmax


    Quotes of the year!!!
  • PolkMaster1PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2010
    I am in full agreement with you both about waiting for the Dynamat before applying the Mortite, but I just cant wait...

    Thanks to you both for your valuable input!!!

    As for DarqueKnight - you need to either take off the grilles when you have company over, or you need new guests. ;-)

    My co-workers have been over and they were easly impressed that the speakers are as tall as them! I bet they would have been even more impressed if I didn't play back the speakers using an iPod. ;-)
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
  • PolkMaster1PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2010
    It was worth it to me. You may not like them. Some people prefer the original tweeters. If you don't like them you can send them back. It takes about 50 hours for the RD0198 to break in, so don't do any critical listening before then.

    After opening the cabinets, I found out that I have the SL3000 tweeters, as you had mentioned previously. Time to spend more money on these speakers. I wonder if I can open a line of credit with Polk and get 0% interest for 12 months. I am still waiting for that offer from Polk Audio to come in the mail.

    A non-common ground, also called isolated ground, amp does not have the ground paths of both channels tied together. Isolating the ground paths can result in improved sound quality due to lower noise, greater stereo separation and lower "cross talk" between channels. If both channels have their own power supply, that contributes to better sound also.

    SDA speakers use an amplifier's ground path to complete the SDA circuit. Non-common ground amps, without an AI-1 interface, can cause short circuits.



    I have a single power supply, it uses a 2 prong outlet, and the amp has a power transformer for each channel. Does that make it a common ground amp? The days of using a receiver are very long gone for me.
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
  • hearingimparedhearingimpared Banned Posts: 21,473
    edited January 2010
    After opening the cabinets, I found out that I have the SL3000 tweeters, as you had mentioned previously. Time to spend more money on these speakers. I wonder if I can open a line of credit with Polk and get 0% interest for 12 months. I am still waiting for that offer from Polk Audio to come in the mail.






    I have a single power supply, it uses a 2 prong outlet, and the amp has a power transformer for each channel. Does that make it a common ground amp? The days of using a receiver are very long gone for me.

    What amplifier are you using?
    sucks2beme wrote: »
    Crap is a sound signature, isn't it?
    madmax wrote: »
    Nothing like vinyl, thats for sure.
    madmax


    Quotes of the year!!!
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 23,456
    edited January 2010
    I have a single power supply, it uses a 2 prong outlet, and the amp has a power transformer for each channel. Does that make it a common ground amp? The days of using a receiver are very long gone for me.

    If you have a DVM (digital volt meter) with the amp off and speaker cables disconnected you can measure the resistance between the (2) negative terminals. If it reads 0 or very close it a common ground amp.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • PolkMaster1PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2010
    heiney9 wrote: »
    If you have a DVM (digital volt meter) with the amp off and speaker cables disconnected you can measure the resistance between the (2) negative terminals. If it reads 0 or very close it a common ground amp.

    H9

    I have went into my amp to make modifications on the terminals. Without breaking out my DVM, the negative terminals are tied together.
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,108
    edited January 2010
    I have a single power supply, it uses a 2 prong outlet, and the amp has a power transformer for each channel. Does that make it a common ground amp?

    No. What makes it common ground is what I said before.
    I have went into my amp to make modifications on the terminals. Without breaking out my DVM, the negative terminals are tied together.

    Don't assume that you can just do this. You need to check with the manufacturer to see if the amp is common ground. If the person you ask is not familiar with the term "common ground", ask them if both channels share the same ground path.

    If your amp is an isolated ground design, ask the manufacturer if the negative terminals can be tied together.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • hearingimparedhearingimpared Banned Posts: 21,473
    edited January 2010
    I have a single power supply, it uses a 2 prong outlet, and the amp has a power transformer for each channel. Does that make it a common ground amp? The days of using a receiver are very long gone for me.
    What amplifier are you using?

    Again I ask, what amplifier are you using.
    sucks2beme wrote: »
    Crap is a sound signature, isn't it?
    madmax wrote: »
    Nothing like vinyl, thats for sure.
    madmax


    Quotes of the year!!!
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,108
    edited January 2010
    What amplifier are you using?
    Again I ask, what amplifier are you using.

    It must be a secret.:confused:
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • PolkMaster1PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2010
    Again I ask, what amplifier are you using.

    I... I cannot mention it due to national security. OK, if I tell you, it has to be kept between us. No one else can know...

    The Power Amp is the Sony TA-N77 ES.

    Remember, it is a secret!!! Tell no one!
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
  • hearingimparedhearingimpared Banned Posts: 21,473
    edited January 2010
    I... I cannot mention it due to national security. OK, if I tell you, it has to be kept between us. No one else can know...

    The Power Amp is the Sony TA-N77 ES.

    Remember, it is a secret!!! Tell no one!

    Is Sony in the habit of making non-common ground amps?
    sucks2beme wrote: »
    Crap is a sound signature, isn't it?
    madmax wrote: »
    Nothing like vinyl, thats for sure.
    madmax


    Quotes of the year!!!
  • PolkMaster1PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2010
    No. What makes it common ground is what I said before.
    Understood.

    Don't assume that you can just do this. You need to check with the manufacturer to see if the amp is common ground. If the person you ask is not familiar with the term "common ground", ask them if both channels share the same ground path.

    If your amp is an isolated ground design, ask the manufacturer if the negative terminals can be tied together.

    I checked the path on the circuit boards and traced out the path where the negative terminals go into the speaker output terminal board. They are tied together. Based on your explanation (unless I am missing something), this is a common ground amp.

    Thanks Hearing and DarqueKnight to you both for your help and explanations!!!
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,108
    edited January 2010
    Is Sony in the habit of making non-common ground amps?

    Not to my knowledge.

    I have owned two Sony ES power amps (TA-N9000ES, TA-E90ES) and three Sony ES integrated amps ( two TA-F808ES's and one TA-F707ES) and they were all common ground. I can't recall an instance of someone not being able to drive SDA's with a Sony amp because it was non-common ground.

    I am not familiar with the TA-N77.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 23,456
    edited January 2010
    I checked the path on the circuit boards and traced out the path where the negative terminals go into the speaker output terminal board. They are tied together. Based on your explanation (unless I am missing something), this is a common ground amp.

    Thanks Hearing and DarqueKnight to you both for your help and explanations!!!

    Why not use DVM and measure between the negative speaker terminals. Visually tracing a pcb is a PITA. Make sure the amp is powered off. If the DVM reads zero or very close it's common ground.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • PolkMaster1PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2010
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Why not use DVM and measure between the negative speaker terminals. Visually tracing a pcb is a PITA. Make sure the amp is powered off. If the DVM reads zero or very close it's common ground.

    H9

    Basicly, I am being told to get off my lazy **** and use the DVM. :D Damn thing is heavy, but I will satisy Heiney9s need to know this weekend. :p Right now I am enjoying the mortite effect my speakers are delivering. Or do I enjoy talking with you guys even more? I cant tell the difference now.
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 23,456
    edited January 2010
    Basicly, I am being told to get off my lazy **** and use the DVM. :D Damn thing is heavy, but I will satisy Heiney9s need to know this weekend. :p Right now I am enjoying the mortite effect my speakers are delivering. Or do I enjoy talking with you guys even more? I cant tell the difference now.

    Hey man, just trying to help. If you can't, don't want to use the DVM I could care less.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • PolkMaster1PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited January 2010
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Hey man, just trying to help. If you can't, don't want to use the DVM I could care less.

    H9

    I know you are. Its appreciated. I am just teasing with you. I will let you know the results later.
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
  • OherveyOhervey Posts: 1
    edited February 2014
    I am new here and have enjoyed the many notes on the Polk speakers. I do have a question, that I have seen answered differently several times.

    On the double spade interconnect cable are they wired large to large or large to small spade? I know wiring incorrectly can short the amp. Thanks in advance for the answer.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,039
    edited February 2014
    Large to large, small to small.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • New here,I'm pretty heavy into polk sda speakers and have yet heard of anybody talking about pin,pin I.c, love the sound of my sda2 speakers but don't have the cable and can't locate a pin to pin cable,so I guess I'll be making one.can anyone help me locate one? Thanks
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 8,155
    edited June 3
    gimpod wrote: »
    As long as you wire your cable straight through i.e. + to + and - to - you should be fine. The important part is especially if your SDA 1's are blade/blade or the original 3 pin connector is the wire that go's to pin 1 (it will be a different color depending on which speaker left or right), I would connect which ever color wire go's to pin 1 to the + pin on the Neutrik Speakon connector that your putting in your speaker.

    Hope this helps and makes sense.
    F1nut wrote: »
    I realized I made a mistake in my OP that needs to be corrected. The socket I used is the NL4MP-UC not the BAG version.

    This is the one, http://www.neutrik.com/en/speakon/speakon-chassis-connectors/nl4mp-uc
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures, Simaudio 780D DAC
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Modwright LS100, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers
  • xschopxschop Posts: 601
    Where did all the pics go? Or am I in pic time-out again?
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 38,039
    Lots of pics and important info was lost when the format switched to the disaster known as Vanilla.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • xschopxschop Posts: 601
    It's farcical that forum admin can find time to delegate avatar correctness, but cannot ameliorate the basic dysfunctions of the site.

    Hope it is PC to state I like my cables in same fashion as my Shotty.... 12g haha...

    10rewstwcu0d.jpg

  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 14,702
    Use the Wayback Time Machine site to get archived cooies of this thread if they exist. Then you'd see everything
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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