About to purchase, SDA-2B vs. RTA12 vs...?

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Porter
Porter Posts: 34
edited August 2005 in Vintage Speakers
Hello all,

I am a huge fan of the vintage Polk stuff after spending many hours in front of a pair of Monitor 10s at an old friend's house. His sound unbelievable after many, many years of service and are being driven by a B&K power amp.

I am looking at a few different vintage Polk pairs, among them the SDA-2B, the SDA-1, and the RTA12.

I'm going to be driving these with a Denon PMA-2000mkIV-R integrated amp, which is a very powerful 2-channel unit.

These will be replacing an existing set of Paradigm Monitor 7s.

My previous setups included a great 80's hifi rig consisting of a set of Audiolab separates and a pair of Dahlquist DQM-909s.


Any recommendations? Are the SDA-2Bs an upgrade sonically from an older pair of SDA1s? How does the RTA12 stack up, with it's time-aligned tweeter but lack of SDA crossover?

Thanks in advance for your help!


Jason Porter
Atlanta, GA
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited July 2005
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    SDA all the way. The RTAs are very nice speakers, but the SDAs will blow you away. I have the 2Bs and I'm very happy. I believe the 1s are still the better of the two. More drivers, better power handling abilities, etc... Although all that comes with a price and not just $$$, but added weight, needing more power, cost of upgrading the tweeters, cost of replacing the drivers if there's ever a mishap.

    Once you get a pair of nice SDAs, you'll always want to keep a set in the house.

    Noel
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited July 2005
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    You should buy both....but if I was to choose, SDA.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited July 2005
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    i would go with the SDA-1 if i had to choose one of the three. I have the sda1B, 2B and the RTA-12B. Love all three, but SDA rules the day. The 2B are a fine speaker, but lose their presence a bit in a larger room. The SDA 1, even the older one, will outperform it, especially in a larger listening environment. might want to consider picking up the rta 12, especially if it has the peerless tweeter. I currently dont use mine but i refuse to sell them, they have that much sentimental value.
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
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  • Porter
    Porter Posts: 34
    edited July 2005
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    I just noticed the SDA1s are the A variant.

    I think I may get the SDA-2Bs for now, my room is relatively small.

    If I ever need something larger, there's always the SDA SRS 1.2TLs!


    But seriously... you guys think there is that much difference betwen the SDA-2Bs (single tweeter) and the older SDA1A? The SDA2Bs seem to have a nicer cabinet.

    My instinct is that less drivers should provide cleaner, more cohesive sound. Please correct me if I'm wrong in this case.
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  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited July 2005
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    in a smaller environment, the difference will be less. and i have heard people say that the SDA effect tweeter on the older SDA's is definitly something you have to get used to (airy kind of sound). lets look at it this way, you wont go wrong either way, so i wouldnt lose to much sleep on it. as long as you get the sda experience, youll be fine.

    either way though, if they have the sl2000 tweeter (and i'm sure they will) i would definitly get those replaced with polk's silk dome drop in replacement tweeters, call cust service, they'll know what your talking about.
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
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  • Porter
    Porter Posts: 34
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by ohskigod
    in a smaller environment, the difference will be less. and i have heard people say that the SDA effect tweeter on the older SDA's is definitly something you have to get used to (airy kind of sound). lets look at it this way, you wont go wrong either way, so i wouldnt lose to much sleep on it. as long as you get the sda experience, youll be fine.

    either way though, if they have the sl2000 tweeter (and i'm sure they will) i would definitly get those replaced with polk's silk dome drop in replacement tweeters, call cust service, they'll know what your talking about.
    Will do. Thanks for the advice!!
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited July 2005
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    I have my 2Bs set up in a 450-500 sq ft room, which is fairly acoustically friendly, and they perform most admirably with about 100 watts going to them. I'm sure that with your set up, they'll really sound great. Doesn't that Denon have 200 wpc? The 2Bs are rated at 92db sensitivity, so their pretty efficient, but as with all things audio, more power is always better. That statemant is doubly true when it comes to SDAs.

    I can't wait to get mine hooked up to a 40 wpc(pure class A) ASL integrated tube amp. But until then my little ole HK receiver will continue to drive them, and it does a damn fine job at it.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • Porter
    Porter Posts: 34
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by ND13
    Doesn't that Denon have 200 wpc? The 2Bs are rated at 92db sensitivity, so their pretty efficient, but as with all things audio, more power is always better. That statemant is doubly true when it comes to SDAs.
    The Denon mkIV is 80wpc 20hz-20khz at 8 ohm. It's 160wpc into 4ohm. It's a beefy unit, dual monaural according to Denon and weighs about 55lbs. I've enjoyed it a lot, it puts out a lot of current for its design.
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by Porter
    The Denon mkIV is 80wpc 20hz-20khz at 8 ohm. It's 160wpc into 4ohm. It's a beefy unit, dual monaural according to Denon and weighs about 55lbs. I've enjoyed it a lot, it puts out a lot of current for its design.

    According to F1, the 2Bs are 4ohm, so you'll be getting plenty of power to them to make 'em sing.:)
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • Porter
    Porter Posts: 34
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by ND13
    According to F1, the 2Bs are 4ohm, so you'll be getting plenty of power to them to make 'em sing.:)
    Hehe, excellent. :D The Denon does sound best with more difficult loads, too... should be an interesting combination. I may A/B it with an older Carver power amp I have to see how it differs.
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by Porter
    Hehe, excellent. :D The Denon does sound best with more difficult loads, too... should be an interesting combination. I may A/B it with an older Carver power amp I have to see how it differs.

    Which Carver? The right Carver might be the ticket. That's a personal preference , though. I've always liked Carver gear. His vintage gear just looks so "masculine/manly" or something. I've also had Denon gear and no problems there, either.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited July 2005
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    i used a carver m4.0t, was probably a little overkill at 375@8 ohms and 500@4 ohms, but as they say, too much power is better than not enough. the carver did a great job driving the SDA's (both the 1 and 2B's)
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
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  • Porter
    Porter Posts: 34
    edited July 2005
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    Ha! I forgot I traded with a friend about a year ago. It's been sitting in a closet.

    The one I have sitting here is a small one, a TFM-6CB. My other one is the larger TFM-25. I'll have to see if I can get that back from him at some point, LOL.
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited July 2005
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    The 1As are rated at 5ohms. In the addendum to the instruction manual for the 2Bs (right after the change from the 2As) has them listed at greater than 4ohms but the actual final owner's manuals for them rate them at 6ohms.

    You might want to check the dynamic headroom on the Denon. You might be pleasently surprised. A Denon integrated amp (750s) I used to power a set of 2Bs with over 15 years ago was only 80wpc but it had 2db or more of dynamic headroom and ran the 2Bs quite well indeed.
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  • Porter
    Porter Posts: 34
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by BobMcG
    You might want to check the dynamic headroom on the Denon. You might be pleasently surprised. A Denon integrated amp (750s) I used to power a set of 2Bs with over 15 years ago was only 80wpc but it had 2db or more of dynamic headroom and ran the 2Bs quite well indeed.
    Bob,

    The materials I have for the amp do not indicate a figure for dynamic headroom. They do indicate an "amplification factor" of 29db.

    I find it interesting also that the power consumption is listed at 6.0 amps but I've personally seen the amp draw almost 10 amps according to the display on the front of a friend's Monster Power unit.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,801
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by ND13
    According to F1, the 2Bs are 4ohm

    I've been misquoted they are 6 ohms as Bob has stated. :)
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by ND13
    The 2Bs are rated at 92db sensitivity,

    Actually my records indicate the following for the 2Bs:

    EFE = 1 watt 89.7 spl 1w/1m
    = 10 watt 92.7 spl 10w/1m
    = 100 watt 95.7 spl 100w/1m

    So you would say their sensitivity rating is 89.7db. Good, but a long way from 92dbsens.

    Other ratings for the 2Bs:

    Power handling = 30 to 350 watts
    Freq. response = 20 to 26khz
    +\- 3db respon. = 38 to 20khz
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by BobMcG
    Actually my records indicate the following for the 2Bs:

    EFE = 1 watt 89.7 spl 1w/1m
    = 10 watt 92.7 spl 10w/1m
    = 100 watt 95.7 spl 100w/1m

    So you would say they're sensitivity rating is 89.7db. Good, but a long way from 92dbsens.

    Other ratings for the 2Bs:

    Power handling = 30 to 350 watts
    Freq. response = 20 to 26khz
    +\- 3db respon. = 38 to 20khz

    Maybe the info F1 gave me was when I was under the impression that what I have were 2A's, but I can't seem to find the thread where I received the info.

    Jesse might have given the info to me during one of our PM discussions, which I'm sure by now has been deleted. Sorry for any misinformation I might have given out or for misquoting anyone.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited July 2005
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    The SDA2 & SDA 2A were the high efficiency models, 5ohm/92db & 4ohm/92db.

    I also have some marketing material with the whole line for the year, and it doesn't state a model but has the SDA2 @ 4ohm/92db. It doesn't really matter, but thought I 'd share that it existed.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by dorokusai
    The SDA2 & SDA 2A were the high efficiency models, 5ohm/92db & 4ohm/92db.

    I also have some marketing material with the whole line for the year, and it doesn't state a model but has the SDA2 @ 4ohm/92db. It doesn't really matter, but thought I 'd share that it existed.

    Thanks for clearing that up.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,352
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by ND13
    Maybe the info F1 gave me was when I was under the impression that what I have were 2A's, but I can't seem to find the thread where I received the info.


    This thread led me to buying the SDA's you eventually ended up with so I know I had told you they were 2A's.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited July 2005
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    Originally posted by SCompRacer
    This thread led me to buying the SDA's you eventually ended up with so I know I had told you they were 2A's.

    Hey don't worry about it, there wasn't anything meant towards you. I love them, my wife hates them, not because of their size,shape or color, but because I seem to spend more time with them than her lately:p .

    BTW, I'll let you know soon on the other deal;) .
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • Loud & Clear
    Loud & Clear Posts: 1,538
    edited July 2005
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    I've got a mirror imaged pair of RTA12B's that I clearly prefer to my CRS+'s. Just throwing that out there because it seems that almost everyone is of the "SDA or bust" mindset/opinion. And as these speakers are all much older now, some have held up better than others due to how they've been taken care of. I'm willing to bet that there are SDA 2B's, for example, that sound better than my RTA's, but that there are also some 2B's that don't sound as good as my RTA's. If you can't demo them, some of what you get just comes down to luck, imo.

    Two Channel Setup:

    Speakers: Wharfedale Opus 2-3
    Integrated Amp: Krell S-300i
    DAC: Arcam irDac
    Source: iMac
    Remote Control: iPad Mini

    3.2 Home Theater Setup:

    Fronts: Klipsch RP-160M
    Center: Klipsch RP-160M
    Subwoofer: SVS PB12NSD (X 2)
    AVR: Yamaha Aventage RX-A2030
    Blu Ray: Sony BDP-S790
    TV Source: DirecTV Genie
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  • Porter
    Porter Posts: 34
    edited August 2005
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    Well, after spending some time with the new speakers, I have to say I'm quite pleased with them.

    When I initially set them up, there was some harshness in the upper midrange and mid-treble, but that seems to have worked itself out and everything sounds great now. The speakers did not come with the interconnect cable and I suspect they had been run for a long time without it.

    Also, the imaging was somewhat strange at first, with "holes" in the soundstage just to the right and left of center, but that also seems to have worked its way out, and the soundstage is full and rich now. It has also broadened well beyond the speakers while sounding totally natural, which is a pleasing artifact of SDA processing.

    I have a bit of 14ga twisted pair speaker wire (Monster commercial) standing in until I find the time to make a proper interconnect cable, but it seems to work fine for the time being.

    I definitely prefer these to the Paradigms that I was using, though they don't have quite the sonic impact of my old Dahlquist DQM-909s. I'm suspecting I may get more out of these with a bigger amp, I may test them out with something Class A if I can swing it.

    Thanks for your advice guys, I'm pleased with my purchase so far.


    Regards,

    Jason Porter


    System:
    Source - Music Hall CD-25 cd player
    Amp - Denon PMA-2000mkIV-R integrated amp
    Interconnects - Straightwire Crescendo
    Speaker Cables - Straightwire Black Silc
    Loudspeakers - Polk Audio SDA-2 B
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited August 2005
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    Porter,

    Glad you like the 2Bs. I did run a pair of 2Bs years ago using an amp with 30watts of class A power and they liked it. So did I. :D
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