Is it Time

RSTERN · February 2005

I was thinking of upgrading my yamaha to a denon 3805 and geting either 2910 or 3910 dvd player to. But for a litter more I could have an Outlaw 950/ 7100 combo.
The yamaha does ok for ht, But I like the sound of the denon better for stereo.
Is it time to go to seperates? Would it be worth the extra for the outlaw.
Thanks
Rob Stern

John K. · February 2005

Rob, if you want the more up to date features of the 3805, then it would be a fine buy, but both the Yamaha and Denon receivers are transparent in amplifying the sound. When all factors, especially loudness, are adjusted to be equal there's no audible difference between them(or the Outlaw combo for that matter).

Early B. · February 2005

Is it time to go to seperates?

YES. Outlaws would be a great choice.

dorokusai · February 2005

Originally posted by John K.
Rob, if you want the more up to date features of the 3805, then it would be a fine buy, but both the Yamaha and Denon receivers are transparent in amplifying the sound. When all factors, especially loudness, are adjusted to be equal there's no audible difference between them(or the Outlaw combo for that matter).

First cables make no difference, now apparently equipment doesn't make a difference either.

You're a crackpot.

organ · February 2005

If you're happy with the overall sound quality but want more power. Try an external amp if your receiver have pre outs. Should be cheaper than getting the Outlaw seperates. But I'm sure the Outlaw will have better sound.

Maurice

RSTERN · February 2005

I think it's time for a change fom the yamaha. Would like to the new surround formats and also have the variable cross-over. The yamaha is set at 100hz I belive and non-adjustable. [r-v1103]. I would have to look a manual again.
I guess the question is denon or outlaw?
Thanks
Rob Stern

cfrizz · February 2005

You could split the difference and get the Denon receiver & an Outlaw amp. That way you will have both the power & the processing you want.

RSTERN · February 2005

That would be nice but would go over the budget. If I did this I would not be able to get the dvd player. Might start at some used stuff. Don't upgrade very much, had the yamaha since 98. Just want to make sure I'll get something I will want to keep for awhile.
Thanks
Rob Stern

Toxis · February 2005

If the Outlaw 950 has all the features you need, go for it. I am going with the 3805 as a pre/pro simply because I need 3 comp. vid. in (950 only has 2), I want comp. vid. upconversion, a sexy looking unit (which the Outlaw is not IMO) and when I upgrade the pre/pro, I've got a killer secondary system receiver.

F1nut · February 2005

Originally posted by John K.
Rob, if you want the more up to date features of the 3805, then it would be a fine buy, but both the Yamaha and Denon receivers are transparent in amplifying the sound. When all factors, especially loudness, are adjusted to be equal there's no audible difference between them(or the Outlaw combo for that matter).

Enough already!

Doro's right, you are a crack pot. :rolleyes:

RSTERN · June 2005

Ok dvd player took a dump, Went to store and priced denon 3805 and 3910. $2700. Wife said no, Try to keep it under 2000. So for the dvd will the picture quailty be that much better with the 3910 over the 2910 or even the 2900? (t.v. Mits 65)
Try to save as much as possible to get a outlaw 7100.

Thanks
Rob

MacLeod · June 2005

Originally posted by John K.
Rob, if you want the more up to date features of the 3805, then it would be a fine buy, but both the Yamaha and Denon receivers are transparent in amplifying the sound. When all factors, especially loudness, are adjusted to be equal there's no audible difference between them(or the Outlaw combo for that matter).

I agree with this to an extent. One wont sound "warmer" or have "tighter bass" over the other. The difference is in power.

Seperates would make much more power cleanly which makes them a much better choice to power speakers as opposed to receivers which cant even make their own rated power without being struck by lightning.

Airplay355 · June 2005

I'm gonna sell my gear and buy a JVC HTIB. Those are just as good right? I mean c'mon 100 watts is 100 watts

MacLeod · June 2005

Except that JVC aint making 100 watts!

I used to believe those ratings on the sides of receivers. Hell a Sony receiver for $200 that makes 100 watts x6!! What a great deal. Then I added up the numbers, applied a little Ohm's Law and looked at the fine print. 15x6?! WTF?!

Airplay355 · June 2005

Yea but watt's don't actually effect the sound

MacLeod · June 2005

Right!

Actually, you could run your LSi9's off your television's speakers "outputs". Wouldnt sound any different!

gregure · June 2005

If you are are looking into the 3805, I'd wait a month to see how the new 4806 performs. At 130wpc and THX Utlra 2 Certified, it appears to be a doozy. It's also got HDMI and DVI switching, plus upconversion of all lesser connections to HDMI/DVI. That, my friend, will carry you into the future in a way the Outlaws would not. Of course, it also carries a hefty price tag ($3300) but it is just a suggestion.

Toxis · June 2005

Originally posted by Airplay355
Yea but watt's don't actually effect the sound

They don't effect dynamics? Interesting...

heiney9 · June 2005

Originally posted by John K.
Rob, if you want the more up to date features of the 3805, then it would be a fine buy, but both the Yamaha and Denon receivers are transparent in amplifying the sound. When all factors, especially loudness, are adjusted to be equal there's no audible difference between them(or the Outlaw combo for that matter).

Oh man I could have a field day with this. But if that's what you think than so be it. I couldn't disagree more. And the popular opinion is against you and you may need a hearing aid, but if that's your position then go with it. But your missing alot. How does that saying go......

Those who don't know, don't know they don't know. You need to be in the KNOW.

H9

beardog03 · June 2005

I just replaced my Yammy with a Denon 3802..

anybody know what the diff is between the 3802 and the 3805...?

RSTERN · June 2005

Right now looking to replace the dvd player first.
Is the 3910 worth the extra $$ over the 2910 for the picture quaility? How does the 2900 compare to these two?
The reciever/amp will come later. Right now I using a old dvd player and picture quailty is not that great on a big screen.
Thanks
Rob

RSTERN · June 2005

Denon 2900 on the way. Now for the wainting.
Rob

polkatese · June 2005

Originally posted by beardog03
I just replaced my Yammy with a Denon 3802..

anybody know what the diff is between the 3802 and the 3805...?

90% is the same, DPLIIx is the main difference between 02 and 05. Also, 02 came out in 2001/02, with 5 channels, a lil less wattage per channel (not that you will notice).

Rob,
have fun with 2900.

bvette94 · June 2005

I have a denon 2900 and a 55in hdtv mitsubishi and i love the pic quality you wont be disapointed add a power conditioner and the pic quality will improve greatly. enjoy

aaharvel · June 2005

I too think John K. is way off base- but isn't there a more mature way to handle this then by calling someone a crack-pot?

heiney9 · June 2005

Originally posted by aaharvel
I too think John K. is way off base- but isn't there a more mature way to handle this then by calling someone a crack-pot?

Better than a Crack-head :eek: :eek:

J/K

H9

MacLeod · June 2005

I think its because people think we're claiming all amps are the same. Of course theyre not.

Some amps are built better, with better components, put out much more power, have better features and so on. All we're saying is that, if judged equally (i.e. same power, no EQ's or processors) the sonic differences will not be audible.

Ive noticed though that nothing gets people madder than this subject. We have this debate in car audio as well and boy, you talk about deep, seething rage. You can almost see the forehead veins popping out!

aaharvel · June 2005

"We have this debate in car audio as well and boy, you talk about deep, seething rage. You can almost see the forehead veins popping out!"

My question is, why does an internet DISCUSSION forum chap people's asses to the point of being rude over stupid $hit? I've had some people get pissed off at me on here for no sensible reason whatsoever- other than just to troll the forums (they know who they are). I know the moderators have been noticing it as well; and it's getting worse.

ok i'm done bitching now.

MacLeod · June 2005

Yeah, youre always gonna have a couple keyboard commandos that like to talk ****.

Normally, in the real world, youd just push their face thru the back of their head and call it a day. Online tho you have to overlook them I guess. Theyre the minority tho so I dont let them cause me too much grief.

heiney9 · June 2005

Originally posted by MacLeod
Yeah, youre always gonna have a couple keyboard commandos that like to talk ****.

Normally, in the real world, youd just push their face thru the back of their head and call it a day. Online tho you have to overlook them I guess. Theyre the minority tho so I dont let them cause me too much grief.

Sometimes people say things in text under the guise of annonimity that they would'nt say in mixed company. I'm probably guilty of that as well. Most of it comes from not reading the text amd interpreting it the same as the writer. It's all in the intperpretation most of the time. If you call someone a descriptive name it's hard to take any other way that it's written. We all need to be more careful how we choose words and construct sentences if we want to get our 'absolute' point across. I try real hard not to take things out of context. If I do, I just say my piece and move on.

Now I have something to say to Maccloud.

Sorry but I don't agree...there are definetly differences in amps/rec in sound no matter if they are the same power etc. I've heard them, they are there. There are differences in Dac's, Cd players, speakers, dvd players. If you don't hear them then OK, but don't make a blanket statement about there being no difference. Just my opinion and many others too.

H9

Edit:Forget the edit....I'm an idiot

MacLeod · June 2005

If you take amp A and amp B, hook them up to the same speakers and set them to the same power and turn off all their EQ's and sound processors, you wont hear a difference. This has been proven in double blind tests conducted by audio magazines, editors, engineers and conventions for over 20 years and NOBODY has EVER done it.

But this doesnt mean all amps are identical. For instance, you take a 100x2 and a 40x2 there will be differences in the sound due to more power from the bigger amp but you wont hear one be warmer or have smoother highs. Those are characteristics of speakers not amps.

Likewise, you take a Denon 110x7 receiver with top notch processors and EQ's and compare it to a cheap RCA receiver there will be a difference in sound due to the better EQ's and processors and more power. Now these can be warmer or smoother because they each have different EQ settings, processors and soundfields. But a simple gain block amplifier with no EQ's and putting out 100 watts will sound no different than another gain block amplifier with no EQ's putting out 100 watts.

Is it Time

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