Trouble with my 2.3TL's.

headrottheadrott Posts: 5,338
edited November 3 in Vintage Speakers
Ok,

First I want to stipulate that all of the drivers (MW6510's) have been JB Welded since I've owned the speakers, and I have checked to make sure magnet shift isn't the problem because both the left and right speaker drivers move just as freely.

That said, I was listening to Peter Gabriel's "US" (the mini-LP) version last night and noticed that there is a scraping sound coming from the right 2.3TL on the really deep bass parts. I listened to an album 2 nights before and did not hear anything like this at all.

My first thought was that one of the magnets had shifted on a MW6510, but I am sure that's not the case as they all move freely in both the left and right speakers.

I need help diagnosing what could cause a scraping sound on the really deep bass portions of the music, if it's not magnet shift. Any ideas of what else could cause this sound? It only happens on the right 2.3TL.

Please ask questions if you need more information to help diagnose the problem. I am starting at the speaker. What sounds like magnet shift, but isn't?

Thanks all for the help. I appreciate it.

Edit: Paging Mr. @F1nut. B)
Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\

"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
Post edited by headrott on
«1

Comments

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 11,154
    edited November 3
    Check the drivers for spider issues would be on my list Greg as well as the passive. I'm not sure the passive would cause a scrapping sound but check them all.
  • headrottheadrott Posts: 5,338
    edited November 3
    I though, they are basically impossible to get.
    Post edited by KennethSwauger on
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,432
    If you turn it down just a touch, does the noise still occur? I have found that if pushed too hard, my 1.2TL’s will also make that noise, but it only happened at extreme volume on movie soundtracks. I added a REL subwoofer to take the stress off the Polk’s, and have no more issues.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with PS Audio NuWave Phono converter, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 525a CD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 Blu-ray , Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 11,154
    I know i have a standing search for any that pop up. You and i will be throwing the bank account at it if they do.
  • headrottheadrott Posts: 5,338
    edited November 3
    If you turn it down just a touch, does the noise still occur? I have found that if pushed too hard, my 1.2TL’s will also make that noise, but it only happened at extreme volume on movie soundtracks. I added a REL subwoofer to take the stress off the Polk’s, and have no more issues.

    It does seem to do it less if I turn it down, John. But, I have listened to the Gabriel album countless times without issue on either speaker (at the same volume).

    I have never, ever heard the 2.3TL's make that sound until last night.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,515
    Are your crossovers and inductors original or have they been upgraded? Is it possible that an aftermarket inductor has become a little loose? Or another component? Maybe part of the wiring harness is just loose enough to rub on something else, causing a sound similar to magnet shift or other driver issues.
  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,243
    edited November 3
    I had an inductor lead come loose once, wasnt the solder but the lead itself broke....obviously it was fatigued already but showed up months later.

    How does the push-test look? Double check the top and bottom cap mounting screws inside, moisture changes could produce a slight leak if not tight.

    Don't discount magnet shift yet, push on the cone near the top, then on the bottom, near the same distance from the edge, could be barely shifted.

    Swap dimensional drivers and see if it follows to the left.

    Also, do the battery test, see if all drivers are connected....and in phase.
  • motorhead43026motorhead43026 Posts: 2,798
    Push on the passive, if no scraping is heard on the MW's then they should be fine. I am in the camp of a broken spider as mentioned by Pit.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk Signature S60's;Cables: Wireworld Eclipse IC; Audioquest Big Sur IC; LAT International speaker cables; PS Audio AC-3 power cords, all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

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  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,243
    Push on the passive, if no scraping is heard on the MW's then they should be fine. I am in the camp of a broken spider as mentioned by Pit.

    Not saying that wouldn't be the cause, but would the scraping be more evident with the cones moving inward? I dont know, just asking.
  • EmlynEmlyn Posts: 2,152
    With the drivers moving freely by hand without making the same scratching sound, my guess is it's either something like an internal cable has fallen down to interfere with the passive radiator or a part on it has come loose. I had a problem with a pair of 1Cs after I moved them some years ago. That was simply a wire loose inside.
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    3. Polk LSiM703; Pioneer Elite SC97 receiver; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,243
    edited November 3
    My CS350 made a scratching sound, one of the drivers I guess sagged or maybe a magnet shift, but rotating it cured the scratching...was just enough to make the noise some of the time but not that evident when pushing on it.

    The battery test should show if they are connected...I would check that first before removing a driver only for a confirmation...in case one lead pulls loose when removing.
  • headrottheadrott Posts: 5,338
    Viking64 wrote: »
    Are your crossovers and inductors original or have they been upgraded? Is it possible that an aftermarket inductor has become a little loose? Or another component? Maybe part of the wiring harness is just loose enough to rub on something else, causing a sound similar to magnet shift or other driver issues.

    Yep, all upgraded to Clarity Cap ESA's, Duelund Cast resistors, and Jantzen inductors. I will have to open up the right 2.3TL and have a look. I hope it's not a spider issue on the passive.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • headrottheadrott Posts: 5,338
    gmcman wrote: »
    I had an inductor lead come loose once, wasnt the solder but the lead itself broke....obviously it was fatigued already but showed up months later.

    How does the push-test look? Double check the top and bottom cap mounting screws inside, moisture changes could produce a slight leak if not tight.

    Don't discount magnet shift yet, push on the cone near the top, then on the bottom, near the same distance from the edge, could be barely shifted.

    Swap dimensional drivers and see if it follows to the left.

    Also, do the battery test, see if all drivers are connected....and in phase.

    A couple years ago I replaced the original caps with new wood ones. It is possible that the screws holding them could have loosened over the last couple years. Thanks for the idea.

    I will try the dimensional driver swap after trying other ideas.

    I have actually never done "The battery test" on a full speaker (only on a single driver). Am I hooking up the positive and negative leads of the (9V) battery to the binding post? That would make sense to me, but want to make sure. Thanks again.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,243
    I use a 1.5V battery, works perfect. If you have a DMM the leads with alligator clips make it easier.

  • Dennis GardnerDennis Gardner Posts: 4,756
    I had my SDAs make this type of sound just prior to one of the drivers jumping out of the gap and freezing in place totally extended forward. It was when driving them at very high volumes with the bass heavy Brian Bromberg "Bass Face". I actually think it was the voice coil bottoming out on the back of the magnet plate.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
  • headrottheadrott Posts: 5,338
    Thanks for all the replies. I pushed both passives in and all drivers react the same by being pushed out on both speakers with absolutely no scraping sound at all.

    I have yet to open the right 2.3TL, but I did play a little more music and looking at both the left and right 2.3TL's, I will say without a doubt that the right 2.3TL (SDA drivers, especially) drivers seem to move in and out much more that the left 2,3TL. Like there is too much voltage going to the drivers. That would lead me to think that something is weird with the inductor(s). Am I mistaken in this?

    And, if there is too much voltage to the drivers (particularly the SDA drivers) then they could be bottoming out and producing the scratchy sound.

    I am just thinking off the top of my head (using all your advice). Please let me know what you all think. Thanks again.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 11,154
    Yes if they are moving out much more that would be logical that they could be nearing or exceeding their Xmax. As for the voltage I don't know. If it were a voltage issue I'd think that would be amplifier problem.

    Logicly speaking ;) :*
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,432
    Swap the left and right and see if the trouble follows the signal. If it does, it is the amp...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with PS Audio NuWave Phono converter, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 525a CD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 Blu-ray , Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds

  • headrottheadrott Posts: 5,338
    I pulled both crossover boards, and they look fine. Now if it's the amp, I'm going to be pissed.

    I will swap out the MIT cables and see what the result is.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,508
    edited November 4
    Could very well be an air leak from loose end cap nuts.
    Post edited by F1nut on
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • headrottheadrott Posts: 5,338
    edited November 4
    I did discover a loose bolt on one of the bottom end caps Jesse. I will tighten it down and see if that fixes the problem. Thanks for your input.

    I didn't realize how much of a difference once end cap bolt would make. WOW!

    Now I gotta tighten that bolt, put the crossover boards back in, put the passives back in (glad it wasn't one of those!) and hook up everything and see what happens.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 40,508
    Install lock washers on all of them and the nuts will not come loose again.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 6,153
    Can you tell if it's just one driver, or all during the heavy excursion period? The suspension on one or more could be worn or detached, which will allow over-extension beyond their design parameters.
    Also, if you replaced the sub-bass drive inductors with lower resistance units, the dimensional woofers will move quite a bit more than the stock inductors allowed.
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  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,243
    edited November 4
    Did you perform the battery test yet? Only asking since you didn't mention it. This is just to cover that base. If one of the drivers isn't connected that would allow for extra movement for the others.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,432
    Did you swap the left/right signals yet?
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with PS Audio NuWave Phono converter, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 525a CD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 Blu-ray , Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds

  • Dennis GardnerDennis Gardner Posts: 4,756
    Man..... you guys are all vampires! 3-5AM? I'm glad that someone is here to give service tips 24/7!
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
  • headrottheadrott Posts: 5,338
    F1nut wrote: »
    Install lock washers on all of them and the nuts will not come loose again.

    I have to tighten the tops too. I will get some lock washers first. Tightening the tops and bottoms definitely helped stop the drivers from bottoming out when I listened earlier. Thanks to all that helped. I will get some lock-washers, install them, re-tighten the tops and bopttoms and give another listen.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • headrottheadrott Posts: 5,338
    There is still a rattling sound coming from at least the right speaker due to the caps (upper) not tightened all the way down. The scratching noise has stopped, however. I will need to actually look at the drivers while they are moving to see if the move less than they did previously. I believe once the caps screws are all tightened down, the speakers will function as they should. I will report back when I am done. Thanks again all.
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:

    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • gmcmangmcman Posts: 1,243
    How quick do the drivers return when you do the push test?

  • leftwinger57leftwinger57 Posts: 2,889
    Hey just an idea to throw out there. When re foaming a surround all say center to prevent voice coil rub. Maybe not a surround issue being butyl but a vc going bad, could this be a possibility ?....Lew
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

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