McIntosh MC 275 or Bob Carver Crimson 275

oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 1,985
Considering one of these to delve into the whole tube thing.

Speakers I'd use for starters, 2B standard or SDS SRS.
Perhaps something different down the road for speakers.

Room size, cables/other items to be addressed later.
Just curious on the rooms opinion for these 2 choices of amps. Positives/negatives?

Opinions would be appreciated.

Thanks
David
«13456711

Comments

  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 16,077
    Either is a good choice. Pick the one your heart desires most, or that you could resell easiest if you don’t like it.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,398
    edited October 29
    McIntosh has the better pedigree obviously, but I think you will get more bang for the buck out of the Carver. I have run my amps against MC600's and found my amps to sound as good as the Macs.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with PS Audio NuWave Phono converter, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 525a CD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 Blu-ray , Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds

  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 1,985
    And that's most of it right there. ^^
  • verbverb Posts: 3,670
    The Carvers are on sale right now. Got a email from them today. About 3 weeks back ordered. Apparently they’re selling quite well!
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, VTL 2.5 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, Cambridge CD transport, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated, Auris BluMe, Polk TSi200's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 1,985
    I saw that a few days ago.

    I like the Mc visuals, Crimson not bad either. Both are well built and has an impressive history.
    I do like smooth like lows, clear mids and gentle highs although that's probably more a speaker thing, room set and who knows what else.

    I guess I could go back to Parasound "which worked for me" audio wise but the whole tube thing is what I'd like to try.

  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 12,513
    Sound wise, IMO? Carver. I was really impressed with them. Yes, I have heard both. FWIW.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 1,985
    Thanks Tom..

  • verbverb Posts: 3,670
    oldrocker wrote: »
    I saw that a few days ago.

    I like the Mc visuals, Crimson not bad either. Both are well built and has an impressive history.
    I do like smooth like lows, clear mids and gentle highs although that's probably more a speaker thing, room set and who knows what else.

    I guess I could go back to Parasound "which worked for me" audio wise but the whole tube thing is what I'd like to try.

    I'm with ya. Got the VTL pre and was amazed at how good it sounds! Next step in my journey, tube power amp! :smile:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, VTL 2.5 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, Cambridge CD transport, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated, Auris BluMe, Polk TSi200's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 16,077
    oldrocker wrote: »
    Thanks Tom..

    There’s a fella in Nothern IL who could arrange a demo session with the Crimsons for you if you want....

    Hit me up and I can pass along his info :smile:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,354
    edited October 29
    If the modern MC275s just didn't have green tubes. ;)

    j8cs8aj0wl2c.png
    a7nglovcdy46.png

    In (some) seriousness, I like the no-nonsense approach, and the price of that current Carver. In 2018, Mac is selling lifestyle products. I mean, they have been since at least the early 1960s, but to my way of thinking they've kind of jumped the shark as a hifi manufacturer. Carver jumped the shark a long, long time ago, but age has seemingly mellowed the man and now he's back on the good side of the shark, it seems to me. :)


    I do wish that these brute-ish amplifiers didn't use the darned Kinkless Tetrodes (KT-****), though. I mean, I realize that they have to (i.e., to get the kind of power output from only one push-pull pair of tubes per channel), but they're just such souless sounding vacuum tubes, compared to a DHT -- or even something like the 7591.

    Sigh -- I wish Mac'd bring back the MC-225. Heck of an amplifier -- I'd even put up with green tube lighting. :)

    cd5rel3lk1ik.jpg


  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,398
    edited October 29
    The KT120’s have lots of soul... and I have nearly 400 watts of it.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with PS Audio NuWave Phono converter, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 525a CD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 Blu-ray , Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds

  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 1,985
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    If the modern MC275s just didn't have green tubes. ;)

    j8cs8aj0wl2c.png
    a7nglovcdy46.png

    In (some) seriousness, I like the no-nonsense approach, and the price of that current Carver. In 2018, Mac is selling lifestyle products. I mean, they have been since at least the early 1960s, but to my way of thinking they've kind of jumped the shark as a hifi manufacturer. Carver jumped the shark a long, long time ago, but age has seemingly mellowed the man and now he's back on the good side of the shark, it seems to me. :)


    I do wish that these brute-ish amplifiers didn't use the darned Kinkless Tetrodes (KT-****), though. I mean, I realize that they have to (i.e., to get the kind of power output from only one push-pull pair of tubes per channel), but they're just such souless sounding vacuum tubes, compared to a DHT -- or even something like the 7591.

    Sigh -- I wish Mac'd bring back the MC-225. Heck of an amplifier -- I'd even put up with green tube lighting. :)

    cd5rel3lk1ik.jpg


    To clarify, the green tubes are not my favorite. Too much green, not enough of the classic blue. Other than that I do like the rest of it.

    I've also looked at the MC302 & 312 although not tubes, these have the visuals I've always wanted.

    I really like those big blue meters and at my age, one of these could be a one and done for me.

    Then again, that Carver amp, something about it is speaking to me.

    Thanks for the input all...





  • tonybtonyb Posts: 29,919
    Both amps certainly have the beauty to them. My only concern would be the speakers you plan on using with either. Certain bigger harder to drive speakers may sound a bit less dynamic than one would be accustomed to.

    Both very nice amps though. You should be happy with either.
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 1,985
    Taking a road trip tomorrow with the daughter to Champaign Il, listen to both amps at a place called Glenn Poors Audio.

    Tony, yep the speaker issue is a concern I'll tackle that down the road.

    For now I'll probably just use my Polk 2b standards or my SDA SRS.

    Should be interesting..
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 11,113
    edited October 30
    Glenn Poors is the shiznit. Many many years ago we had one in Normal Il. I bought my Carver gear from them then. Too bad I didn't have the wheel barrow full of cash to buy the Silver Seven tube amps then. GAWD those made me want to sell illegal items to acquire them.

    GREAT FOLKS there Dave enjoy!
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,354
    edited October 30
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    ...Too bad I didn't have the wheel barrow full of cash to buy the Silver Seven tube amps then. GAWD those made me want to sell illegal items to acquire them.

    GREAT FOLKS there Dave enjoy!
    A kidney!? You coulda sold a kidney. That's legal, AFAIK. Not on eBAY, but there are other marketplaces... or so I have heard. ;)



    In all seriousness, and with zero experience with the Carver amplifier, my armchair opinion is that the Carver product is the way to go.

    This isn't a rational opinion, with one exception: the price. I'd be willing to bet that the Carver amplifier nets out to be the better value -- even if it may well not hold its resale value like the Mac hardware will.

    Any of all y'all who haven't used a good transformer coupled amplifier (i.e., one using really good OPTs) -- you may have a very different take on how easy or hard a given loudspeaker is to drive after you do. Despite the myriad and painstakingly documented "shortcomings" of transformers... there's a lot to be said in favor, practically speaking, of using transformers for impedance matching. :)

    Now, all of this poppycock and drivel having been typed by me -- I will add that the value of the Carver amplifier is gonna hinge, IMO, on the quality of the OPTs. I am cautiously optimistic, but Mac may well have the edge in that regard.

    I gots nothin' else of value to offer on this topic, so I'll stop now... but, were it me, I'd be lookin' hard at that Carver amp.

    (not that one will go wrong with a 275... and I think that tube monitor LED nonsense can be turned off so that the tubes glow orange as the good Lord and Lee DeForest intended) :)
  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 1,985
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Glenn Poors is the shiznit. Many many years ago we had one in Normal Il. I bought my Carver gear from them then. Too bad I didn't have the wheel barrow full of cash to buy the Silver Seven tube amps then. GAWD those made me want to sell illegal items to acquire them.

    GREAT FOLKS there Dave enjoy!

    Phew, thanks for the info. I'm a little nervous as I've never been to the place. Didn't even know it existed until yesterday.

    Wish you was close and had the day off tomorrow to join me there so I don't pull a Homer...

  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 16,077
    oldrocker wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Glenn Poors is the shiznit. Many many years ago we had one in Normal Il. I bought my Carver gear from them then. Too bad I didn't have the wheel barrow full of cash to buy the Silver Seven tube amps then. GAWD those made me want to sell illegal items to acquire them.

    GREAT FOLKS there Dave enjoy!

    Phew, thanks for the info. I'm a little nervous as I've never been to the place. Didn't even know it existed until yesterday.

    Wish you was close and had the day off tomorrow to join me there so I don't pull a Homer...

    He is "close" as he's in Bloomington Normal IL, but I doubt he's got the day off.... Ivan never takes a day off work :smile:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 1,985
    I thought he mentioned that at your house that day.

    I can solve the nerves by just leaving the wallet at home.. :D
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 11,113
    edited October 30
    oldrocker wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Glenn Poors is the shiznit. Many many years ago we had one in Normal Il. I bought my Carver gear from them then. Too bad I didn't have the wheel barrow full of cash to buy the Silver Seven tube amps then. GAWD those made me want to sell illegal items to acquire them.

    GREAT FOLKS there Dave enjoy!

    Phew, thanks for the info. I'm a little nervous as I've never been to the place. Didn't even know it existed until yesterday.

    Wish you was close and had the day off tomorrow to join me there so I don't pull a Homer...

    I am very close as Dan mentioned but i just used vacation days both Friday and Monday and my co-worker is off tomorrow or i would be there Dave.
    You will never have to twist my arm to go audio shopping.

    Shut up Dan :D :D :D
  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 1,985
    It's all good.

    Daughter is quite excited for another road trip which is worth it to me!! <3

    So who knows, will be interesting.

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 11,113
    All i have to say Dave is be very careful that place is "Toys R Us" for people like us..... too much of a good thing!
    Go in for one walk out with maxed put CC :p
  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 1,985
    Plan is to see the place, get advise, go get some lunch and then return.

    Oh boy, tomorrow comes quick... B)
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 19,354
    oldrocker wrote: »
    I thought he mentioned that at your house that day.

    I can solve the nerves by just leaving the wallet at home.. :D

    Heh -- you've still got kidneys, and they probably have a scalpel, some alcohol, and some ice and a cooler.
  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 1,985
    Kidneys are slightly pickled at this stage of life...
  • EndersShadowEndersShadow Posts: 16,077
    oldrocker wrote: »
    Kidneys are slightly pickled at this stage of life...

    Ask your daughter how much she loves you........ :wink:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,398
    oldrocker wrote: »
    Kidneys are slightly pickled at this stage of life...

    Not to worry... Hannibal Lecter likes them that way. >:)
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with PS Audio NuWave Phono converter, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 two channel preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 525a CD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 Blu-ray , Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds

  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,493
    What about kid knees?

    shlao281mkwd.jpg
  • oldrockeroldrocker Posts: 1,985
    Humor, I needed it.... B)
  • verbverb Posts: 3,670
    edited October 30
    Got this yesterday via e-mail from Frank Malitz, CEO of Carver, after I requested information through their website:
    1hivk9pq3cp7.png
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Micro Seiki MB14 TT, VTL 2.5 Pre, Marantz CD6006 CDP, Conrad Johnson MF2300A Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, AQ Diamondback (version 1) RCA IC's, MIT Terminator2 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, Cambridge CD transport, Marantz AMP-1, Acoustic Technologies Classic Speakers, Polk PSWi225 wireless sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated, Auris BluMe, Polk TSi200's
    Living Room: Pioneer SX-N30 Network Receiver, Pioneer PD10AE CD Player, Furman M8-LX Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi Subwoofer
«13456711
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